@Mizukage Yoda
In that kind of source, I guess that Satele would be shifting worlds with simple gestures.
In fact, the depiction which you cited contradicts with ground realities of G-canon itself as per which Anakin is inferior to Yoda and Sidious (G-canon incarnation). And even the latter two doesn't have matching display of power in comparison to this particular depiction of raw power of Anakin and in EU sources nonetheless.
Seriously, as per depictions in high budget mediums, Anakin have nothing on Satele except maybe in martial aspects of combat.
Therefore, as per depictions in high budget mediums of both characters, Satele is likely to utterly shit on Anakin! No contest here.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol.
By ROTS Anakin is trouncing foes like Dooku. Mace Windu himself states that Anakin is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive. So if he can be argued to be the most powerful Jedi in its golden age, the idea that Satele Shan in her knighthood could defeat him is downright laughable.
Make this Grand Master Satele Shan and she goes down with a much harder fight.
@Legend
You don't get to decide what is and is not canon. And considering the entirety of the SWTOR universe is C-canon (in other words on par with the comic link I just posted) that feat of Anakin's is just as canon as your precious Satele's very existence.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
By ROTS Anakin is trouncing foes like Dooku.
Based on the showing you cited here, Anakin should utterly demolish Dooku even with his sheer Force abilities.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Mace Windu himself states that Anakin is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive. So if he can be argued to be the most powerful Jedi in its golden age, the idea that Satele Shan in her knighthood could defeat him is downright laughable.
Satele have much more impressive showings then Anakin in (type of) mediums in which both characters are directly comparable. In this context, Satele is supposed to be superior to Anakin in general.
Also, Satele (Jedi Knight) utterly humiliated Malgus with her Force abilities, who in turn, survived collapse of two buildings around his landing position with his Force abilities and proceeded to defeat another immensely formidable opposition even in a state of being heavily injured. This event indicates that even examples of incredible display of raw power are not helping your case in this debate. Anakin may not stand a chance against Malgus, let alone Satele.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Make this Grand Master Satele Shan and she goes down with a much harder fight.
Satele & Malgus > Anakin
Deal with it.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
@LegendYou don't get to decide what is and is not canon. And considering the entirety of the SWTOR universe is C-canon (in other words on par with the comic link I just posted) that feat of Anakin's is just as canon as your precious Satele's very existence.
However, Malgus's performance against immensely formidable opposition not long after the events depicted in Hope trailer is actually favoring my position in this debate.
As per your reasoning, Galen should have utterly dominated Vader in single combat but the latter didn't turn out to be walk in the park for the former. Galen did defeat Vader but after decent effort.
However, Anakin, doesn't have luxury of being Galen in this particular hypothetical duel.
Re: RotS Anakin vs Satele Shan (Hope trailer)
Originally posted by Master Han
My personal opinion would be:1. Anakin
2. Shan
3. Anakin
1. Satele is also extraordinarily skilled in martial aspects of combat; apparently considerably superior than several individuals identified in literature as among finest swordsmen in history but comparatively fall short in visual depictions in high budget mediums, thus making a direct comparison possible in visual context.
2. Can block lightsaber strike with bare hands (Revealing that Satele is not helpless even in most dire situations of combat).
Their is no guarantee that Anakin can win in any aspect of this encounter.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is apparent from canonical revelations that this particular encounter have circumstances attached to it. And Anakin didn't actually WTFpwn Dooku with his Force abilities; never managed to.
Doesn't matter he wtf pwned Dooku with his saber.
Based on the showing you cited here, Anakin should utterly demolish Dooku even with his sheer Force abilities.
No he shouldn't Dooku casually topples a massive crane in TCWs video game.
Windu may have been referring to Anakin's potential but he apparently worded his perception in a more vague sense. Characters in Star Wars are just as much prone to inaccuracy as people are in real life about stuff.
No he wasn't.
"We—" Obi-Wan shook his head helplessly. "We don't keep
secrets from each other."
"You must keep this one." Mace laced his fingers together land
squeezed until his knuckles crackled like blasterfire. "Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he is still getting stronger. But he is not stable. You know it. We all do. It is why he cannot be given Mastership. We must keep him off the Council, despite his extraordinary gifts. And Jedi prophecy... is not absolute. The less he
has to do with Palpatine, the better."
Satele have much more impressive showings then Anakin in (type of) mediums in which both characters are directly comparable. In this context, Satele is supposed to be superior to Anakin in general.
No she isn't.
