Originally posted by Petrus
Are you saying Windu's superiority in the sabers department compared to the other Masters isn't made clear?
Both, Windu and Sidious are far above people lik Fisto, Tiin or Kolar. But only Plapatine and probably Yoda are able to blitz them. Windu, just like Dooku, isn't able to do that. Windu dueled Ventress at the beggining of CW (she was arround Fisto's level). He also wasn't able to blitz Bulq.
In the novel, Windu isn't as fast as Palpatine. Only his sword is. And that speed is necessary to easily overcome three Masters on Fisto's or Kolar's level.
With a vaapad, one never knew how many tentacles it had until it was dead: they move too fast to count. Almost too fast to see. So did Mace's blade.
Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still abit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back thedarkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade,that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: anoblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.
The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine?
Anakin was able to see Mace clear, but Palpatine was a "blur of speed" for him.
Mace wasn't as fast as Sidious, but he was a bit better technically, and his sword moved faster then Sidious' sword.
I disagree,....with the non factor...that's a joke.
Mace was second to Yoda...
the non factor is Dooku,who was no where near equal to Yoda or Mace....
he was just a temp. place holder ... the face of the Sith...Proxy...his time been up.....
@Petrus I agree.
@DP I agree with some of what you're saying....
Originally posted by juyomaster34
I disagree,....with the non factor...that's a joke.
Mace was second to Yoda...
the non factor is Dooku,
Dooku proved he was clearly not a "non-factor" against Yoda in AOTC.
Originally posted by juyomaster34
who was no where near equal to Yoda or Mace....
Whoaaa, so now not only is Mace above Dooku, but it's not even close?
The Windu loving needs to seriously tone down.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Completely unprepared?He knew he was off to arrest "The Sith Lord," and was warned by Skywalker about how powerful he is.
Sure, Skywalker warned him and told him he was powerful. However, nobody would've expected that he would blitz three of the most "celebrated swordsmen" of the Order, and kill them in mere seconds. No matter how cautious he was, he never expected that kind of power.
Of course Mace is superior to those other Masters. By miles.I'm just pointing out Sidious could possibly have bested Mace in the Saber fight within those first 30 seconds if not for those 3 Masters. Lasting 20-30 seconds is much much better than getting blitz like the others.
We agree on the fact that it could've made a difference, maybe. But we'll never know for certain. It's a 50/50 chance imo.
And if the one on one fight starts off with some distance in an open arena, allowing Force Powers to also come into play, then Sidious's chances of winning against Mace become very high Imo.
Agreed.
It was due to Vapaad, Shatterpoint(agree with you there), but also to do with the circumstances of the fight Imho.Circumstances are everything. You can have Kenobi struggling against Maul/Opress individually, but then under the right circumstances defeat the 2 of them combined.
That is exactly why being in close-quarters affected the outcome of the fight and why I believe that with more separation and more room for Sidious to unleash his Force powers would've most likely given him the win. It was circumstance.
Just agreeing it's a possibility, as the ROTS novel also hints at the same, when Mace is deflecting the FL back at Sidious.Would also explain why Yoda failed to overpower Sidious's FL, after disarming him of his Saber, but Mace seemed to have Sidious at his mercy after disarming him. (Or it could just be because Sidious was faking his FL weakness against Mace).
But it's not consistent with any other Force-user being hit by lightning in the mythos, unless you can argue Luke became more powerful after ROTJ Palps used it on him and that AOTC Anakin became more powerful when Dooku did the same.
Originally posted by Petrus
But it's not consistent with any other Force-user being hit by lightning in the mythos, unless you can argue Luke became more powerful after ROTJ Palps used it on him and that AOTC Anakin became more powerful when Dooku did the same.
I'm assuming it would be the final part of FL Mastery and not the first.
So no I don't think Sora Bulq, Asajj Ventress and Padawan Skywalkers all became more powerful as soon as they were given a shot of Lightning.
All this zone anakin loving needs to be seriously put down....like so many threads ago
Dooku only mattered for what?
To try...and I do mean try to kill Yoda?
He could barely keep up with Yoda...
In the Force and in Sabers...he knew if he had kept fighting he would tire before Yoda...of course...
And he failed to beat Yoda...twice...which Sids did....
I also don't agree with if the Force powers were involed Sids would win...
There were Force powers involed and Mace countered those powers w/Vaapad
how many times do I or any other site have to say that it is more than just a light saber style....
it's a state of mind...a tangible power...
Vaapad does use the Force just as heavy as any other style say....Niman
And its Force use is Combative...
So Sids using Force powers which is and was FL proves even w/that he still couldn't beat Mace
it took Anakin and Sids to beat him....
Ok if TK was involved no biggie...it will either be countered or matched through Vaapad...
just like Force speed was involed...through Vaapad Sids speed was matched....
I kno the book said Sids was a blur...then it said I guess from Anakin...not zone P.O.V.
that they both were a blur and fading in and out of existence....
From all my research and personal research nothing says Vaapad is not Force heavy or that it
is a Power and etc.
I kno if Vaapad was his only gift the fight would have lasted forever...
but Vaapad was not his only gift... he had shatterpoint...he had his mastery of the Force.
An impasse? can be broken...
The impasse was broken when he made Sids lower his speed a bit...
The impasse was broken when he kicked his Saber out his hands....
And finally the impasse was broken when Sids tried FL and it was countered by Vaapad's
SCL ....at this point Sids almost pushed Mace's Saber to his face...
so what does Mace do? tap into Vaapad a little bit more to give him the strength he needs to
to hold his Saber away from his face and keep redirecting the FL......
everybody loves the he ate the o zone crap...doesn't matter...
what mattters is even with FP...which was FL and FS....Sids still didn't win...
Vaapad proved that....imho...
All it proved that Sids needed Anakin to beat Windu...his diversion/deception...
same why Bulq used Anzati assassins to distract Rancisis in order to kill him..
And now that the true master swordsman has been killed...Yoda wouldn't be too much of
a problem...imho,which he wasn't....just like the book said Yoda just didn't have it....
What the book meant by "it"...was that Yoda didn't have the "it" factor...to beat Sids...
he didn't say he won...he said he failed...
imho Mace and Yoda together can beat Sids...Anakin,not zone...try Sith..will be taken out the
fight either by TK like the red guard and Sora Bulq or crippled like his duel with Obi Wan...