Darth Vader vs. Darth Malgus · Star Wars Versus Forum

Intrepid37 Restricted

Since when did Malgus collapse buildings?

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

He pwned a guy who did with the Force. And blasted away the rubble of two buildings a Jedi collapsed on him.

Intrepid37 Restricted

You're telling me stuff I already know. I'll ask again, when did Malgus collapse buildings?

Petrus Debonaire Member

Hmmm. I think I'm leaning for Vader.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Does Malgus needs to collapse a building to prove his superiority over Vader?

By all accounts, Malgus is superior to Vader, but some fans are too blind to realize this fact. Vader is an iconic character for sure but he isn't such a powerhouse as some fans assume him to be.

Intrepid37 Restricted

I never said he had to collapse building to prove superiority, I asked for a claimed fact.

By all accounts, stop that bullshit. Vader is. just. better.

Ripping apart huge machines, throwing ships, knocking down huge trees, collapsing cathedrals?

Tearing off steel doors off ships, moving in blurs, moving faster than thought, producing four afterimages?

Vader draws and ignites his lightsaber faster than thought:

Faster than thought, Vader drew and ignited his light-saber.

-Galaxy of Fear: Clones

Vader moves his lightsaber faster than thought and in a blur:

The lightsaber hadn't been there, and then it was, and the lightsaber was a blur. Vader moved without seeming to move, and the lightsaber sliced into Roan, straight into his chest. Straight into his heart.

-Last of the Jedi: Secret Weapon

What about killing, what, five of seven Jedi that ambushed him, and that it was during the Purge, decades before he grew in skill and eventually peaked in RotJ?

Malgus has nothing on Vader. The only thing I question his lightning as it would definitely hurt Vader a lot, but Vader has his saber which should be sufficient.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Vader draws and ignites his lightsaber faster than thought:
Faster than thought, Vader drew and ignited his light-saber.

Obvious hyperbole is obvious.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
What about killing, what, five of seven Jedi that ambushed him, and that it was during the Purge, decades before he grew in skill and eventually peaked in RotJ?
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Fodder. Malgus has taken on better Jedi while wounded. Plus those Jedi wound him and almost kill him.

In the False Emperor flashpoint he brings the strike team to its knees with lightning and overpowers and throws them around, a team which consists of either the Hero of Tython and the Barsen'thor or Darth Nox and the Emperor's Wrath, any one of which is a good fight for Vader.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Malgus has nothing on Vader. The only thing I question his lightning as it would definitely hurt Vader a lot, but Vader has his saber which should be sufficient.

Ridiculous. Sidious claims Malgus' battlefield showings have never been duplicated.

Theres a reason a good chunk of the Empire supported Malgus as the Second Emperor and that reason is that he's a ****ing beast. Saying he has nothing on Vader is frankly idiotic.

Also saying Vader can block his lightning is unsubstantiated. I recall nothing that indicates Vader can block lightning of Malgus' intensity.

Intrepid37 Restricted

Originally posted by Nephthys
Obvious hyperbole is obvious.

Sure, and we can ignore it for all I care. Generating those afterimages is better.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Fodder. Malgus has taken on better Jedi while wounded. Plus those Jedi wound him and almost kill him.

Yeah, I'm sure he has.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In the False Emperor flashpoint he brings the strike team to its knees with lightning and overpowers and throws them around, a team which consists of either the Hero of Tython and the Barsen'thor or Darth Nox and the Emperor's Wrath, any one of which is a good fight for Vader.

Sounds kind of non-canon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ridiculous. Sidious claims Malgus' battlefield showings have never been duplicated.

Right, and I guess he's above the Emperor himself.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres a reason a good chunk of the Empire supported Malgus as the Second Emperor and that reason is that he's a ****ing beast. Saying he has nothing on Vader is frankly idiotic.

The only thing he's got on Vader is lightning, and I have already said that he won't lose every time, but there's a very clear difference in every other category.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also saying Vader can block his lightning is unsubstantiated. I recall nothing that indicates Vader can block lightning of Malgus' intensity.

He blocked Marek's lightning? And this is assuming he will actually use lightning, which is questionable, as he didn't against Zallow.

sfriends23282 Restricted

Sure, and we can ignore it for all I care. Generating those afterimages is better.

What's this? Someone moved faster than a thought? You mean you found a user who utilized force speed? Wow

Sounds kind of non-canon.

Sounds like anything you don't agree with is non canon. While the gameplay mechanics of that flashpoint aren't canon, the flashpoint is. I've played it many times.