Also, Satele (Jedi Knight) utterly humiliated Malgus with her Force abilities, who in turn, survived collapse of two buildings around his landing position with his Force abilities and proceeded to defeat another immensely formidable opposition even in a state of being heavily injured. This event indicates that even examples of incredible display of raw power are not helping your case in this debate. Anakin may not stand a chance against Malgus, let alone Satele.
She couldn't defeat a Malgus who wasn't even at the peak of his power without the help of a trooper. How exactly does this compare to Skywalker who defeated Dooku within the breath of 30 seconds when in the zone.
See above!Satele & Malgus > Anakin
Deal with it.
The argument here is not about nature of canon but nature of the mediums. It is not possible to compare Satele with Anakin in all kinds of mediums. Anakin benefits from being overhyped in highly unrealistic mediums while Satele have never been featured in mediums of such nature so we do not have an idea of how far authors can go at depicting the might of Satele in the context of creative liberties in low budget mediums.
Uhh what's your point? Exaggerated or no it is canon. We accept the ridiculous feats of characters in the Old Republic era like Nihlius ripping his fleet from orbit. But when it comes to things like the PT characters having formidable chops its downplay downplay downplay.
However, Malgus's performance against immensely formidable opposition not long after the events depicted in Hope trailer is actually favoring my position in this debate.
As per your reasoning, Galen should have utterly dominated Vader in single combat but the latter didn't turn out to be walk in the park for the former. Galen did defeat Vader but after decent effort.
Or maybe Vader is more powerful than you give him credit.
However, Anakin, doesn't have luxury of being Galen in this particular hypothetical duel.
I have seen nothing to suggest that Hope Trailer Malgus is anywhere near Lord Tyranus in terms of skill and power. She doesn't have the dueling chops or the TK chops to deal with Skywalker who by ROTS is easily one of the most powerful Jedi in history.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Doesn't matter he wtf pwned Dooku with his saber.
Excuse me?
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No he shouldn't Dooku casually topples a massive crane in TCWs video game.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No he wasn't."We—" Obi-Wan shook his head helplessly. "We don't keep
secrets from each other."
"You must keep this one." Mace laced his fingers together land
squeezed until his knuckles crackled like blasterfire. "Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he is still getting stronger. But he is not stable. You know it. We all do. It is why he cannot be given Mastership. We must keep him off the Council, despite his extraordinary gifts. And Jedi prophecy... is not absolute. The less he
has to do with Palpatine, the better."
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No she isn't.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
She couldn't defeat a Malgus who wasn't even at the peak of his power without the help of a trooper. How exactly does this compare to Skywalker who defeated Dooku within the breath of 30 seconds when in the zone.
In contrast, both Satele and Malgus are young and pack extreme raw power during their second confrontation (depicted in Hope Cinematic Trailer).
During this confrontation, Satele, at one point, held Malgus at bay with a single hand and used the other hand to knock out a gigantic tree simultaneously; putting up this level of performance against Malgus is evidence of enormous raw power and capability to use the Force very effectively during martial aspects of combat. Keep in mind that Malgus is evidently among the strongest brutes of the mythos.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Lol.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Uhh what's your point? Exaggerated or no it is canon. We accept the ridiculous feats of characters in the Old Republic era like Nihlius ripping his fleet from orbit. But when it comes to things like the PT characters having formidable chops its downplay downplay downplay.
At personal capacity, I have nothing against Anakin but the feat (cited by you in this thread) contradicts with the ground realities of G-canon itself. Therefore, caution is advised in this kind of scenario.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Or maybe Vader is more powerful than you give him credit.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I have seen nothing to suggest that Hope Trailer Malgus is anywhere near Lord Tyranus in terms of skill and power.
Also, consult a source called The Third Lesson to understand how powerful Malgus was during his venture in Aldeeran.
To give you an idea; Maul pulled a shuttle off the edge of a cliff. In comparison, Malgus could lift that shuttle up and toss it around like a missile.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
She doesn't have the dueling chops or the TK chops to deal with Skywalker who by ROTS is easily one of the most powerful Jedi in history.
Satele, at one point, held Malgus at bay with a single hand and used the other hand to knock out a gigantic tree simultaneously; putting up this level of performance against Malgus is evidence of enormous raw power and capability to use the Force very effectively during martial aspects of combat. Keep in mind that Malgus is evidently among the strongest brutes of the mythos. However, Malgus apparently outdueled Satele on the basis of his relatively superior swordsmanship skills and not his Force augmented brute strength. But then Satele was not defenseless against a lightsaber even while being disarmed.
In addition, Satele's cliff shattering feat is among the best examples of incredible display of raw power with telekinetic abilities in the mythos thus far. Cliffs are extraordinarily durable and heavy formations among natural phenomenon; second only to mountains perhaps.
