Superman DCNU VS Silver Surfer

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The narration very specifically said that Superman was hitting H'el with punches that could topple mountains. If you want to assume that for some reason that this isn't the case and that each strike was getting stronger, you're going to need proof.

Earlier, I thought that Superman bench pressing the Earth might be evidence (Circumstantial, indirect and inconclusive but still evidence) but the fact that Superman was outperforming his previous levels, I think it's pretty clear that the writer doesn't think Superman being able to bench press a planet means he can destroy one as well as illogical as that is.

Also, shrink those scans. So goddamn annoying. Shit like this should be bannable.

The proof is there, just use your common sense. If a mountain topples, is it felt in space and the core of earth? Who is the narrator? And as Dieslude said, is the punch the max energy output of this performance or the punches, the speed, the anger and durability? She didn't said his strength level are beyond what we previously recorded, just his levels, this wasn't a sole strength feat, it was a combat feat against an superior opponent, offense and defense.

How do you shrink it?

Pr can you shrink them for me 😄

Originally posted by Odekahn
You are entitled to your opinion. Just because you can't convince me to buy that snake oil you're selling doesn't mean we can't be civil.

Trying "subtly" (and failing) at trying to call me a liar and then "appealing" for civility only demonstrates your duplicitous nature further.

🙄

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The proof is there, just use your common sense. If a mountain topples, is it felt in space and the core of earth? Who is the narrator? And as Dieslude said, is the punch the max energy output of this performance or the punches, the speed, the anger and durability? She didn't said his strength level are beyond what we previously recorded, just his levels, this wasn't a sole strength feat, it was a combat feat against an superior opponent, offense and defense.

How do you shrink it?

Pr can you shrink them for me 😄

Common sense? The narration broadly describes Superman's punches as mountain toppling:
"He delivers blows that could topple mountains."

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119340/3323545-1264798079-super.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119340/3323544-4450294473-32208.jpg

There is literally nothing that supports your claim. This is a clear cut example of someone swinging harder and harder:

You have absolutely no evidence, not even a hint to support your stance but yet you have the nerve to talk about "common sense". As if your stance is clearly the obvious one. At least if you admitted that you have no real evidence and it's just your opinion, I could respect that, but you're passing off your unsupportable position as fact.

What? The researcher explicitly said that he was more powerful than previously recorded. She was obviously talking about the strength he was unleashing on H'el. Seriously, lol. And yet you want to talk about common sense.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The proof is there, just use your common sense. If a mountain topples, is it felt in space and the core of earth? Who is the narrator? And as Dieslude said, is the punch the max energy output of this performance or the punches, the speed, the anger and durability? She didn't said his strength level are beyond what we previously recorded, just his levels, this wasn't a sole strength feat, it was a combat feat against an superior opponent, offense and defense.

How do you shrink it?

Pr can you shrink them for me 😄

Superman was hitting H'el over and over while H'el was pressed against the Earth. If those were "planet busting punches", shouldn't it, you know, bust the planet seeing as it was aimed towards a target that was pressed against said planet?

Use your common sense on that.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Common sense? The narration broadly describes Superman's punches as mountain toppling:
"He delivers blows that could topple mountains."

There is literally nothing that supports your claim. This is a clear cut example of someone swinging harder and harder:

You have absolutely no evidence, not even a hint to support your stance but yet you have the nerve to talk about "common sense". As if your stance is clearly the obvious one. At least if you admitted that you have no real evidence and it's just your opinion, I could respect that, but you're passing off your stance as fact.

Here you said it yourself, your common sense brought to the onyl conclusion that both parties agree with.

1st Party, benchpressing planet, punches fight surprassing previous levels doesn't mean he can't hit with planetbusting force. This is illogical.

2nd Party, benchpressing is for the writer not enough to bust a planet. Though this is illogical.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
As illogical as that is.

So sure, both have their opinion and both agree that it's stupid and illogical, which in turn means that both parties think, someone who can benchpress a planet with ease for 5 dayws while depowering could destroy said planet.

Actually, you think that Superman can bust Planet ^^.

Oh and Rage, we just see the beginning of that fight and then the reaction of the people, unfportunately, so punches can intensify offscreen.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Superman was hitting H'el over and over while H'el was pressed against the Earth. If those were "planet busting punches", shouldn't it, you know, bust the planet seeing as it was aimed towards a target that was pressed against said planet?

Use your common sense on that.

Same is true for Giant WBH and Betty stomping FFF without destryoing Earth.

Read what I said. Use your common sense to fuse RL Logic and Comic Logic. And consider that this is the Earth where all stories take place,.

