Originally posted by TheHulkster
We are not talking about information or knowledge and the idea that the universe is destroyed "gradually" is not supported by the books and not stated in your definition above.But what we are talking about is an "energy cascade" which is "the transfer of energy from large scales of motion to the small scale".
So he didn't survive and instant energy wave which destroyed everything at once.
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Originally posted by TheHulkster
Oh and the scene in the scan above retcons anything contradictory in the first issue. So the universe is dead and Hyperion lives.
Originally posted by carver9
Adam didn't have the yellow ring when he fought Ultraman. Adam is also a ft less character who doesn't compare to High Evolutionary. What other ft does Ultraman have for him to win this?
How is he featless again?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, the universes were not destroyed in one fell swoop. They were destroyed in a gradual basis as the cascading energy destroyed things after things.So he didn't survive and instant energy wave which destroyed everything at once.
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Nothing is retconned. Those are just two different versions of the same story. Hence the ambiguity.
Completely made up. Everything in this explanation indicates immediate total destruction once the planets make contact. Cite anywhere where it is stated that a long gradual process ensues once the planets make contact.
There is no ambiguity. The second telling of the story takes precedence and is shown as well as told in detail. The first issue is more of a speech to describe the legend.
Originally posted by abhilegend👆
Adam casually owned Shazam, killed the entire circle of eternity who were the one giving Phantom Stranger, Pandora and Question their power and then with Parallax moved the moon away.How is he featless again?
Pandora also stated that the Circle of Eternity represented "a higher power" than even Spectre.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Completely made up. Everything in this explanation indicates immediate total destruction once the planets make contact. Cite anywhere where it is stated that a long gradual process ensues once the planets make contact.There is no ambiguity. The second telling of the story takes precedence and is shown as well as told in detail. The first issue is more of a speech to describe the legend.
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Originally posted by carver9
He temp stopped both Universes from Colliding.
by stopping the EARTHS from touching. as was said, no less than 3 times in the hype scans. but strangely, never shown clearly....
No getting around this.
pfft.
When the Earth's are destroyed, the Universe stops moving forward.
(a) when the earths are destroyed the INCURSION point is eliminated so the universes never touch.
(b) there is no proof ANYWHERE, not even an allusion to the fact that the universes "stop moving forward". i'd think that is totally false. they simply don't interact in the same space. they could easily just keep moving by each other without touching.
There's no getting around this.
that's easier to get around than your first point. 👆
Cap hit the earth with the Gauntlet PUSHING TH3 EARTH AND THE UNIVERSE BACK. The Gauntlet was used for nothing but PUSHING THE EARTH BACKWARDS.
this is true, but what is UNKNOWN, and unknowable, is the nature of the "push". you and other are equating it with the act of physically pushing. it is illogical imo to think the IG would act the same way a strong guy would.
There's no getting around this.
of course there is, and the way around is completely reasonable.
Hype stopped two Universes from Colliding until both Earth's crumbled.
as i said, that's true and he did so by keeping the INCURSION points separated--very briefly. and how did he do that--by keeping the WORLDS apart (somehow) as was stated no less than 3 times in his scans.
There is no getting around this. [/B]
you're right--my sequence of events is undeniable. 👆
pg at least offered up a sense of events that can't really be argued against when he simply said he thinks the whole thing is metaphysical--there is no good reason the earth=universe. it's just comics so that's that.
that is a POV that can't be argued. i disagree with it, but i can't argue it. all your points boil down to the same thing carv. the feat makes no sense (an earth can't withstand the force of a universe, even stranger, an earth can't control the movement or lack of movement of an entire universe--like i said, that would mean 616 earth ALSO controls the movement of the entire 616 universe and THAT makes a lot of sense.....) but if you fall back on meta physical explanations, or "it's comics" then there is no real point in anyone arguing the feat.
it is odd, again, that hype could interact physically with a supposed metaphyscial event, but, yeah, comics i guess.
beyond ALL that, didn't hickman himself say he would revisit the feat to explain it, and didn't say we're MISSING information still?? so how can anyone on the universe side claim he held '2 universes apart' with any for of certainty, when even the WRITER says we're missing information?? we also know physics kind of breaks down around incursions, so again, that in itself is enought to throw tons of ambiguity on the feat. the only real "fact" that EITHER side should be able to establish beyond doubt is "we really DON'T know exactly wtf happened there!!1!"
anyone claiming anything else with a sense of certainty is kidding themselves. /shrug
bottom line: the feat will never really count for much in any event as it is such a blatantly gross outlier and so clearly debatably ambiguous.
Originally posted by leonidas👆
this is true, but what is UNKNOWN, and unknowable, is the nature of the "push". you and other are equating it with the act of physically pushing. it is illogical imo to think the IG would act the same way a strong guy would.
It was later revealed that Cap essentially time-dumped the planet thousands of years in the future:
http://i.imgur.com/qjGzRAY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ivG2oZH.jpg
IOW, he pushed the planet out of phase with the universes, which prevented that incursion from happening. He didn't physically push anything back or w/e.
lol yah, that would definitely NOT have been done via physical force..... and unless there's something i'm missing, that should pretty much end any issue of conflating the IG/hype's feat. 👆
one last thing--weren't there supposed to be different types of incursions, or am i not remembering that correctly....? 😕
Originally posted by Galan007
👆It was later revealed that Cap essentially time-dumped the planet thousands of years in the future:
http://i.imgur.com/qjGzRAY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ivG2oZH.jpgIOW, he pushed the planet out of phase with the universes, which prevented that incursion from happening. He didn't physically push anything back or w/e.
That is not the other Earth that Cap pushes away during the incursion. That is the rogue planet that is hurtling toward Earth that Hyperion catches and is tethered to Earth by Thor striking the anchor.
The rogue planet is sent toward Earth from the future in anticipation of Stark having it tethered. One of Stark's descendants also travels to the present to give him the technology to do it as part of the plan.
In the scene above, Cap has traveled to the future and is witnessing them preparing to send the planet back in time to present day.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
That is not the other Earth that Cap pushes away during the incursion. That is the rogue planet that is hurtling toward Earth that Hyperion catches and is tethered to Earth by Thor striking the anchor.The rogue planet is sent toward Earth from the future in anticipation of Stark having it tethered. One of Stark's descendants also travels to the present to give him the technology to do it as part of the plan.
In the scene above, Cap has traveled to the future and is witnessing them preparing to send the planet back in time to present day.
WTF. So GALAN lied?
