Originally posted by Master Han
Your typical thermal detonator can vaporize pretty much everything within a 10 meter radius. More powerful thermal detonators can have blast radii of up to [b]100 meters - around the size of Hiroshima's fireball.Now, nobody said Vitiate wasn't doing anything under his own power to contribute to the assassination; he could have clouded their minds and drained their precognition and ability to erect Force defenses. But Jedi and Sith alike have used grenades to take out Force users before, and the notion that Vitiate stood in front of the council and just insta-killed them with a flash of light, and that he could do this against anyone in any circumstance, smacks of pure straw grabbing. [/B]
It says they died in a sudden flash. If it was an explosion it would have said that, especially if everything was vaporised in a 10-100 meter radius. The fact that Darth Lokess was identified specifically as not being among the dead also suggests that isn't the case, as does the fact that she wasn't killed, ruling out something as indiscriminate as a mere explosion.
I don't think Vitiate could do it in any circumstance. As you said he had ample prep in order to do it. I wouldn't argue him repeating it in any other circumstance that one when he has prep. What I take issue with is the idea that the entire Council could be taken out with a single grenade. If it was that childishly simple a random Bounty Hunter could solo them. Its plainly idiotic.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, given Malak's proximity to SWTOR, I don't think you'd support a thermal detonator argument. But I like Master Han because he takes the same dumb biased arguments you'd use and clobbers you over the head with them.Meanwhile I gorge myself on your outrage.
I dislike Malak quite a lot so no. Its still brick-dumb.
I wouldn't make this argument. You're the one whose historically done so, with your 'Revan beat Malak with mines' and 'Nihilus used a tractor beam' and a host of other arguments.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It says they died in a sudden flash. If it was an explosion it would have said that, especially if everything was vaporised in a 10-100 meter radius. The fact that Darth Lokess was identified specifically as not being among the dead also suggests that isn't the case, as does the fact that she wasn't killed, ruling out something as indiscriminate as a mere explosion.I don't think Vitiate could do it in any circumstance. As you said he had ample prep in order to do it. I wouldn't argue him repeating it in any other circumstance that one when he has prep. What I take issue with is the idea that the entire Council could be taken out with a single grenade. If it was that childishly simple and random Bounty Hunter could solo them. Its plainly idiotic.
You seem to think that my "thermal detonator" argument was 100% literal, in that he specifically killed the dark council with a thermonuclear grenade similar to the one used by Leia in RotJ...
yeah, no. The point is that Vitiate had access to technological assets in addition to his Force abilities and a massive quantity of prep time. Maybe he had booby trapped the room and used his Force abilities to cloud their precognition. Perhaps he sported a double barreled grenade launcher. Or maybe he just lured them into a tactically disadvantageous position and pulled off a prep-reliant Force power or ritual.
Either way, there is literally nothing about their disappearing in a "bright flash" that indicates Vitiate's superiority over the combined dark council.
Originally posted by Master Han
You seem to think that my "thermal detonator" argument was 100% literal, in that he specifically killed the dark council with a thermonuclear grenade similar to the one used by Leia in RotJ...yeah, no. The point is that Vitiate had access to technological assets in addition to his Force abilities and a massive quantity of prep time. Maybe he had booby trapped the room and used his Force abilities to cloud their precognition. Perhaps he sported a double barreled grenade launcher. Or maybe he just lured them into a tactically disadvantageous position and pulled off a prep-reliant Force power or ritual.
Either way, there is literally nothing about their disappearing in a "bright flash" that indicates Vitiate's superiority over the combined dark council.
Ok....
They died on the Council steps. If you'd played the game you'd know thats right out in the open with camera's pointed right at it. If it was anything technological Imperial Intelligence could easily identify it. He clearly took them out as you said, with a prep-reliant Force power or ritual.
I wouldn't say that. It does indicate that he can take them out with prep though, through a technique or ritual.
Also only Lokess disappeared, the rest just died. Again, thats a level of discrimination beyond technological means of mass destruction.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Good... Good!
Now, release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy me.
Originally posted by Nephthys
[B]Ok....They died on the Council steps. If you'd played the game you'd know thats right out in the open with camera's pointed right at it. If it was anything technological Imperial Intelligence could easily identify it. He clearly took them out as you said, with a prep-reliant Force power or ritual.
I wouldn't say that. It does indicate that he can take them out with prep though, through a technique or ritual.
Also only Lokess disappeared, the rest just died. Again, thats a level of discrimination beyond technological means of mass destruction.
Your claim that somebody would have seen any technological inference ignores the fact that nobody actually saw what happened...except that there was a bright flash, and they all died. That's it. And LOL at the cameras argument; you don't think Vitiate couldn't turn those off on command? So, what's to say he didn't chuck a grenade at them (and there are plenty of ways to figure out who died without having identifiable bodies)? Or pull out a shotgun? You really have no idea.
You can't prove that he used the Force against them to any impressive degree. You can't prove that he really did anything impressive in terms of pure power. He just somehow, mysteriously, managed to kill them with the cards stacked in his favor in every possible manner. It's an inadmissible and wholly useless "feat".
Originally posted by Nephthys
haermmVitiate killed them all with a shotgun. Oh god, now I know you're trolling me!
You obviously didn't get the memo; the point is that Vitiate could have killed them with anything, and so the feat is utterly unquantifiable and pointless. It could have been a grenade, a shotgun, carbon monoxide, or a giant, bottomless pit. That the ideas seem ridiculous just points to the ridiculous margin of deviation of the quote's possible interpretations.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Just imagine the awkwardness of Sidious and Yoda meeting up at the landing platform before Anakin arrived.
Palps likely called Yoda into his office.
"I'm Darth Sidious, I know you probably want to kill me right now, but I'm the strongest Sith in history, and you're the strongest Jedi and if we're going to beat Anakin, we need to join forces."
"Agree I do."
Anakin: You underestimate my power.
*****s them*