Satele packed so much talent that she is the youngest Jedi in history to attain the rank of Grand Jedi Master.
Anakin's feat (Revealed in this thread by you) is inconsistent with his G-canon based ground realities. I am left with no option but to ignore this one.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]😕Excuse me?
Dooku got stomped by Zoneakin.
That Crane rivals the depicted platform in size? Show me its footage.
Character assessments aren't infallible. Later on, Obi-Wan stalemated Anakin in a contest involving their Force abilities (and Obi-Wan isn't Yoda; not even close).
Character assessments>Your assessments unless otherwise stated in canon. And a crying mentally confused Anakin trying to kill his father figure does not compare to in the zone Anakin.
As per revelations in comparable mediums, she is.
CGI is not a comparable medium to film.
Dooku was disadvantaged due to his age factor since he was no longer a power duelist during his old age or perhaps even in prime (He commonly relied on elegance and sheer expDertise to handle his opponents in martial aspects of combat). Anakin, being young and packing extreme raw power, was in good position to overwhelm Dooku in martial aspects of combat since the former could channel his raw power relatively more effectively in these aspects to produce sufficient pressure on the latter to wear him down with powerful blows. Dooku's trump card was to gain advantage early on by overwhelming Anakin with his sheer Force abilities but he lost this opportunity and became a victim to his misplaced trust on Sidious.
Dooku wasn't disadvantaged due to his age. Throughout the Clone Wars he showed the ability to repeatedly humiliate and crush those younger than him.
In contrast, both Satele and Malgus are young and pack extreme raw power during their second confrontation (depicted in Hope Cinematic Trailer).
Considering earlier in the aforementioned duel the Count engaged in a saber lock with Skywalker and Kenobi single handed, I highly doubt Satele or Malgus have a considerable if any edge on Dooku. And they certainly don't have one on Skywalker.
During this confrontation, Satele, at one point, held Malgus at bay with a single hand and used the other hand to knock out a gigantic tree simultaneously; putting up this level of performance against Malgus is evidence of enormous raw power and capability to use the Force very effectively during martial aspects of combat. Keep in mind that Malgus is evidently among the strongest brutes of the mythos.
Prove Malgus or Satele have more raw power than Skywalker or even Dooku.
This seems to be the case.
A SWTOR high tier is going to defeat a PT top tier when the PT is confirmed to be above SWTOR eral. Lol.
Also I don't even consider knight Satele to be a SWTOR high tier, more like mid-tier.
My point is that it is not possible to fairly compare Satele with Anakin in the context of their Force abilities on the whole due to difference in depth of exploration of their abilities in different kinds of mediums; Anakin benefits from creative liberties of some low budget mediums but Satele is devoid of such luxury. However, in mediums (in which both characters are fairly comparable), Satele is evidently superior to Anakin.
Even in non-exaggerated sources Skywalker is superior. He rips down the statue near the temple entrance and uses it to break down the main door. That is>anything Satele has ever done.
At personal capacity, I have nothing against Anakin but the feat (cited by you in this thread) contradicts with the ground realities of G-canon itself. Therefore, caution is advised in this kind of scenario.
It's canon. It happened. Your vaunted attempts at devaluing source materials to advance characters you have a preference for (SWTOR characters) has been noted throughout your history of posting here. At this point it's just gotten ridiculous.
You missed my point; TFU sources depict Galen in such overwhelming ways that it felt like as if Galen would walk all over another powerful individual but this wasn't the case. Galen didn't find even Shaak Ti as "walk in the park" category opponent.
Again that does not Galen is weaker because he didn't walk all over these combatants, it just means the combatants are stronger.
Excuse me? You recall how Malgus overwhelmed Darach with his raw power in a duel which took place much earlier? Darach seems to be a match for Dooku in high budget depictions.
Kao Cen Darach is stated to be "unmatched by his contemporaries." Which means absolutely nothing in the
Also, consult a source called The Third Lesson to understand how powerful Malgus was during his venture in Aldeeran.
Do tell me how an obscure source depicts Malgus as superior to the Chosen One in his prime.
To give you an idea; Maul pulled a shuttle off the edge of a cliff. In comparison, Malgus could lift that shuttle up and toss it around like a missile.
I highly doubt that.
Really?Satele, at one point, held Malgus at bay with a single hand and used the other hand to knock out a gigantic tree simultaneously; putting up this level of performance against Malgus is evidence of enormous raw power and capability to use the Force very effectively during martial aspects of combat. Keep in mind that Malgus is evidently among the strongest brutes of the mythos. However, Malgus apparently outdueled Satele on the basis of his relatively superior swordsmanship skills and not his Force augmented brute strength. But then Satele was not defenseless against a lightsaber even while being disarmed.
