Superman DCNU VS Silver Surfer

Originally posted by Odekahn
Then let me not be so subtle, I think you are either incapable of understanding what I'm saying, or you get the concept just you choose to ignore it.

Really? Please, quote exaclty what I "didn't get" in "what you said".

Originally posted by Odekahn
I don't really care which one it is, I was just letting you know even though you haven't convinced me of what you trying to show me, doesn't mean we can't still have good discussions in the future. You don't have to get mad about it.

No, you called me a liar and then proceeded to appeal for civility. We call that hypocrisy where I come from.

Not mad, just pointing out your hypocrisy. Where exactly was there any indication of me being mad at anything I posted?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think if Superman can bench a planet, then he should be capable of striking with greater then mountain toppling force.

But that's what I think. The writer very clearly disagrees so it really doesn't matter at all what you or I believe should be the case. And it most certainly doesn't mean we have to insert completely unsupported theories into the comic such as Superman was striking harder with each punch (Seriously, smh).

As a matter of fact, literally in the same comic where Superman bench pressed the planet, Superman took no chances and struck the Dragon with a blow that could topple a small mountain:

So that's two different instances that describe Superman's strength as mountain busting under that same writer, one in the very same comic you want to use as evidence of planet destroying strength.

I think you should take your own advice and use some common sense. 😬

I'm not saying it's impossible but planet destroying is a far cry from mountain toppling and it's pretty clear which way this particular writer is leaning unless you have evidence to the contrary?

I get your point and I agree to some part. But let's just take into account, it's one writer and others might take another approach, the fight took then place off panel so it could get more intense, superman was depowered after 5 days when he punched the dragon, the blows were felt in space, it wasn't even his maximum (sure she says he is not holding back, an assumption as she was never able to find his limits), this is DC Earth, and most of all it's illogical and to some degree contradicting.

We might agree to disagree on some things but thank you for being polite^^.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I get your point and I agree to some part. But let's just take into account, it's one writer and others might take another approach, the fight took then place off panel so it could get more intense, superman was depowered after 5 days when he punched the dragon, the blows were felt in space, it wasn't even his maximum (sure she says he is not holding back, an assumption as she was never able to find his limits), this is DC Earth, and most of all it's illogical and to some degree contradicting.

We might agree to disagree on some things but thank you for being polite^^.

Just to point out:

Superman was about as "depowered" here as he was when he benched the planet-level weight, so going the whole "he was weaker here" route is kinda heading the wrong direciton.

Lol @ Batman Prime using WBH and Betty as a bench Mark...a calm Hulk last yr was wrecking Earth by punching someone in the stomach.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Really? Please, quote exaclty what I "didn't get" in "what you said".

No, you called me a liar and then proceeded to appeal for civility. We call that hypocrisy where I come from.

Not mad, just pointing out your hypocrisy. Where exactly was there any indication of me being mad at anything I posted?

I think you're taking what I'm saying more negative than it's meant. I just mean that I think you and I are talking about different things and miscommunicated early on in a rabbit trail. And I do think that in this particular case you are biased. That's my opinion. I am sorry that you are offended by it, but I don't have anything against you.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I get your point and I agree to some part. But let's just take into account, it's one writer and others might take another approach, the fight took then place off panel so it could get more intense, superman was depowered after 5 days when he punched the dragon, the blows were felt in space, it wasn't even his maximum (sure she says he is not holding back, an assumption as she was never able to find his limits), this is DC Earth, and most of all it's illogical and to some degree contradicting.

We might agree to disagree on some things but thank you for being polite^^.

I agree, it is just one writer and next week he could one shot a Multiverse for all anyone knows, but this is the same writer who wrote the Earth bench pressing scene and that's the primary evidence you're using to support Superman planetary striking power.

I simply think that is extremely flawed logic when we have direct evidence of Superman's striking power under that writer, and it is very much mountain toppling level.

What happens off-panel is called off-panel for a reason. I'm not going to assume Superman started unleashing planet destroying punches when nothing supports it.

