Hyperion vs. Ultraman

Started by Rage.Of.Olympus27 pages

Originally posted by Philosophía
By using the nigh-Omnipotent Infinity Gauntlet. It's only logical that omnipotence would allow one to keep the Earth intact, while the palm of his hands wouldn't allow Hyperion to do so.

I'm not sure what your point is here.

Elaborate.

I know what the Infinity Gauntlet can do but can it affect the other Earth in such a way?

The cascading energies of the two planets breaking destroyed the Universe(s). Such energy being tied to a planet doesn't make sense but there it s.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And as we saw in the Captain America scene, he was able to push the entire Universe away by pushing on the Earth.
While I completely understand what you're saying, we must remember that Steve accomplished said feat with the IG, which vastly dissociates it with Hype's purely physical feat. Steve literally willed the entire universe to be pushed back, and used that earth as the focal point through which to apply his will. If one were so inclined, one could assume the earth wasn't destroyed in that scene because Steve willed it so-- that's why it didn't break, while the earths Hype held apart did. Just playing devil's advocate here. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
While I completely understand what you're saying, we must remember that Steve accomplished said feat with the IG, which vastly dissociates it with Hype's purely physical feat. Steve literally willed the entire universe to be pushed back, and used that earth as the focal point through which to apply his will. If one were so inclined, one could assume the earth wasn't destroyed in that scene because Steve willed it so-- that's why it didn't break, while the earths Hype held apart did. Just playing devil's advocate here. /shrug

Yeah, I totally get that but I said what I did because I remember Hickman clarifying the Infinity Gauntlet being purely Universal during his Fantastic Four run.

.....Unless that changed?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Can the Infinity Gauntlet affect the other Earth in such a way? I'm asking because Hickman's stance on the limits of the gauntlet are very clear.
Well, I assume you don't believe here Captain America shoots 'lazer beams' at the Earth, who gets scared and runs away, no?

http://s593.photobucket.com/user/Max_Eisenhardt/media/NewAvengers003-Zone-018_zps709dac85.jpg.html

So up until now, you're not only:
a). Saying the Earth can support the mass of the entire Universe
but also:
b). You can clearly draw a comparison between the effect of Hyperion's palms, and the omnipotent Infinity Gauntlet. Clearly.

What the hell?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The cascading energies of the two planets breaking destroyed the Universe(s). Such energy being tied to a planet doesn't make sense but there it s.
It's the effect of them touching, it has nothing to do with the energy of each planet.

Are we now of the opinion that each Earth in the Marvel Multiverse's total energy, if he would explode, would take their Universe with them?

Please, tell me, so I can add that to the already stupendous list of idiocies.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yeah, I totally get that but I said what I did because I remember Hickman clarifying the Infinity Gauntlet being purely Universal during his Fantastic Four run.

.....Unless that changed?

Yes. And?

Originally posted by Galan007
While I completely understand what you're saying, we must remember that Steve accomplished said feat with the IG, which vastly dissociates it with Hype's purely physical feat. Steve literally willed the entire universe to be pushed back, and used that earth as the focal point through which to apply his will. If one were so inclined, one could assume the earth wasn't destroyed in that scene because Steve willed it so-- that's why it didn't break, while the earths Hype held apart did. Just playing devil's advocate here. /shrug
How about you do us all a favor and keep your trap shut. sneer

Originally posted by Mindset
How about you do us all a favor and keep your trap shut. sneer

I'm just here for cheese analogies, and this is sorely lacking

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I'm just here for cheese analogies, and this is sorely lacking
I don't blame you. Cheese is truly one of life's great joys. It is, perhaps, the greatest food Jesus ever created.

But the another universe was like "in" 616 universe. Its not like Steve affected another universe, from our universe. Plus, the IG was destroyed after that...

Even in FF run, some Reed Richards could use the IG power in another universe, using a portal to original universe.

Originally posted by Galan007

Originally posted by Philosophía
Actually, me bumping this thread is similar to somebody reminding you how big of a moron you are, every few weeks when he has 15 minutes to spare on this thread.

I know right? 15 minutes of my time.

15 minutes of typing. 2 months of bitter weeping, teeth-gnashing, and self-loathing in-between. I've seen butthurt before. And you've taken it to new heights.
Originally posted by Philosophía
"Adjusting the moon's orbit" is an oversimplification of the fact that Ultraman accelerated the moon ridiculously so in order to block out the Sun in moments - so that the force required to do that far outshines Hyperion's Earth palming [and yes, it's Earth palming, not Universe palming].
Pushing a Moon into a new orbit isn't a greater strength feat than holding apart two Earths collapsing into each other via systemic multiversal collapse mechanics. Shut up. You can't justify it any any way at all. Or you would have.
Originally posted by Philosophía
It seems you can't read.

