Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Keeping in mind the passivity or tactical ineptness of Yoda, I doubt that he could make difference in the setting involving Mace. Do you recall how easily Sidious overpowered Yoda in the opening phase of their encounter?In-fact, Mace attempted to save Fisto but the latter still fell like fodder. Those 3 Jedi Masters would be non-factor to Sidious in any setting.
Also, some sources imply that Mace legitimately overcame Sidious. Yoda also had his chance and lost.
Mace did legitimately overcome Sidious, but in a context specific scenario.
That scenario being Sidious had to waste the first crucial seconds of the fight killing the the Council Memebers. He went on to drive Mace back for another 20 seconds after this occurred.
Had those Masters not been there, then not only would that have rapidly increased Sidious's chances of winning the Saber fight in the first 30 seconds, but if you add in a good Force attack at the beginning then I would say Sidious would have taken a large majority against Mace in a one on one all out.
Now with Yoda there instead of Mace, those first crucial seconds of blitzing those Masters would have surely cost Sidious the fight.
We can't just ignore circumstances of the fights in question.
Originally posted by Master Han
Mind you, the whole muntuur stones is highly inconsistent with demonstrated canon evidence of Yoda lifting the equivalent of far more than five stones. 😉
I think it's a combination of weight *and* multi-tasking.
Lifting two stones is much harder than lifting one twice-as-big stone. Yoda's predecessor could handle more than oldYoda, telling she's incredibly good at TK at least, though he's likely more well-rounded.
Originally posted by Master Han
Is Cade particularly powerful?Or are you referring to accomplishments?
Cade's very powerful. Early in the comic when he hadn't really used the force for 7 years and was rusty, he pulled an old starship out of a swamp and tossed it far as a projectile.
He's also the first person who managed to use the force to draw people back from death (and the second learned it from him).
And here's more of his TK- he's at the center of a giant explosion that destroyed the base he was in and force-barriers it, walking out unharmed while carrying someone.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Luke should be first, and yoda second. i guess you could put the hero at third (though he barely edges mace windu) windu 4th, probably barsen'thor 5th, possibly nomi sunrider, then it might be interchangeable with katarn and revan, 9 might be kyp durron, and ten could be cade skywalker
I don't consider Cade a great Jedi. Great force user but he was as far from the Jedi ideal as it gets without going full on darkside. Can't believe I forgot Durron, would add him to my list of notables.
^Katarn has better lightsaber feats/accolades, ditto to Revan with the Force. I'd give the "prodigal knight" the edge overall, since he's apparently more powerful than Nihilus, and put Vitiate on his ass while on a dark side nexus. I mean, as vague as some accolades may appear, that Revan is widely revered and even worshiped thousands of years after his death has to mean something.
holy krap, kyle might be FAR stronger than i first thought. if this is true, at least, i found this on some forum describing kyle's beating dark jedi masters feat:
Didn't I already explain the seven Dark Jedi were powerful? They are not the "average" Dark Jedi, or Reborns. They are the Seven Dark Jedi. Jerec was trained by Lord Vader, Jocasta Nu, and Sidious himself. He was also capable of cutting people off from the Force ("Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to The Force"😉, was a fully trained Jedi, he had a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when he fought Kyle, and Qu Rahn had said this:
"If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."
And Jerec did get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when fighting Kyle, yet Kyle still defeated him even with no real training. And, Jerec was also viewed as one of the galaxy's biggest threats.
He also defeated six other fully trained Jedi. Boc, who used dual lightsabers, and used an unorthodox style. Pic and Gorc, who were described as: "Pic is the energy and Gorc, the counter. They are the clashing balance of opposites: one, the voice; the other, the body. This combination is deadly."
Sariss, who was also a master in lightsaber combat, "Out of all the Dark Jedi I have met, Sariss is the one I can say I fear. Powerful, strong in both the physical and mental arenas of the Force, she is a master, a perfectionist, quiet and reserved. This makes her a very dangerous foe."
Yun, who was young and somewhat inexperienced, but nonetheless powerful, "These elements make him a dangerous and unpredictable foe." Then you have Maw, who's only half a body anyways, lol, but is still described as a "strong and formidable foe".
So, it would seem that the seven Dark Jedi Kyle faced weren't average, and were all described as being powerful. We know Jerec is the most powerful out of all of them, and still Kyle beat him.
he did this with little training.
Very.
But like another prodigy (Bane), his apparently unnatural learning rate doesn't preclude the fact that he was surpassed by others.
There's a wonderful lesson to be learned from this. Kyle went on to be surpassed definitely by Luke and Caedus and almost certainly Kyp.
We shouldn't assume that these allegedly unnatural prodigies (Bane, Vitiate, etc.) go on to surpass people with less impressive resumes (Caedus, Kyp).
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
holy krap, kyle might be FAR stronger than i first thought. if this is true, at least, i found this on some forum describing kyle's beating dark jedi masters feat:Didn't I already explain the seven Dark Jedi were powerful? They are not the "average" Dark Jedi, or Reborns. They are the Seven Dark Jedi. Jerec was trained by Lord Vader, Jocasta Nu, and Sidious himself. He was also capable of cutting people off from the Force ("Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to The Force"😉, was a fully trained Jedi, he had a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when he fought Kyle, and Qu Rahn had said this:
"If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."
And Jerec did get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when fighting Kyle, yet Kyle still defeated him even with no real training. And, Jerec was also viewed as one of the galaxy's biggest threats.
He also defeated six other fully trained Jedi. Boc, who used dual lightsabers, and used an unorthodox style. Pic and Gorc, who were described as: "Pic is the energy and Gorc, the counter. They are the clashing balance of opposites: one, the voice; the other, the body. This combination is deadly."
Sariss, who was also a master in lightsaber combat, "Out of all the Dark Jedi I have met, Sariss is the one I can say I fear. Powerful, strong in both the physical and mental arenas of the Force, she is a master, a perfectionist, quiet and reserved. This makes her a very dangerous foe."
Yun, who was young and somewhat inexperienced, but nonetheless powerful, "These elements make him a dangerous and unpredictable foe." Then you have Maw, who's only half a body anyways, lol, but is still described as a "strong and formidable foe".
So, it would seem that the seven Dark Jedi Kyle faced weren't average, and were all described as being powerful. We know Jerec is the most powerful out of all of them, and still Kyle beat him.
he did this with little training.
...as impressive as this may be, it's difficult to place him amongst the upper tiers because we really have no idea how powerful Jerec and the other dark jedi are. That they can use unorthodox styles and were trained by Sidious doesn't necessarily make them The Big Shit.