Superman flew by the Sun:

And then spent the day at the Daily Planet or whatever so I don't think he was weakened or anything of the sort. Maybe his reserves weren't completely full but actually weaker? I'd need some evidence for that.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Just to point out:

Superman was about as "depowered" here as he was when he benched the planet-level weight, so going the whole "he was weaker here" route is kinda heading the wrong direciton.

So then you don't know how much harder the first punch would have been.

Originally posted by Odekahn
I think you're taking what I'm saying more negative than it's meant. I just mean that I think you and I are talking about different things and miscommunicated early on in a rabbit trail. And I do think that in this particular case you are biased. That's my opinion. I am sorry that you are offended by it, but I don't have anything against you.

Then you shouldn't be using the term "snake oil" as by using said term, you are implying that I am lying.

Snake oil
n.
1. A worthless preparation fraudulently peddled as a cure for many ills.
2. Speech or writing intended to deceive; humbug.

Source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/snake+oil

If that is not what you meant, then this looks like another instance where you've used terminologies (or subject matters) that you've had a poor understanding of and ended up erring.

As indicative of how you've been in this entire thread.

Originally posted by Odekahn
So then you don't know how much harder the first punch would have been.

Exactly. We don't know.

As you know, "we don't know" isn't really good evidence in any kind of debate.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I agree, it is just one writer and next week he could one shot a Multiverse for all anyone knows, but this is the same writer who wrote the Earth bench pressing scene and that's the primary evidence you're using to support Superman planetary striking power.

I simply think that is extremely flawed logic when we have direct evidence of Superman's striking power under that writer, and it is very much mountain toppling level.

What happens off-panel is called off-panel for a reason. I'm not going to assume Superman started unleashing planet destroying punches when nothing supports it.

Superman flew by the Sun:

And then spent the day at the Daily Planet or whatever so I don't think he was weakened or anything of the sort. Maybe his reserves weren't completely full but actually weaker? I'd need some evidence for that.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I agree, it is just one writer and next week he could one shot a Multiverse for all anyone knows, but this is the same writer who wrote the Earth bench pressing scene and that's the primary evidence you're using to support Superman planetary striking power.

I simply think that is extremely flawed logic when we have direct evidence of Superman's striking power under that writer, and it is very much mountain toppling level.

What happens off-panel is called off-panel for a reason. I'm not going to assume Superman started unleashing planet destroying punches when nothing supports it.

Superman flew by the Sun:

And then spent the day at the Daily Planet or whatever so I don't think he was weakened or anything of the sort. Maybe his reserves weren't completely full but actually weaker? No, I don't believe that is the case.

The flawed logic is in the comic itself or in the narration, that's why I prefer to isolate it and use well my common sense, this might differe but you feel it too, so it' cool.

I don't think so too, else earth would get destroyed, I just thing that his punches can intensify and that's why he got beyond his previous measured best.

And he says, he would like to stay longer to get the energy he lost in those 5 days but he does not have the time. So he couldn't restore it. Which means he wasn't at his best or full charged. Though then again, it's the same writer, no narration but this could mean nothing or something.

Personally I think that most writers don't give a damn about power leves, do what they want and don't care what we make their feats to be. They don't even seem to think about the logic or math behind it. Well, at least they entertain us^^.

Originally posted by Odekahn
1. It's stupid isn't it? No, I don't actually think that about you, but that's basically the same bs you are pulling on me by telling me I'm just mad cause I want superman to be stronger.

2. No the conversation is about whether Superman can hit the surfer with planet buster level attacks.

3. 0.o

2. Yes, and busted analogies concerning pencils and balloons have nothing to do with it. Stick to the comics.

3. o.O

Originally posted by Galan007
Even in the real world, pressing power and punching power don't go hand-in-hand.

That being said, I do not agree that mountain-busting(a DBZ-level feat 😖hifty: ) is Superman's limit where striking power is concerned.

"There’s a popular misconception that lifting HEAVY weights could increase punching power. Every month I see endless emails, forums, and websites full of fighters trying to rationalize the benefits of weights for fighting. Not surprisingly, many are written by guys with limited fighting experience. Weight training CAN build powerful muscles but won’t guarantee you powerful punches."

1. That says weightlifting won't increase punching power,. It's doesn't mean more strength wouldn't increase punching power. There are different things that wear and tear in the human body that can effect their speed and ultimately, punching power.

