Originally posted by ODG
And that's all you really need to know because many other martial artists, who are also more skilled than tony, cannot hit hard enough to hurt him. Cap, classic Iron Fist, Taskmaster, Psylocke, Black Panther, etc. False absolutist nonsense. You obviously choose to backhandedly dismiss Mandarin's career against other martial artists with your arbitrary quantification of "prolonged fights," but that's rather meaningless. Mandarin has overwhelmed Psylocke, Cap, Black Widow, Hellcat, etc with his karate. If Mandarin was superior to them by another level, as all his other exploits make it obvious, his fights with these other martial artists [b]shouldn't be prolonged affairs.[/b]
i've already addressed the cap issue. where did he overwhelm natasha? and he did get the better of psylocke, but that was hardly skill imo. she got in the better shots, he was simply more powerful. more powerful=/=more skilled.
And they haven't been. Res ipsa loquitur. The thing speaks for itself. Mandarin's H2H is just that good. Already addressed numerous times. Show me where Cap and Batman are sending a foe like Iron Man scrambling for their life with their judo and ninjutsu. Show me a perennial foe of their's, who constantly exhorts their martial arts without the David vs Goliath motif going. You've mentioned Namor for example. Does Namor run away from Cap's judo the same way Iron Man runs away from Mandarin's karate?
of course he doesn't make them run with his karate. cap is decidedly FAR below mandarin in level--his RINGS are what make him so fierce, and the personal power he has. take his rings away permanently, and you really think tony would "run away" from him? again, you overstate the impact of his skills on tony. ANY opponent cap faces KNOWS it's his martial skill that they must contend with. people who face mandarin know he's good in karate, but it's the rings they fear. that should be obvious to everyone.
You know he doesn't. We both know this. And I'm tired of you ineffectually just repeating points that have already been addressed. I can only shove these rebuttals in your face so many times. Yes, it is. Because you haven't shown me Cap or Batman constantly sending an Iron Man-level foe scrambling around with their martial arts nearly every time they fight or casually shattering steel and stone.
likewise i'm tired of you repeating the same thing--mandarin does well against tony ergo he must be far more skilled than anyone else. forgetting that he has superhuman stats. forgetting that he doesn't always hurt tony. forgetting that batman has kicked down trees, ripped open a steel vault, forgetting that cap has hurled his shield faster than a rocket and split cars in half and has a perfect defense against mandarin's striking power which is nothing special and nothing any street hasn't faced and beaten. you've even said IF is in his league, maybe better, but accuse me of straw-manning when we look at his record against other streets. shang chi has some GREAT chi feats as well. but if IF is in his league, by default mandarin is NOT tiers above guys like cap and the fact that you can both say IF is in his league AND he's tiers above cap really make your position completely untenable imo.
You need to take a step back and realize what you're doing. You're essentially arguing that consistently beating a foe who physically outclasses you by a longshot, isn't indicative of greater skill.
and again, his feats against a SINGLE superior foe. do we actually have to rehash the number of exceedingly superior foes guys like bats and dd and IF and cap and BP have defeated? and they also do so with skill, and far less personal power and no rings to bring to bare. T
hat beating other so-called top tier and second-tier martial artists consistently where they overwhelm them and make the fights incredibly brief, isn't indicative of greater skill.
would be. if it ever actually happened. can't believe you can say with a straight face he's beaten other top tier guys. that's a falsehood, plain and simple, not something we see from you.
That being capable of superhuman feats like casually shattering rock and steel, being able to survive for a year without food, water or sleep, being able to drain lifeforce through chi, isn't indicative of greater skill.
shattering rock and steel is nothing new to someone like iron fist. cap and others have similar feats. surviving a year is a great feat, one i've no doubt IF in particular could replicate.
