Originally posted by Nephthys
When was this?
When Greivous sends his magnaguards to kill Kenobi after the Jedi confronts him.
Plus Satele has shattered a blast door with a seemingly casual one-handed force push:Blast door >>> support structures.
Naturally, I'd ask when this happens.
You mean Aryn? She's shown to be pretty damn powerful bro, putting up more of a fight then her master did.
Sorry, I should have defined "exceptional"; I mean relative to people like Anakin. Aryn is obviously very talented, but nobody treats her as if she were one of the top dogs in the entire Order. Anakin by RotS has legendary skills and is the third most powerful Jedi in the Order. We're talking about the top 0.03%.
As for Satele, well her first master was the Orders battlemaster and in the Hope trailer she was shown to be able to literally run through Sith Warriors. In a rather impressive bit of speed and skill when she first shows up, she blasts 3 Sith into the air and manages to jump and kill them all in about a second.
Impressive, but we have no idea how formidable those sith are...the videos make it quite clear that they're fodder; Malcom literally runs through them as well in the Hope trailer.
Lol, not even above AotC Anakin at this point. She blocked a lightsaber with her bare hands!
A testament to her mastery of the Force, or perhaps even just her mastery of a specific Force technique. Her lightsaber skills aren't necessarily above Anakin's.
You seem to forget that the only reason she had sufficient prep time was because she blew him away and kept up the force while she charged up the blast, showing remarkable skill and power. Personally I don't see Anakin closing the distance when Malgus couldn't in the face of her TK.
Um, if she could do this at will, she would have done so against Malgus right off the bat. She only manages to do so after Malcom distracts Malgus for several seconds, and Shan possibly had absorbed energy from the lightsaber.
Originally posted by Master Han
When Greivous sends his magnaguards to kill Kenobi after the Jedi confronts him.
Lol. Those were tiny.
Originally posted by Master Han
Naturally, I'd ask when this happens.
Star Wars: The Old Republic 7: The Lost Suns, Part 1. Not sure when that is.
Originally posted by Master Han
Sorry, I should have defined "exceptional"; I mean relative to people like Anakin. Aryn is obviously very talented, but nobody treats her as if she were one of the top dogs in the entire Order. Anakin by RotS has legendary skills and is the third most powerful Jedi in the Order. We're talking about the top 0.03%.
If she isn't one of the top dogs, then that just speaks of the skills of the Jedi Order at the time. I don't really care if she's particularly note worthy, just what she's demonstrated. I mean, some random padawan once held up a Star Destroyer and she's not mentioned outside of the one appearance.
Originally posted by Master Han
Impressive, but we have no idea how formidable those sith are...the videos make it quite clear that they're fodder; Malcom literally runs through them as well in the Hope trailer.
They're fodder to Satele and Malcom perhaps, that doesn't make them weak. Malcom is the finest soldier in the entire Republic after all.
Originally posted by Master Han
A testament to her mastery of the Force, or perhaps even just her mastery of a specific Force technique. Her lightsaber skills aren't necessarily above Anakin's.
I didn't say they were, but I do think she's good enough to hold him off for her potent Force mastery to take him out.
Originally posted by Master Han
Um, if she could do this at will, she would have done so against Malgus right off the bat. She only manages to do so after Malcom distracts Malgus for several seconds, and Shan possibly had absorbed energy from the lightsaber.
And if Dooku was capable of overwhelming Obi-Wan with TK, he would have done it right off the bat too! Regardless of her tactical oversight, she showed that she was able to do it, and I've never seen anything indicating that she did absorb energy from his lightsaber.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol. Those were tiny.
Still more impressive than snapping a tree trunk (as powerful as that may be).
Star Wars: The Old Republic 7: The Lost Suns, Part 1. Not sure when that is.
Do you know if Satele Shan is grandmaster by then?
If she isn't one of the top dogs, then that just speaks of the skills of the Jedi Order at the time. I don't really care if she's particularly note worthy, just what she's demonstrated. I mean, some random padawan once held up a Star Destroyer and she's not mentioned outside of the one appearance.
Aryn is able to fall from terminal velocity, but must slow her descent and (IIRC) suffers minor injuries in the process.
AotC Anakin can do this casually, almost as if it were a game, onto a rapidly moving airspeeder, with perfect timing and no injury whatsoever.
They're fodder to Satele and Malcom perhaps, that doesn't make them weak. Malcom is the finest soldier in the entire Republic after all.
Let's be fair here; if they're fodder to Malcom, they're fodder to Anakin.
I didn't say they were, but I do think she's good enough to hold him off for her potent Force mastery to take him out.
This may happen, but Anakin is still pulling off the majority of wins here; notice how quickly Anakin attacks Obi Wan in RotS? Could Satele have any hope of surviving long enough to create distance?
And if Dooku was capable of overwhelming Obi-Wan with TK, he would have done it right off the bat too! Regardless of her tactical oversight, she showed that she was able to do it, and I've never seen anything indicating that she did absorb energy from his lightsaber.