What's your point? Fancy retelling of events I am already familiar with do not help your case.
In addition, Satele's cliff shattering feat is among the best examples of incredible display of raw power with telekinetic abilities in the mythos thus far. Cliffs are extraordinarily durable and heavy formations among natural phenomenon; second only to mountains perhaps.
It isn't. Not with Starkiller using TK to fire a cannon, Yoda smashing two C-9979 transports together with a gesture, Darth Nihilus ripping his fleet from orbit, and Tulak Hord ripping a battlecruiser from orbit. Also that hardly was a cliff. More like a rock formation.
Satele packed so much talent that she is the youngest Jedi in history to attain the rank of Grand Jedi Master.
Ahh such an impressive feat with half the Jedi Council dead. The fact that Orgus Din, a man who got his ass handed to him by a Darth who wasn't even on the council was considered one of their greatest swordsmen speaks wonders to the condition of the Jedi Order as of the start of SWTOR.
The Jedi Orders powerhouses were Satele, Tol Braga, and Jaric Kaedan. The rest of the Council were pretty pathetic in terms of martial prowess.
Anakin's feat (Revealed in this thread by you) is inconsistent with his G-canon based ground realities. I am left with no option but to ignore this one.
Clearly you don't understand how canon works. You don't have the authority to ignore canon feats and statements and dismiss them as non-canon. These comics are C-Canon and until Lucasarts, Disney, or Leeland Chee says that they aren't canon, they are canon as are the events and feats in them. Deal with it.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
By ROTS Anakin is trouncing foes like Dooku. Mace Windu himself states that Anakin is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive. So if he can be argued to be the most powerful Jedi in its golden age, the idea that Satele Shan in her knighthood could defeat him is downright laughable.Make this Grand Master Satele Shan and she goes down with a much harder fight.
Zonakin is pretty great, yes.
Satale Shan is at her peak during her knighthood. In Swtor she says she isn't as good anymore as she was in her youth.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dooku got stomped by Zoneakin.
CIP: Anakin failed to overwhelm Obi-Wan (And no! Anakin wasn't confused during this duel). This example proves that effectiveness of characters may vary in different situations.
Duel on Mustafar
Vader releases Padme from his telekinetic deathgrip to engage Obi-Wan in a fierce duel. The combatants are so focused on each other's movements that neither notices the intrepid R2-D2 hauling Padme's unconscious form back to her starship.
The battle takes Vader and Obi-Wan through the main collection plant of the old lava mine, across platforms that stretch over riverbeds of molten lava. As every step becomes more perilous and Vader's attacks more ferocious, Obi-Wan realizes that he still cares for Anakin, and that the only way to defeat his opponent is to let go of his feelings for his former friend. When Obi-Wan releases the emotional attachment, the battle turns for the Jedi.
Source: Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide
Pwned much? I guess so...
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Character assessments>Your assessments unless otherwise stated in canon.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And a crying mentally confused Anakin trying to kill his father figure does not compare to in the zone Anakin.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
CGI is not a comparable medium to film.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dooku wasn't disadvantaged due to his age. Throughout the Clone Wars he showed the ability to repeatedly humiliate and crush those younger than him.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Considering earlier in the aforementioned duel the Count engaged in a saber lock with Skywalker and Kenobi single handed, I highly doubt Satele or Malgus have a considerable if any edge on Dooku. And they certainly don't have one on Skywalker.
Satele's feat is relatively noticeably more tedious then that of Dooku's. Satele was involved in two tedious tasks; (a) holding one of the greatest (Force augmented) physical brutes at bay with one hand; and (b) simultaneously involved in ripping apart a gigantic tree from its foundation (a major action in itself).
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Prove Malgus or Satele have more raw power than Skywalker or even Dooku.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
A SWTOR high tier is going to defeat a PT top tier when the PT is confirmed to be above SWTOR eral. Lol.
In fact, it can be argued that the Jedi Order was at is peak effectiveness during the time of Satele in entire history (I have provided some information below in this regard).
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Also I don't even consider knight Satele to be a SWTOR high tier, more like mid-tier.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Even in non-exaggerated sources Skywalker is superior. He rips down the statue near the temple entrance and uses it to break down the main door. That is>anything Satele has ever done.