THEN WHAT EXACTLY WOULD MAKE A GREATER MARTIAL ARTIST?That's a rhetorical question. We know what makes a greater martial artist. Better feats. And more of them. And Mandarin's got them. Your defense of an entire tier of comic martial artists is bordering on the absurd. Stop acting like an arbiter of what feats are allowed to make a better class of martial artist. Because the types of feats I'm talking about, do classify who the better martial artists are. [/B]
mandarin is a great martial artist, a master of his discipline no doubt, capable of great feats of chi control and striking power who can and has performed well against a superior opponent. name me someone in cap's calss of h2h that can't say the same thing? that also is rhetorical. IM does NOT run away from him h2h. spiderman used to terrorize titania, who massively outclassed him in power. THAT is someone who ran away. again, you're painting a false image of mandarin--if someone did for logan what you're doing for mandy, you'd have their head.
you're stance is really impossible to argue, because it's based on such a singular position. he hurt tony therefore mandarin>>anyone who isn't powerful enough to hurt tony. we must all forget about all other feats, by all other characters since in the few times they fought tony they didn't hurt him the same way. it's a myopic view. mandarin is vastly skilled, but being physically powerful enough to hurt tony=/=being more skilled than cap or IF or the others. but i get you don't see that so this has truly run its course for me. always entertaining odg.
^he lost, his sole argument is a feeble one and he knows it, circular logic, agressive/insulting behaviour and ignorance is everything he will vomit into this thread.
Originally posted by ODG
^ This thread involves Mandarin and Batman. Not Karnak and Black Panther.I'm not sure if this will clear anything up for you, as you seem to already be illiterate.
It's a better way to compare how the fight would go then Tony vs IM. This doesn't suit you well, I understand it, because your only argument is
Mandarin is tha superior!11 'couse he hurts Im through armoh! Woah!
Batman isn't fighting Tony, he doesn't have to. Batman isn't using IM Armor, because he doesn't needs to. Mandarin can be hurt by Batman, Batman can be hurt by Mandarin. It's exactly like the Karnak/BP fight. Mandarins superior striking powah vs Batmans superior h2h skills. The faster, better h2h fighter will win.
It can't be clearer or simpler then this BP/Karnak fight. You don't like being wrong, well, you are, grow up and live with it. Your only stance IM can be hurt, has no meaning in this discussion because everyone agrees that Mandarin can hurt Batman.
Originally posted by leonidasNo, you deflected rather weakly onto his H2H performance against Namor. Which are nothing like Mandarin's H2H performance against Iron Man. Mandarin fought the Avengers during Acts of Vengeance. Black Widow tried to jumpkick him and he deftly snatched her ankle and tossed her along with Hellcat. Deftly countering Psylocke's imminent psyblade attack and tossing her aside like a nuisance is a skill showing. Had Mandarin just flexed her off or used a forcefield to repel her, than it'd just be overpowering. So stop pretending to be an arbiter of what is and isn't a skill feat.
i've already addressed the cap issue. where did he overwhelm natasha? and he did get the better of psylocke, but that was hardly skill imo. she got in the better shots, he was simply more powerful. more powerful=/=more skilled.
Originally posted by leonidasMandarin has made Iron Man scramble for his life against his rings. He has also made him scramble for his life with his karate. I don't have the patience to countenance you blatantly lying about how Iron Man fares against the karate. There have been multiple, multiple instances of Iron Man running away, dodging for his life, tossing him aside, nearly blacking out, getting his armor torn up, and scrambling from his karate strikes. You don't get to lie that he hasn't.
of course he doesn't make them run with his karate. cap is decidedly FAR below mandarin in level--his RINGS are what make him so fierce, and the personal power he has. take his rings away permanently, and you really think tony would "run away" from him? again, you overstate the impact of his skills on tony. ANY opponent cap faces KNOWS it's his martial skill that they must contend with. people who face mandarin know he's good in karate, but it's the rings they fear. that should be obvious to everyone.
And if lies are all you have to avoid the obvious implications of your busted Cap vs. Namor analogy, then so be it. But it isn't worth my spit.