1. Dooku was initially going easy on them.
2. Who says he can overwhelm Obi Wan off the bat? RoDV insinuates that he caught Kenobi off guard/out-speeded him.
Originally posted by Master HanDo you know if Satele Shan is grandmaster by then?
Not even close, really. If she's fighting that would mean it's during the war which is ~8 years prior to TOR. And since she was still called a padawan during the Sacking of Coruscant which ended the war Satele is a long way off.
Actually its The Lost Suns we're talking about. Wookieepedia is confusing on when the feat takes place, but I finally figured it out. The comic itself takes place in the same year as SWTOR starts, which is well into Shans Grand Mastership, but the actual feat in question takes place in the Battle of Rhem Var, which takes place at least before the Treaty of Coruscant.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh, and btw, anyone pointing out that Malgus failed to kill Malcom with his lightning in the 'Hope' trailer: Havoc Squads armor is insulated and has cortosis plating. I guess Malgus should have aimed for the face. 😐
Originally posted by Nephthys
No it isn't. 😬
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
More like the way he crushed Count Dooku.
Anakin's victory over Dooku wasn't an easy development in the making; Anakin had ample time to familiarize himself with talents of Dooku and hone his capabilities accordingly. The possibility of specialization is strong in this case, but limitations of this specialization became apparent when Anakin attempted to outduel Obi-Wan and failed. Anakin's shortcoming is in "command of the Force" factor; it seems like as if his Jedi mentor(s) failed to make the best out of him. And not to forget that Dooku was in decline while Anakin was at the height of his strength as of RoTS.
Satele brings a lot on the table; in many ways, she seems to give Yoda'esque vibe with her actions (in-fact her lightsaber blocking feat is unparalleled). If Anakin somehow matches her in martial aspects, he falls short in other areas.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He has:He killed Durge when he started controlling him with TK- Obsession.
He's battered Ventress by telekinetically squashing her in cables which she was helpless to release herself from- Dreadnaughts of Rendilli.
He force choked Ventress and she again seemed defenseless to free herself from his hold.- Last episdoe of TCW.
He even once temporarily staggered Dooku with Tk as early in the clone wars as TCW movie.
Not to mention his continuous tanking of all Dooku's force attacks, and Dooku himself admitting in their final fight that his Knowledge of the Force was a Joke next to Skywalker. This is the same Dooku whom Yoda calls the Temple's "Most Learned in the Ways of the Force."Edit- Oh and the biggest one: He overpowered the Son and Daughter together. Of course that's a clear one-off Uber-Zone feat.
- Durge shouldn't be a problem for a powerful Force-user.
- Ventress was utterly humiliated by Yoda. This event reveals how much she is lacking along with likes of Anakin and Obi-Wan.
- Dooku utterly outclassed him in response. Of-course, sand was not going to hurt Anakin.
- I don't regard Mortis based events as true representative of Anakin's capabilities. That part of lore was filled with depiction of mental games and supernatural stuff. It is possible that The Father helped Anakin for disciplining his siblings.
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Anakin wasn't lacking in potential; he was lacking in his understanding of the ways of the Force. With lot of training and exposure, he may have eventually unlocked his true abilities but he ran out of luck.
Originally posted by Master Han
Still more impressive than snapping a tree trunk (as powerful as that may be).
Finest example of Apples and Oranges comparison till date.
Originally posted by Master Han
This may happen, but Anakin is still pulling off the majority of wins here; notice how quickly Anakin attacks Obi Wan in RotS? Could Satele have any hope of surviving long enough to create distance?
Originally posted by Master Han
Still more impressive than snapping a tree trunk (as powerful as that may be).
Not more impressive than shattering the blastdoor though.
Originally posted by Master Han
Do you know if Satele Shan is grandmaster by then?
As I said, its from back when Satele was a Knight in the war. She blasts through the blast door (heh) and then whoops a Dark Council members ass. Good for her.
Originally posted by Master Han
Aryn is able to fall from terminal velocity, but must slow her descent and (IIRC) suffers minor injuries in the process.AotC Anakin can do this casually, almost as if it were a game, onto a rapidly moving airspeeder, with perfect timing and no injury whatsoever.
Thats one feat. Aryn has others:
'Aryn fell fully into the Force, raised her defenses, took a fighting stance, and parried Malgus’s two-handed overhand slash. Still, he landed in a cocoon of power, hitting the ground in an explosion of might that shattered the stones round them and turned them into a hail of shrapnel. Unflinching, Aryn deflected them with the Force as she parried another slash from Malgus. The force of the Sith’s blow made her arms quiver, but she gave no ground.'
'Malgus parried crosswise with his blade and stepped into a Force-augmented side kick aimed at her ribs. She caught the kick with her free hand, closed her arm over his leg, spun, and flung Malgus twenty meters from her.'
