Originally posted by Zack M
Peak DD would clobber Superman, though.
The one that appeared in rebirth is strong. Clearly DD is stronger than DOS DD by Superman's own admission. However, would be beat Superman? IDK!
That fight wasn't really full on considering the circumstances
Originally posted by Galan007
Jurgens undoubtedly intended it to be THE Darkseid. Nothing even hints at it being an avatar in that instance.
Squall claims that it was retconned into being an Avatar. I was under the same impression as you until I heard it. According to him, Superman and Doomsday have never defeated Darkseid.
Originally posted by TheHulkster
My statement has no similarity in logic to what you reference.
Mangog has been referenced in a fight to be speedy, by observation.
DoS Doomsday was referenced in a fight to be speedy, by observation.
Therefore, logically, Mangog/Doomsday are speedy.
That is the similarity.
Are there differences? Of course. But to assert there is NO similarity, is incorrect.
Originally posted by StoicHe's wrong. Like others have before him, Squall is undoubtedly using the scene from New Gods v3 #15 to try and prove his point... And that is a horribly flawed line of reasoning.
Squall claims that it was retconned into being an Avatar. I was under the same impression as you until I heard it. According to him, Superman and Doomsday have never defeated Darkseid.
NO evidence retcons the Darkseid we saw in H/P into an avatar -- as mentioned, Jurgens clearly intended it to be THE Darkseid. Granted, Darkseid does use avatars on occasion to act when his attention/focus must be divided, but he obviously does not use them *all* the time. In fact, Darkseid himself explicitly stated that he prefers NOT to use avatars, because they are so much weaker than his true form.
That said, it is illogical to try and blanket all of his previous appearances as avatars -- each showing must be evaluated on a case by case basis... And you won't find any evidence stating that Darkseid was an avatar in H/P specifically. None.
Originally posted by Galan007
He's wrong. He is undoubtedly using the scene from New Gods v3 #15 to try and prove his point... And that is a horribly flawed line of reasoning.Nothing retcons the Darkseid we saw in H/P into an avatar -- as mentioned, Jurgens clearly intended it to be THE Darkseid. Granted, Darkseid does use avatars on occasion to act when he is otherwise occupied; but he obviously doesn't use them *all* the time(Darkseid himself has actually said that he prefers NOT to use avatars, because they are so much weaker than his whole.)
That said, it is illogical to try and blanket all of his previous appearances as avatars -- each showing must be viewed on a case by case basis... And you won't find any evidence alluding to Darkseid being an avatar in H/P specifically. None.
The evidence is clearly, that he lost to Doomsday 👆
Originally posted by DarkSaint85He did indeed. Legitimately.
The evidence is clearly, that he lost to Doomsday 👆
Not surprising, as this was the same DD who ragdolled a massively amped MB Superman, killed Radiant, nearly killed Waverider, tanked Darkseid's OE, tanked Orion's Astro-Force, stomped the combined JLA easily, etc.
On that note, I'm pretty sure the DD we saw during OWAW(the one who beat Mongul to within an inch of his life, and shredded through numerous Imperiex Probes) was H/P-era DD as well...
Originally posted by Galan007
He did indeed. Legitimately.Not surprising, as this was the same DD who ragdolled a massively amped MB Superman, killed Radiant, nearly killed Waverider, tanked Darkseid's OE, tanked Orion's Astro-Force, stomped the combined JLA easily, etc.
On that note, I'm pretty sure the DD we saw during OWAW(the one who beat Mongul to within an inch of his life, and shredded through numerous Imperiex Probes) was H/P-era DD as well...
Which DD reformed itself after Tim drake blew it up with a kryptonian bullet?