Originally posted by Odekahn
1. I think you are just butt hurt because Superman isn't as weak as you would like him to be.

2. Let's put this into terms that I'm hoping you will understand. Do you think that 5 pounds pressed against a pencil would be able to puncture a 5 pound water balloon? Would the pencil be able to perform as well as against a 5 pound steel weight? No, because of the different textures of the elements. Superman's skin bone and flesh are all stronger than any unknown element irl. It was nothing for him to benchpress the weight of the earth. He did it over and over and over. It's a matter of describing how hard he punches. If he can push a planet with his chest he can punch with the force of the weight of a planet.

2. None of this has anything to do with Superman busting a planet. Frankly, it has more to do with Wolverine's claws. Your sad analogy being busted isn't being repaired by this awful deflective nonsense. Punching with 1.5 lbs of force isn't going to allow me to bust a 1.5 lb. basketball. Benching =/= striking. And the comics only make that all the more clearer.

Originally posted by Odekahn
You are basically saying 1 feat of Superman's contradicts the other.

3. If you see any blood it's seeping between your legs. Take that pill.

You were the one who is in a bad mood for some reason, and everyone else sees it.

3. Why do I need a pill when it's just your anal leakage proverbially seeping around everyone's feet in this thread?

Originally posted by Diesldude
If a person can bench a planet the size of earth for 5 days without replenishment, is mountain level punches his max?

It was also mentioned that superman was operating at higher levels while fighting than while benching the planet weight. It doesn't mean he was applying full planet benching force to his punches.

Originally posted by Diesldude
When I'm benching it's both physical and mental. Same way when I'm on a weight bag and punching I'm focused and ready physically. This is still greater levels than i would be while posting here.

I agree with OdG that those were mountain busting punches but i don't think that those punches were his max.

With that said, superman wins.

I salute you.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Trying "subtly" (and failing) at trying to call me a liar and then "appealing" for civility only demonstrates your duplicitous nature further.

🙄

Then let me not be so subtle, I think you are either incapable of understanding what I'm saying, or you get the concept just you choose to ignore it. I don't really care which one it is, I was just letting you know even though you haven't convinced me of what you trying to show me, doesn't mean we can't still have good discussions in the future. You don't have to get mad about it.

Originally posted by Warlord
surfer drains the solar radiation of his body

As for comparing weight and density. Take a 4 lb cake, benchpress it, punch it, or get hit by it. That's more appropriate.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Sorry, Pr. The bigger discussion is whether Superman could be considered a planet buster, and if he could hit Surfer with a planet busting attack. We have been going over different tactics on each side and whether or not those attacks would work. Carver calls it being all over the place, I like to think of it as discussion progression, lol.

Oh, all right.

Okay, I don't mind people saying that DCNU Superman is a planet-buster. I actually think he is. You just have to use the totality of his feats to prove it.

You can't say "oh he bench pressed the earth, that alone proves planet buster".

As far as the "punching H'el" thing goes, actions have, for the most part, taken precedence over statements in comics. Now, if someone wants to work out the math and tell me how your maximum is toppling mountains and yet you can still hit so hard that people in space can feel it, then by all means, please show me.

Even taking that in to account, No ONE feat is enough to prove a character's status. There has to be consistency, which I believe Superman has, but then again that's my opinion.

You guys want to argue it out? Fine, be my guest. But take a more balanced approach, and stop being dicks to each other. Jesus, this the internet, not a zoo.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
As for comparing weight and density. Take a 4 lb cake, benchpress it, punch it, or get hit by it. That's more appropriate.

We don't need to compare anything, the comic flat out tells us how powerful the punches are.

Originally posted by Silent Master
We don't need to compare anything, the comic flat out tells us how powerful the punches are.

At the beginning and they don't tell us that it's the max.

Originally posted by ODG
1. Really? At a time when Hyperion is holding apart universes, Hulk obliterated a planet with collateral damage and Thor does the same, I'm the one who feels somehow slighted by recent comic trends?

2. None of this has anything to do with Superman busting a planet. Frankly, it has more to do with Wolverine's claws. Your sad analogy being busted isn't being repaired by this awful deflective nonsense. Punching with 1.5 lbs of force isn't going to allow me to bust a 1.5 lb. basketball. Benching =/= striking. And the comics only make that all the more clearer. No, I am saying that planet benching strength is not mutually exclusive of mountain toppling striking power. How do I know that? Because of comics.