'His power met her will. The lightning twisted around the glowing blades. The force of it stopped her downward descent and held her aloft in the air for a moment, suspended on a column built of the dark side.
And then she overcame it.' (bare in mind, Malgus overwhelmed a Jedi capable of collapsing two buildings with his lightning previously, but Aryn was able to overcome his lightning)
She's also shown to be faster than Malgus: 'He tried to use his superior strength to force her off the stone, off balance, but she answered his strength with speed, sidestepping his blows, leaping over them, parrying, unleashing her own flurries. The hum of their weapons through the air, the sizzle of crossed blades, merged into a single song of speed and power.'
On the whole Aryn shows remarkable skill in her duel with Malgus, dealing with his telekinesis and lightning extremely well (which Anakin didn't have to his duel with Dooku) and demonstrating herself to be his equal in terms of lightsaber combat, hitting him at least twice. She's really ****ing good dude.
Originally posted by Master Han
Let's be fair here; if they're fodder to Malcom, they're fodder to Anakin.
Meh, I watched the trailer and all he does is bull through 2 of them. Its not like he actually beat them.
Originally posted by Master Han
This may happen, but Anakin is still pulling off the majority of wins here; notice how quickly Anakin attacks Obi Wan in RotS? Could Satele have any hope of surviving long enough to create distance?
Uh, yes? Anakin's jump backwards is actually fairly slow in terms of combat, I'm sure Satele could use the Force on him before her engages her. Or she could go for a saberlock and use the Force to create a pause in the fight like she did to Malgus. And yeah, I think she's good enough to create some distance.
Originally posted by Master Han
1. Dooku was initially going easy on them.
2. Who says he can overwhelm Obi Wan off the bat? RoDV insinuates that he caught Kenobi off guard/out-speeded him.
1. I know. Alls I'm saying is that people don't always use their finishing move right at the start, right? Satele had to get through those Sith to get to Malgus and maybe she just thought it was better to continue her charge and hit him with some momentum.
2. Well Maul has shown that he can overwhelm Obi-Wan, and Dooku is more powerful than Maul imo, especially in terms of tk.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDBut Satele is evidently tougher opponent then Count. Let me clarify an element which people often miss while wanking about Anakin's victory over Dooku and using it as the basis to claim that he is going to dominate anybody barring select few in PT era.
Yeah except it's not just about his ROTS Victory over the Count anymore. It's his consistent stalemating against the Count during TCW.
So it is only the PT Elite (Yoda, Sidious and possibly Mace) who are more powerful than Skywalker.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Anakin's victory over Dooku wasn't an easy development in the making; Anakin had ample time to familiarize himself with talents of Dooku and hone his capabilities accordingly.
See above. Also Skywalker was no more familiar with Dooku than Dooku was with Skywalker.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The possibility of specialization is strong in this case, but limitations of this specialization became apparent when Anakin attempted to outduel Obi-Wan and failed.
You go on about people wanking over Anakin's defeat over Dooku, yet never fail to rub in Kenobi's defeat over Anakin. But the fact is consistent showings make it absolutely clear Skywalker = Count Dooku > Kenobi.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Anakin's shortcoming is in "command of the Force" factor; it seems like as if his Jedi mentor(s) failed to make the best out of him. And not to forget that Dooku was in decline while Anakin was at the height of his strength as of RoTS.
This I will agree with, that Skywalker's general Command of the Force should have been a lot better than it was.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Satele brings a lot on the table; in many ways, she seems to give Yoda'esque vibe with her actions (in-fact her lightsaber blocking feat is unparalleled). If Anakin somehow matches her in martial aspects, he falls short in other areas.
I don't know. Dooku's incredible command of the force never seemed to work.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Anakin have his moments but he is not able to harness his Force abilities to his peak efficiency levels.- Durge shouldn't be a problem for a powerful Force-user.
- Ventress was utterly humiliated by Yoda. This event reveals how much she is lacking along with likes of Anakin and Obi-Wan.
- Dooku utterly outclassed him in response. Of-course, sand was not going to hurt Anakin.
- I don't regard Mortis based events as true representative of Anakin's capabilities. That part of lore was filled with depiction of mental games and supernatural stuff. It is possible that The Father helped Anakin for disciplining his siblings.
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- Durge- So you agree that feat does put Anakin in the "powerful force user" category.
- Skywalker is no Yoda. But dominating Ventress like that is only something the elite PT Power houses can do.
- Dooku- If your referring to the Tatooine fight, Dooku floored Skywaler a couple of times, but even then was really struggling to outright defeat him. And that was pretty early in the Clone Wars.
-Mortis- What happened is confirmed canon.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Anakin wasn't lacking in potential; he was lacking in his understanding of the ways of the Force. With lot of training and exposure, he may have eventually unlocked his true abilities but he ran out of luck.
And yet for all the potential he didn't tap he was still easily the 3rd most Powerful Jedi in the Order, and a peer to One of the Most Powerful Jedi in the Order's history, and now an even More Powerful Sith Lord.