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/Avengers004-Zone-013_zps6b4c320d.jpg

I'll take it to you step by step.

Let us see:

1). The Earths are closing in on eachother ["..the worlds were about to touch..]
2). Hyperion goes between them, and holds them apart ["by the time the worlds were about to touch, he was all that remained of them.]
3). [b]Hyperion holds the worlds apart, but they break and the energy of the two Universes cascade into eachother, destroying everything.
["
..Until the worlds broke, the cascade energy collapsing two entire universes"] [/b]

The worlds broke not because of the strain Hyperion put on them, but because the time limit of the Incursion expired. If Earths break, via bombs or whatever, their respective universes are saved. So stop ignoring the clear rules that were painstakingly set up by Hickman, you unbelievably witless imbecile.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Now, dumby, instead of focusing on how the cascading of the Universes took place [which you're so desperately trying to divert the discussion to], the question pertaining to Hyperion's feat is actually why did the Earths break?. And yes, they did break - there's no doubt about that no matter how much you, in your imbecilic standpoing are trying to mislead.

The answer is: because they couldn't withstand the pressure.
Why the couldn't withstand the pressure?
Because, as anybody [well, except you and a few selected feeble-minded group] can attest to, [b]EARTH CAN'T WITHSTAND THE UNIVERSE'S MASS PUSHING ON IT WITHOUT BREAKING
[/b]

Except when it did in the Cap scene and in the Hyperion scene. Because the completely dispositive fact remains: if you break an Earth, via an anti-matter bomb, or Galactus snacking, or even a hypothetical Superman stress-fracturing... the universes are spared destruction. That's the rule. Destroy the Earth, save the universe. If the universes are destroyed, either the Earths touched or the time limit ran out. It cannot be because an outside force destroyed them before either happened.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Thus, by any resonable conclusion [and basic physics], Hyperion withstood what the planet Earth can withstand, before breaking apart. And the breaking point of planet Earth is far, far below the entire mass of the Universe.

Is that, really so hard to understand?

Really? You're really trying to invoke "basic physics" in a fictional comic book scene where parallel universes are colliding into each other via Incursion points that just so happen to be totally Earth-centric and one of the comic book characters says something like this:

Originally posted by Philosophía
Are you really going to continue with this blatant "Earth can withstand the Universe's mass!" in order to hype (heh) Hyperion's feat?

Because this is, like I said, the worst argument in the history of KMC.

I'm embarrased for you.

Are you going to completely ignore the rules Hickman created that utterly disprove Hyperion's strength fractured the Earths and the Cap situation that blatantly stated the entire universe was pushed back by focusing on pushing the Earth? Not to mention that moving the Moon from its orbit is somehow more impressive than keeping two collapsing Earths apart from each other while two universes blow up in your face.

You've become a complete joke.

I'm not embarrassed for you. Because I've known for a long time that your hypocritical antics would catch up to you in a spectacular explosion of asininity that will serve as fodder for richly deserved ridicule for some time to come.

Originally posted by Philosophía
You're a funny assh0le, until it's clear you're just being an assh0le [i.e. now]. Are you just trolling me?
Coming from the guy who keeps wanting to talk about balloons, tanks and now various cheeses... Branlor Swift is somehow the assh0le in the conversation?

Way to jump the shark, Philosophia.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Well, a single planet should not in anyway be durable enough to be a focal point for the moving mass of an entire Universe but it is. And as we saw in the Captain America scene, he was able to push the entire Universe away by pushing on the Earth.

