Doomsday vs Mangog

Originally posted by Galan007
He's wrong. Like others have before him, Squall is undoubtedly using the scene from New Gods v3 #15 to try and prove his point... And that is a horribly flawed line of reasoning.

NO evidence retcons the Darkseid we saw in H/P into an avatar -- as mentioned, Jurgens clearly intended it to be THE Darkseid. Granted, Darkseid does use avatars on occasion to act when his attention/focus must be divided, but he obviously does not use them *all* the time. In fact, Darkseid himself explicitly stated that he prefers NOT to use avatars, because they are so much weaker than his true form.

That said, it is illogical to try and blanket all of his previous appearances as avatars -- each showing must be evaluated on a case by case basis... And you won't find any evidence stating that Darkseid was an avatar in H/P specifically. None.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The evidence is clearly, that he lost to Doomsday 👆

Thanks for that break down.

Originally posted by Galan007

On that note, I'm pretty sure the DD we saw during OWAW(the one who beat Mongul to within an inch of his life, and shredded through numerous Imperiex Probes) was H/P-era DD as well...

How well would Mangog do in OWAW?

Mongul vs Mangog?

Mangog vs Probes?

Mangog vs JL?

Mangog vs the beam that turned DD to bones?

Originally posted by Stoic
How well would Mangog do in OWAW?

Mongul vs Mangog?

Mangog vs Probes?

Mangog vs JL?

Mangog vs the beam that turned DD to bones?

BUt that will change by thor 705

He would chew through the probes

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He'd destroy Mongul, the proves, and most of the JL

BUt that will change by thor 705

How well do you think that DD would do against War Thor using Ultimate Mjolnir to blast DD in his mouth like he did to Mangog?

Would this even be remotely competitive?

Originally posted by Stoic
How well do you think that DD would do against War Thor using Ultimate Mjolnir to blast DD in his mouth like he did to Mangog?

Would this even be remotely competitive?

If by issue #705, Mangog gets defeat by Jane Thor (who dies in the process), then my opinion will change.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
That specific War Thor didn't really have any insane feats. If i remember correctly, Jane Thor was matching him without going all out. With that said, Peak DD (that took hits from DS) would probably laugh at the attack as well.

If by issue #705, Mangog gets defeat by Jane Thor (who dies in the process), then my opinion will change.

Odin will likely debuff him again, and hammers will be all over him. What happens to Mangog when pure rage walks up to him? What about transmutation? Could he make DD as small as a chimp? Not sure you can compare DD to Thor because of character. Just think about all of fuel that DD would be feeding Mangog.

Originally posted by Phil
Yes, and also the same as DD Wars, when he casually tooled the entire JLA [in its most powerful incarnation.

At the end of the H/P series, Doomsday was seemingly perma-destroyed when Waverider and Supes dumped him into Entropy:
http://i.imgur.com/hLgtvoY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/U2XzzGe.jpg

However, that faux-death was retconned in DD-Wars, wherein we learned that Brainiac had actually saved Doomsday moments BEFORE he was unmade by Entropy:
http://i.imgur.com/0eQePdH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Qq3C6rU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jxeEh3T.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pcghcOb.jpg

ie. H/P Doomsday IS DD-Wars Doomsday.

With that in mind, at the end of DD-Wars the heroes were able to 'beat' Doomsday by dividing him between multiple teleportation booths at the JLA Watchtower -- essentially incapacitating/imprisoning him:
http://i.imgur.com/o9u7ORy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pqiTV9g.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QOYcrtG.jpg

And during OWAW, Manchester Black broke into the Watchtower, released DD from said teleportation booths, and pointed him toward the Imperiex Probes:
http://i.imgur.com/mXG5bK2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sd3k0J9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OBEGuZt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8TNuECZ.jpg

ie. DD-Wars Doomsday IS OWAW Doomsday.

tl;dr
H/P Doomsday IS DD-Wars Doomsday IS OWAW Doomsday. 🙂

Originally posted by Stoic
How well do you think that DD would do against War Thor using Ultimate Mjolnir to blast DD in his mouth like he did to Mangog?

Would this even be remotely competitive?

Hammer-sucking aside... DD would stomp the shit out of War Thor, tbh. 👆

Lol. I mentioned it due to Mangog's damage soak, and was wondering if DD would have been capable of withstanding the same assault without being harmed in the least, or would it have blown him apart from the inside out?

That was a crazy damage soak feat, so it's a pretty good question I think.

i'm not sure just how powerful that attack was tbh? it couldn't have been a full universal level blast, though that was alluded to. i dunno. do we take it as described? did he ever come close to achieving that level of attack before?

War Thor: "I am charged with the rage of an entire dead universe! Here, Mangog, taste for yourself!"

Even IF you take that statement at face value, and assume it isn't just hyperbole/purple prose, the next logical question would be: Exactly how much power does a "dead" universe really have..?

mmm

That just sounds like hyperbole to me.

That's exactly what is it...

Originally posted by Stoic
Lol. I mentioned it due to Mangog's damage soak, and was wondering if DD would have been capable of withstanding the same assault without being harmed in the least, or would it have blown him apart from the inside out?

That was a crazy damage soak feat, so it's a pretty good question I think.

DoS Doomsday survived a blast that tore a hole in reality....and HP Doomsday is only higher than that /shrug.

So we use one showing as a determination of someone power level?

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not sure just how powerful that attack was tbh? it couldn't have been a full universal level blast, though that was alluded to. i dunno. do we take it as described? did he ever come close to achieving that level of attack before?

You remember what it took to put DOS Doomsday down right? If we took it at face value, and then looked at how easily he crushed Ultimate Mjolnir, bit off the Destroyers arm, and shattered Hofund, it may not be that far off mark. I've always seen these two on completely different levels of power. But the implications of Superman then come into question, which is likely what most people will argue.

DD is a rage monster though, so guess what he's going to do to Mangog?

Originally posted by carver9
So we use one showing as a determination of someone power level?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Is that what you and RT have done for sentry....
😂

Fighting at statue level speeds?

Originally posted by Stoic
You remember what it took to put DOS Doomsday down right? If we took it at face value, and then looked at how easily he crushed Ultimate Mjolnir, bit off the Destroyers arm, and shattered Hofund, it may not be that far off mark. I've always seen these two on completely different levels of power. But the implications of Superman then come into question, which is likely what most people will argue.

DD is a rage monster though, so guess what he's going to do to Mangog?

you've always seen mangog and dd on different levels? you figured mangog was more powerful?