Originally posted by leonidasNo. Mandarin does well against Iron Man with pure H2H. Something many other master martial artists, like Iron Fist, Taskmaster, cannot do but have tried. Only Temugin. Mandarin also has inhuman striking power. Much more so than other street level master martial artists. Wolverine, Batman and Lady Shiva aren't shattering steel doors with karate chops. Mandarin has also pretty much dismissed or overwhelmed every single martial artist who's tried to tackle him H2H with his karate; like Cap, Psylocke, Black Widow, etc. Mandarin also can achieve inhuman feats with his chi such as surviving for years without food, water or sleep and stripping the lifeforce from someone. Daredevil, Nightwing, Black Panther cannot do that.
likewise i'm tired of you repeating the same thing--mandarin does well against tony ergo he must be far more skilled than anyone else.
This is what makes him a superior martial artist. Because he can do things they cannot with his martial arts. These are things that count. They aren't things you blatantly ignore just because you're offended that another tier exists beyond Batman and Cap.
Your insistence otherwise isn't rooted in anything more than a complete lack of knowledge concerning Mandarin -- something multiple scans haven't remedied -- and your own mental baggage.
Your repeated gibberish is duly noted, and dismissed.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeNobody cares what you think. But being reduced to peanut gallery antics has improved your posting. Mainly because at least you aren't spouting your own typical Butthurt Prime brand of horse manure and instead are trying to ride on someone else's coattails.
^he lost, his sole argument is a feeble one and he knows it, circular logic, agressive/insulting behaviour and ignorance is everything he will vomit into this thread.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeKarnak vs Black Panther has nothing to do with Mandarin vs Batman.
It's a better way to compare how the fight would go then Tony vs IM. This doesn't suit you well, I understand it, because your only argument is
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeIf that were the only argument, you'd have a point. As it stands, all you have is a worthless strawman.
Mandarin is tha superior!11 'couse he hurts Im through armoh! Woah!
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeSpeak English, plz.
Batman isn't fighting Tony, he doesn't have to.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeSpeak English, plz.
Batman isn't using IM Armor, because he doesn't needs to.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeSpeak English, plz.
Mandarin can be hurt by Batman, Batman can be hurt by Mandarin.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeMandarin is the better h2h fighter. Because of his 50+ years of martial arts feats that don't just include a long consistent career of inhuman striking power.
It's exactly like the Karnak/BP fight. Mandarins superior striking powah vs Batmans superior h2h skills. The faster, better h2h fighter will win.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeActually, your irrelevant butthurt and absolute inability to discuss Mandarin himself is very simple to see. Go ahead and discuss Black Panther vs Karnak to your heart's delight in their thread. They aren't interchangeable.
It can't be clearer or simpler then this BP/Karnak fight. You don't like being wrong, well, you are, grow up and live with it. Your only stance IM can be hurt, has no meaning in this discussion because everyone agrees that Mandarin can hurt Batman.
And you obviously hate life because you can't even find Mandarin scans to work with. Why? Because they all ram the point in your thrice-violated bunghole that his martial arts acumen, can sh1t on Batman's. Because it does by feats.
Leave this conversation to those who can actually speak English and aren't rampantly butthurt trolls, ok? kinda
^You are angry because you don't like being wrong and exposed, ok. You can't counter an argument so you ignore it, fine with me^^.
As it seems, the people disagree with you.
BTW are you homophobic or are you secretly gay? Because you have an obsession with buttholes^^.
I pity you, though you make me laugh sometimes^^.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeI'm not angry. I'm just dealing with a butthurt troll who projects his own disappointment onto others. Am I supposed to welcome you with wide open arms? Are you seeking my approval? Is that it? You obviously are seeking my attention, despite being made aware that I don't care about you. Obsessive, much?
^You are angry because you don't like being wrong and exposed, ok. You can't counter an argument so you ignore it, fine with me^^.As it seems, the people disagree with you.
As it seems, you are very butthurt.
Originally posted by Batman-PrimeBecause a non sequitur deflection towards homophobia doesn't reveal how cornered you are on constructively discussing facts? This is the internet, son. I know when someone can't do sh1t but troll away because the discussion has gone so horribly wrong on so many levels, it's all you've got.
BTW are you homophobic or are you secretly gay? Because you have an obsession with buttholes^^.I pity you, though you make me laugh sometimes^^.
And I don't give a sh1t about you, so there's that. Please don't commit suicide though. If feebly begging my attention is all you've got in life, well... so be it.