He blocked Marek's lightning? And this is assuming he will actually use lightning, which is questionable, as he didn't against Zallow.

Nice logic. He didn't use lightning against character A so there's little chance he'd use it against character B, nevermind the fact that he'll notice Vader is a cyborg at some point.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Sure, and we can ignore it for all I care. Generating those afterimages is better.

Then why mention it?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yeah, I'm sure he has.

👆

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Sounds kind of non-canon.

It happens in a cutscene.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Right, and I guess he's above the Emperor himself.

I'm pretty sure neither Emperor has ever stepped foot on a battlefield let alone fought on one.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
The only thing he's got on Vader is lightning, and I have already said that he won't lose every time, but there's a very clear difference in every other category.

Nah, Malgus is pretty awesome all round.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He blocked Marek's lightning?

Is that a question? Because I'm pretty sure I don't recall him doing that.

The_Tempest Senior Member

Nephthys
Ridiculous. Sidious claims Malgus' battlefield showings have never been duplicated.

Kindly explain the relevance of this to the greater discussion.

Nephthys
Also saying Vader can block his lightning is unsubstantiated.

Lightsabers block lightning. Revan can bat Vitiate's lightning around and Windu can keep Sidious's at bay. If you're asserting that Vader is incapable of blocking Malgus's energies with one, it's your burden to prove.

sfriends23282 Restricted

Except Revan couldn't bat Vitiate's lightning around when Vitiate turned it up, and Windu was about to slice his own head off with his saber when Sidious turned his up.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Windu wasn't going to slice his own head off. Re-watch the scene, his saber was moving towards Sidious.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Kindly explain the relevance of this to the greater discussion.

Intrepid claimed Malgus has nothing on Vader. I pointed out that quote, which is extremely high praise from Sidious and indicates Malgus is hardly as outmatched as Intrepid said. And it's not as if Sidious isn't intimately aware of Anakin's battlefield feats in order to compare them

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Lightsabers block lightning. Revan can bat Vitiate's lightning around and Windu can keep Sidious's at bay. If you're asserting that Vader is incapable of blocking Malgus's energies with one, it's your burden to prove.

Lightsabers can be overpowered. Malgus has overwhelmed lightsaber defenses twice, once in Deceived against Aryn Leneer and once in The Third Lesson against a powerful Jedi Knight capable of collapsing two buildings.

In this case it's yours and Intrepids burden to prove that Vader has the ability to defend against Force Lightning as powerful as Malgus'. It is not my responsibility to prove that he cannot do so, which would be proving a negative. My burden of proof extends only as far as proving the strength of Malgus' lightning (which I've done in other threads but if either of you want a refresher I will give you it). If you cannot provide evidence or an arguement about why he can block it then he cannot by default.

The_Tempest Senior Member

Originally posted by Nephthys
Intrepid claimed Malgus has nothing on Vader. I pointed out that quote, which is extremely high praise from Sidious and indicates Malgus is hardly as outmatched as Intrepid said. And it's not as if Sidious isn't intimately aware of Anakin's battlefield feats in order to compare them

I also am skeptical of the claim that Vader has nothing on Malgus. But what does Sidious's remark about Malgus's feats have anything to do with approximating one to the other? All it means is that, according to Sidious, Malgus has done things no other Sith has done. That's impressive if we assume its broad implications. If we take the statement literally, though, all it means is just that: no one has done certain things Malgus has. Doesn't mean someone like Sidious or Vitiate wouldn't slaughter him with impunity, does it? Of course not.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lightsabers can be overpowered. Malgus has overwhelmed lightsaber defenses twice, once in Deceived against Aryn Leneer and once in The Third Lesson against a powerful Jedi Knight capable of collapsing two buildings.
In this case it's yours and Intrepids burden to prove that Vader has the ability to defend against Force Lightning as powerful as Malgus'. It is not my responsibility to prove that he cannot do so, which would be proving a negative. My burden of proof extends only as far as proving the strength of Malgus' lightning (which I've done in other threads but if either of you want a refresher I will give you it). If you cannot provide evidence or an arguement about why he can block it then he cannot by default.

You'll have to refresh my memory on these subjects. And it's important to note that I, as the spectator, don't have to prove anything. This is between you and Intrepid. All I need do is mercilessly challenge and nitpick. I'm not claiming absolutely one way or another. But the straightforward interpretation is that lightsabers are fairly effective in defending against Force lightning when the defender is prepared. Certainly it sometimes fails: you claim Sidious made little headway with Mace but he disarmed Yoda pretty handily. Dooku, one of the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, was unable to overwhelm Obi-Wan's defense in AOTC (though I concede the possibility Dooku wasn't giving it his all).