Clearly, in an incursion zone, the Earth's seem to be able to withstand an unnatural amount of pressure before finally collapsing. Or maybe the writer just doesn't care, either way, it's happening. After all, the cascading energies behind the earth were enough to collapse their respective Universes:
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww99/Strangerinthenight/Newer/Avengers004-Zone-013_zps6b4c320d.jpg

Philo seems to be completely ignoring these points. Not to mention arguing that Ultraman's moon feat was superior. 😐

Just so we're clear, nobody is accusing Philosophia of being absent-minded. He knows these facts. He's just willfully disallowing their probative value to this discussion by deflecting onto balloons, tanks and various cheeses. He knows that if he takes the full context of how Incursions work, his credibility deflates like balloons, his pretense gets blown out of the water by a tank and his overall argument falls to pieces... of cheese.
Originally posted by Galan007
While I completely understand what you're saying, we must remember that Steve accomplished said feat with the IG, which vastly dissociates it with Hype's purely physical feat. Steve literally willed the entire universe to be pushed back, and used that earth as the focal point through which to apply his will. If one were so inclined, one could assume the earth wasn't destroyed in that scene because Steve willed it so-- that's why it didn't break, while the earths Hype held apart did. Just playing devil's advocate here. /shrug
Because we assume facts that are nowhere intimated simply because. Steve pushed the Earth away. Reed said it was literally like pushing the Universe away. Because it was. The disbelief that the Earth could end up supporting a universe's weight isn't so unbelievable when you step back and remember what you're reading: a fictional comic book situation where simply blowing an Earth up spares universal destruction and where two Earths merely touching completely blows up two entire universes.

At what point was that lost on you? Because I know it was lost by Philosophia as soon as a character other than Superman did it. Oops, I didn't mean that the way it sounded.

... no wait, yes I did. What's your excuse, then?

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't blame you. Cheese is truly one of life's great joys. It is, perhaps, the greatest food Jesus ever created.
I have a feeling that Phildo will unload the mother of all cheese analogies between now and two months now that odg has replied.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I have a feeling that Phildo will unload the mother of all cheese analogies between now and two months now that odg has replied.
😂

Originally posted by ODG
Because we assume facts that are nowhere intimated simply because. Steve pushed the Earth away. Reed said it was literally like pushing the Universe away. Because it was. The disbelief that the Earth could end up supporting a universe's weight isn't so unbelievable when you step back and remember what you're reading: a fictional comic book situation where simply blowing an Earth up spares universal destruction and where two Earths merely touching completely blows up two entire universes.

At what point was that lost on you?

"Lost on me". Lol, because I'm the fella taking this crap to heart, right? Crikey.

Anywho, Please explain to me why the Earth Steve pushed back was left fully intact, while both Earths Hyperion was palming crumbled under the pressure. Did the universe Steve pushed back just weigh a lot less...or could that omnipotent glove he was wearing have had something to do with it..? Just maybe? mmm

^ I went over this with leonidas already on page 4 of this thread. But I'll repost it again for your sake:

Originally posted by ODG
On this, the Earth serving as the focal point of the IG's energies doesn't necessarily contradict what Hyperion did at all. Each Incursion lasts a finite amount of time, at which point both Earths are destroyed. This time limit is why Dr. Strange and Iron Man yelled at Cap w/IG, that it isn't enough to just stop the Earth from advancing, you have to push it away along with its universe and send it back to it's proper place in the Multiverse to end the Incursion's threat:

Had Cap just kept it suspended in place like Hyperion did, both Earths would have been destroyed eventually even if they weren't touching. Hyperion wasn't strong enough to push the other Earth along with its universe away. That is why he (Hyperion) failed, and the Gems didn't.

Originally posted by ODG

At what point was that lost on you? Because I know it was lost by Philosophia as soon as a character other than Superman did it. Oops, I didn't mean that the way it sounded.

... no wait, yes I did. What's your excuse, then?

😂 😂

So you are of the opinion that the earths Hype was palming broke because they 'timed out', and not because they were unable to support universe-weight?

^ Yes. Because if they broke by Hyperions' strength fracturing them before the time limit ran out, the universes would have been saved. Just like they're saved when Earths are blown up by antimatter injection bombs or Galactus' feeding, etc. before those time limits are up. We both recognize that's the rule, right? Now normally, proving the negative is an unfair burden. But in this case, I have the ability to do so because of the rules set up by Hickman. The Incursion timed out, the universes died. Beginning with the respective Earths as their focal points. Philosophia tried to cast doubt onto this dispositive fact by talking about cheese trucks and pieces of cheese globbing into each other once they blow apart, but as we've seen from the Mapmaker scenes, he was just being ignant.

Again, this shouldn't serve as some stumbling block to your suspension of disbelief. The Earths are already being pushed by their universes into other universes. The incredible pan-dimensional strain of that simple fact should be tearing the entire galaxy apart, let alone the Earths, even without Hyperions around to make a last stand. So, again, there should be nothing baffling about an Earth serving as a focal point for the fate/weight of its entire universe.

Because that's exactly the situation Hickman set up.