2. It says HEAVY weights.

3. Look at the last sentence in the quote excerpt. That is because technique is every bit as important as strength.

4. None of this applies to Superman.

5. Strength does increase punching power. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

6. Sorry, I keep numbering everything but it's the only way I remember all of my points, lol

7. None of that has anything to do with the point of my post.

Again: pressing power and punching power don't go hand-in-hand. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

Originally posted by ODG
1. What's stupid? You refusing to read plain English in a comic filled with pretty pictures?

2. Yes, and busted analogies concerning pencils and balloons have nothing to do with it. Stick to the comics.

3. o.O

1. It's stupid that you would want Superman to be less strong than he actually is. I don't actually think that and it would be stupid for me to say that and be serious. My point is that you basically were saying the same thing about me when you were insinuating that I was just mad because I wanted Superman to be stronger than he actually is in the comics.

2. How was it a bad analogy when I'm just trying to get the point across that Superman is more durable than the crust, mud, dirt and rock of a planet. And if he could effortlessly support the entire planet, and lift it, he could plow through it if he wanted to.

3. 0.0

Originally posted by Odekahn
1. It's stupid that you would want Superman to be less strong than he actually is. I don't actually think that and it would be stupid for me to say that and be serious. My point is that you basically were saying the same thing about me when you were insinuating that I was just mad because I wanted Superman to be stronger than he actually is in the comics.

2. How was it a bad analogy when I'm just trying to get the point across that Superman is more durable than the crust, mud, dirt and rock of a planet. And if he could effortlessly support the entire planet, and lift it, he could plow through it if he wanted to.

3. 0.0

2. Because you're the one who thinks benching 100 lbs. = punching 100 lbs. apart and that pencils and balloons have anything to do with this. And let me stop you right now, if you try to resurrect that retarded "balloons n' tanks" garbage I had to deal with a while back, I will punch you through the internet. I can only take so much stupid.

3. @.@

Originally posted by Galan007
7. None of that has anything to do with the point of my post.

Again: pressing power and punching power don't go hand-in-hand. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

Haha love the 7.

Pressing power and punching power both require strength, no? Strength plays a strong part is all I'm saying. They both go together. Punching power is going to be the technique.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Exactly. We don't know.

As you know, "we don't know" isn't really good evidence in any kind of debate.

But common sense can still let you know he was much more powerful on day 1. Also, he never maxed out in the bench press or got tired.

Originally posted by ODG
1. I don't deny that Superman benched Earth (because he benched its weight). I don't deny that Superman can topple mountains (even though he never did but the narration stated it). You can read whatever nefarious schemes into that all you want. But you can't prove benching a planet = busting a planet with a punch. Why? Because the comic basically disproved that.

2. Because you're the one who thinks benching 100 lbs. = punching 100 lbs. apart and that pencils and balloons have anything to do with this. And let me stop you right now, if you try to resurrect that retarded "balloons n' tanks" garbage I had to deal with a while back, I will punch you through the internet. I can only take so much stupid.

3. @.@

1. The point is that it was nothing for him to lift, and it is not the maximum measurement of what he could lift. It was the heaviest thing that they could get for him to lift in the comic, and that's why he was able to continuously do it without strain for five days straight. So he obviously has planetary level strength that he could use against the surfer which is the point of the whole thread. To say that you can lift the planet like it's nothing repeatedly yet is only able to topple mountains with his punches is basically saying that Superman's technique is complete and utter ass.

2. I never said pinching 100 pounds equals punching 100 pounds. I said that has to do with the density of the objects. But all I was saying was that if someone can bench 500 pounds then they can obviously punch greater then only 5 pounds worth of pressure. And that's a very small scale, we are talking about Superman and the amount of force it would take to level mountains versus the amount of strength it would take to benchpress the entire planet over and over . That is a pretty large discrepancy in my opinion.

3. Touché

I'm not sure you understand me correctly..? Just because Superman can sit there for days on end and bench press earth-equivalent weight, doesn't necessarily mean his individual punches pack the same amount of destructive force behind them.

Example: If I can bench press 300 pounds, it doesn't mean I can walk up to a 300 pound man and blow him apart with a punch.