Vader, another one of history's strongest Sith who has a number of accolades and feats to his name, can be reasonably expected to defend against Force lightning if he has his lightsaber. I'd need to be convinced that Malgus has what it takes to bring him down when he's focused.

Intrepid37 Restricted

Originally posted by Nephthys
Then why mention it?

I felt the need to mention a few of his feats just in case.

Originally posted by Nephthys
👆

Really, beating five of seven fodder-Jedi is alone better than beating one fodder-Jedi in Zallow. That he did it decades before his peak just makes it even better.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It happens in a cutscene.

I mean the way that he can face two different teams.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm pretty sure neither Emperor has ever stepped foot on a battlefield let alone fought on one.

I'm pretty sure that Sidious' claim about Malgus means jack shit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah, Malgus is pretty awesome all round.

Nice red herring which I never denied. As it stands, Vader's better in every category.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Is that a question? Because I'm pretty sure I don't recall him doing that.

It was a question as I can't remember. But either way, I see no reason for Vader would be unable to block the lightning. Kenobi blocked Dooku's, Zannah blocked Bane's, Mace blocked Sidious' etc. Vader, as one of the most powerful Sith in the franchise, should be capable of that. Saying otherwise is ignorant.

pencilcrayon Senior Member

Anakin has processed information in less than a microsecond ( 10^-6 seconds ).
Vader is able to attack with a lightsaber in less than the above time, making his combat speed at a million meters/second. Some Jedi seem to be even faster than that.

Stigma Herald of the Judgement

I have to agree with Tempest’s insights on this:

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ridiculous. Sidious claims Malgus' battlefield showings have never been duplicated.

Indeed, Sidious’s claim might put Malgus on a pedestal, nevertheless it does not preclude Malgus’s inferiority to other Sith combat-wise.

After all, Sidious/Yoda/Luke/Abeloth/The Son/you name it... never duplicated Marek’s feat of exploding the frigate, Plagueis’s feat of atomizing the assassins or even Dooku’s feat of collapsing the cave ceiling.

Moreover, I would like to see the whole passage concerning Sidious’s remark.

The whole context of this statement sounds to me quite similar to what we can encounter in the framework of historical studies. For instance, a historian can claim that “Hannibal’s victories were unparalleled”, but as we move forward in time they pale in comparison to Genghis Khan’s or Napoleon's accomplishments on the battlefield.

NewGuy01 perpetual

Actually, Tempest and Stigma, that theory is blatantly incorrect.

"Malgus submitted utterly to the dark side, and doing so made him an exemplary warrior. His battlefield feats have never been duplicated."

-The Book of Anger, Chapter 2 of "Absolute Power" by Darth Sidious

Never means "never". It doesn't mean "never during his time" or anything of the sort. Up until the Dark Times where Palpatine and Vader reigned, Malgus's battlefield feats had not once been duplicated.

Mizukage Yoda Lord of Winterfell

No shit his battlefield feats were never duplicated. That was likely the largest and longest Jedi vs. Sith confrontation in history. The Sith Wars in the Bane era pale in comparison to the TOR Great Galactic War. Malgus was at the head of the Sith charge for two decades.

Compare that to the Clone Wars which lasted only about 3 years, and the Rebellion which could barely even constitute as a war, and no Malgus' battlefield feats would never be duplicated.

But if you put Vader, or Yoda, or Mace into an era of constant warfare you can be damned sure they'd do more than duplicate Malgus' feats. The PT Jedi only got to test themselves against legions of droids, not legions of Sith. Similarly Dooku, Vader, Maul, and Palpatine commanded their legions from afar mostly. It was rare indeed when Vader took to the field, and cutting down Rebel scum is hardly comparable to cutting down seasoned Jedi Knights and Masters.

Too bad the PT Clone Wars wasn't just an all out war between the Sith and the Jedi. Would have been ****ing sweet. **** the Rule of Two.

The_Tempest Senior Member

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Actually, Tempest and Stigma, that theory is blatantly incorrect.
"Malgus submitted utterly to the dark side, and doing so made him an exemplary warrior. His battlefield feats have [B]never been duplicated."
-The Book of Anger, Chapter 2 of "Absolute Power" by Darth Sidious
Never means "never". It doesn't mean "never during his time" or anything of the sort. Up until the Dark Times where Palpatine and Vader reigned, Malgus's battlefield feats had not once been duplicated. [/B]

That has nothing to do with what I said.