3. Why do I need a pill when it's just your anal leakage proverbially seeping around everyone's feet in this thread? That's the rather obvious implication. If you can find a sensible way around it, share it with us. It's refreshing to see someone have a differing opinion without having to sh1t on the comic and butcher plain English.

I salute you.

1. It's stupid isn't it? No, I don't actually think that about you, but that's basically the same bs you are pulling on me by telling me I'm just mad cause I want superman to be stronger.

2. No the conversation is about whether Superman can hit the surfer with planet buster level attacks.

3. 0.o

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Here you said it yourself, your common sense brought to the onyl conclusion that both parties agree with.

1st Party, benchpressing planet, punches fight surprassing previous levels doesn't mean he can't hit with planetbusting force. This is illogical.

2nd Party, benchpressing is for the writer not enough to bust a planet. Though this is illogical.

So sure, both have their opinion and both agree that it's stupid and illogical, which in turn means that both parties think, someone who can benchpress a planet with ease for 5 dayws while depowering could destroy said planet.

Actually, you think that Superman can bust Planet ^^.

I think if Superman can bench a planet, then he should be capable of striking with greater then mountain toppling force.

But that's what I think. The writer very clearly disagrees so it really doesn't matter at all what you or I believe should be the case. And it most certainly doesn't mean we have to insert completely unsupported theories into the comic such as Superman was striking harder with each punch (Seriously, smh).

As a matter of fact, literally in the same comic where Superman bench pressed the planet, Superman took no chances and struck the Dragon with a blow that could topple a small mountain:

So that's two different instances that describe Superman's strength as mountain busting under that same writer, one in the very same comic you want to use as evidence of planet destroying strength.

I think you should take your own advice and use some common sense. 😬

I'm not saying it's impossible but planet destroying is a far cry from mountain toppling and it's pretty clear which way this particular writer is leaning unless you have evidence to the contrary?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Oh, all right.

Okay, I don't mind people saying that DCNU Superman is a planet-buster. I actually think he is. You just have to use the totality of his feats to prove it.

You can't say "oh he bench pressed the earth, that alone proves planet buster".

As far as the "punching H'el" thing goes, actions have, for the most part, taken precedence over statements in comics. Now, if someone wants to work out the math and tell me how your maximum is toppling mountains and yet you can still hit so hard that people in space can feel it, then by all means, please show me.

Even taking that in to account, No ONE feat is enough to prove a character's status. There has to be consistency, which I believe Superman has, but then again that's my opinion.

You guys want to argue it out? Fine, be my guest. But take a more balanced approach, and stop being dicks to each other. Jesus, this the internet, not a zoo.

Sry, I didn't mean to be offensive when I talked about common sense I tried to be polite, just don't know how to say it nicer. :/

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
At the beginning and they don't tell us that it's the max.

It tells us how powerful the punches are, if you want to claim that he can punch harder than that...post scans of him doing so.

Even in the real world, pressing power and punching power don't go hand-in-hand.

That being said, I do not agree that mountain-busting(a DBZ-level feat 😖hifty: ) is Superman's limit where striking power is concerned.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Sry, I didn't mean to be offensive when I talked about common sense I tried to be polite, just don't know how to say it nicer. :/

Huh?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Same is true for Giant WBH and Betty stomping FFF without destryoing Earth.

If that was the only evidence of their "foot stomping power" then we would no doubt conclude that their foot stomps at giant-size are not world-destroying.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Read what I said. Use your common sense to fuse RL Logic and Comic Logic. And consider that this is the Earth where all stories take place,.

And that is the problem. These are works of fiction. Just as a man weighing 800lbs (with no flying powers) shouldn't be able to push over building/trees (due to limitations in friction) or a man with no thrust shouldn't be able to fly, things in fiction don't really follow real world logic.

We use actual on-panel evidence in order to argue certain abilities a character can use based on how powerful it is was shown on panel.

What we DO NOT do is extrapolate what a character can do by simply using an instance wherein they used one of their abilities to perform one task and then using "real world logic" to justify them applying it to a completely different task at the level of the previous task just because we think that it would "make sense in a real-world kinda way".

Case in point: Surfer (with little effort at that) created a massive black hole. It takes a lot of energy to create a black hole (stellar-level at least, I think), do we then extrapolate that his energy generation abilities (and thus his energy blasts) strike at black-hole creation levels?

No, we base it on actual showings Surfer has when he uses his energy blasts.

Punching is not lifting. ESPECIALLY when evidence of the upper limits of his punching power is brought forward, we base our arguments on that.

What's worse, is that (apparently) in this world, according to the same person who gauged Superman's strength, being able to lift a planet requires less energy than smashing a mountain.

shrug