2. You think that Satele would find such a task difficult? She ripped apart a gigantic tree with a single hand while holding off Malgus at bay with another. Gigantic trees are extremely durable and heavy natural phenomenon as well (Weighing hundreds of tons; the largest ones are known to weigh thousands of tons). This feat alone proves that she can duplicate Anakin's feat (inside the Jedi Temple) effortlessly. Therefore, your reasoning is BS.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
It's canon. It happened.[
Also, you have not revealed much about the source featuring this feat. Any link?
If we are to factor-in the feat you cited then we have to adjust it within the holistic picture of capabilities of Anakin in the light of his depiction in all canon sources thus far; while Anakin undoubtedly packed immense raw power, he hadn't managed to harness it very effectively during combat situations prior to his defeat on Mustafar (At least, not on the level of him being able to influence inanimate objects with his Force abilities). Anakin apparently addressed this shortcoming during his reign as cybernetic Darth Vader; this might be the reason that why cybernetic Darth Vader was apparently very effective in combat situations but still not unstoppable as proved by young Luke. I cannot think of a better explanation, otherwise, Anakin would have easily overwhelmed Obi-Wan with his sheer Force abilities alone.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Your vaunted attempts at devaluing source materials to advance characters you have a preference for (SWTOR characters) has been noted throughout your history of posting here. At this point it's just gotten ridiculous.
Also, it is common practice among fans of Star Wars mythos to go out of their way to argue in favor of their favorites in debates. This is why these debates are never ending. So do not single me out from such fans because you fall in the same boat. In fact, I have minimized my participation in these debates with passage of time, but if I have started a debate, I would like to end it as well.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Again that does not Galen is weaker because he didn't walk all over these combatants, it just means the combatants are stronger.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Kao Cen Darach is stated to be "unmatched by his contemporaries." Which means absolutely nothing in the
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Do tell me how an obscure source depicts Malgus as superior to the Chosen One in his prime.
Malgus is evidently more of a brute then even Anakin. Just go through the powers and abilities section here which is nicely done: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Malgus
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I highly doubt that.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
What's your point? Fancy retelling of events I am already familiar with do not help your case.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
It isn't. Not with Starkiller using TK to fire a cannon, Yoda smashing two C-9979 transports together with a gesture, Darth Nihilus ripping his fleet from orbit, and Tulak Hord ripping a battlecruiser from orbit. Also that hardly was a cliff. More like a rock formation.
Also, whatever that rocky formation is, it is BIG, but camera angles in the cinematic trailer do not give viewers a proper glimpse of its sheer size. One source describes Malgus's situation as being found within a "mountain of rubble" after this event. To utterly shatter a BIG rocky formation like that requires "building shattering" power. The feat is easily among the best examples of display of raw power.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Ahh such an impressive feat with half the Jedi Council dead.
Satele made it possible for the Jedi Order to bounce back from the major setbacks it suffered during the war against the Sith Empire and arguably shaped it in to its most effective form in history which led to the fall of Sith Emperor himself.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The fact that Orgus Din, a man who got his ass handed to him by a Darth who wasn't even on the council was considered one of their greatest swordsmen speaks wonders to the condition of the Jedi Order as of the start of SWTOR.The Jedi Orders powerhouses were Satele, Tol Braga, and Jaric Kaedan. The rest of the Council were pretty pathetic in terms of martial prowess.
Also, add HoT, Revan, Bersen'thor and Syo to the list of powerhouses of this era. The Jedi on this time were generally impressive. Some notable names are Aryn, Bengal, Usma, Darach and Zallow. Their might be more whom I do not recall at the moment.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Clearly you don't understand how canon works. You don't have the authority to ignore canon feats and statements and dismiss them as non-canon. These comics are C-Canon and until Lucasarts, Disney, or Leeland Chee says that they aren't canon, they are canon as are the events and feats in them. Deal with it.
"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences. The novelizations are written concurrently with the film's production, so variations in detail do creep in from time to time. Nonetheless, they should be regarded as very accurate depictions of the fictional Star Wars movies.
The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable.
The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.'"
Get my stance of reasoning now?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Zonakin is pretty great, yes.Satale Shan is at her peak during her knighthood. In Swtor she says she isn't as good anymore as she was in her youth.
Would you like to prove that she was talking about her knighthood? When does she state this?
Because Satele is nearly 60 by the time the Cold War ends. She was only 48 when she became Grand Master.
Hang on this seems to be a gigantic plot hole based on her birthdate of 3699 BBY. Satele is supposed to be 46 at the time of the Sacking of Coruscant... 😕
Anyway there's no evidence stating she was in her prime during the Battle of Alderaan. I would think she'd be in her prime around the time she became Grand Master.