Originally posted by zopzopAll the Watcher says is: "Beyonder, we ask of you an audience. Please hear us."
LOL, dude the Watcher is pleading with the Beyonder to hear them.It's almost word for word accurate to the original SW II scene.
If you believe those simplistic lines imply that post-retcon Beyonder was still intended to be>LT, then you're reading into the scene WAAAY more than you should be.
[edit]
Aside from that, GotG confirmed that LT is very much superior to post-retcon Beyonder, so yeah...
@Galan007:
If you want confirmation that the abstracts were intending to destroy the beyonder, here it is (master order/lord chaos, 2007 handbook) which directly references the Quasar issue:
http://i.imgur.com/yeZXEiY.jpg?1
And the history of MU has an indirect reference that the cosmic beings (abstracts) CHALLENGED the beyonder:
http://i.imgur.com/YaRa4q9.jpg?1
Still, i think you're misunderstanding me a bit, my intention isn't to say that post retcon beyonder > LT and the others, in fact, i already stated my opinion regarding this matter on the other thread Im pretty sure thor annual #14, which posts the entire MU cosmic hierarchy, establishes that post retcon Beyonder is below the asbtracts, we also have the MM statement as well as its bio confirmations, among other things, Im just pointing the screw ups.
Originally posted by CortSether
And a Celestial was killed by an Asgardian-enchanted axe, so:Asgardians > Celestials > Beyonder > MU combined including LT.
💃
Asgardians=Reed Richaards>Celestials>/=Alternate IGs and UNs>Beyonder>Rest of Marvel.
Originally posted by Galan007
Death's 2006 OHOTMU bio specifically references the Beyonder erasing her:
http://i.imgur.com/vHiRL5t.jpg
So as far as Marvel canon is concerned, [half of] a cube-level being evidently has the power to erase Death.However, her bio also neuters/retcons the feat from multiversal to universal, so there's that.
Either that or Death had suffered from the "Worf Effect" considering the number of times she's been owned by less powerful beings in comics before.
Originally posted by operator616Cool, this is all you needed to say.
my intention isn't to say that post retcon beyonder > LT and the others
Originally posted by TheGodKillerI'll go with this. 👆
Either that or Death had suffered from the "Worf Effect" considering the number of times she's been owned by less powerful beings in comics before.
Originally posted by Galan007
Aside from that,
GotG confirmed that LT is very much superior to post-retcon Beyonder, so yeah...
Also my friends, if we're going to revolve Death and Beyonder's connection via bios,
then we must also accept Eternity's bio of the same year. (2006)
In which it references Eternity using some of Beyonder's power via "Beyondersbane,"
to try and destroy him, he failed, and Owen "defeated" Beyonder. (but we know how)
[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16786536_ET_bio_Beyonder.jpg]
This was an on panel depiction, so it outright means Eternity < Beyonder.
^^ edit* ... I could be wrong, but it was 1994, the bios are from 2006 and on.
Beyonder's reference in the LT's bio: (2006)
[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16786666_Beyonder_LT_Bio.jpg]
"When omnipotent Beyonder decided to kill Death, the LT joined to stop him,
although Beyonder succeeded in killing Death" ...
Ok, ok, this imo, tells me, Beyonder was retconned in these bios back to his old self,
and I can't believe I never noticed. lol.
... and these same handbooks do have a reference to what happened in FF annual not to mention that beyonder later got retconned into being a mutant inhuman in 2007, which was confirmed in a 2011 handbook (i already posted a while ago), as well as the 2009 encyclopedia (funny enough, this wasn't mentioned in his personal entry of the encyclopedia but rather the illuminati's page, pg.148)
http://i.imgur.com/P3geQMm.jpg?1
2009 bio > 2006 bio
still, there will always be contradictions, like the scan which i posted from the history of the MU, which is from 2011, so meh.
Originally posted by operator616... and these same handbooks do have a reference to what
happened in FF annual not to mention that beyonder later got
retconned into being a mutant inhuman in 2007, which was
confirmed in a 2011 handbook (i already posted a while ago), as
well as the 2009 encyclopedia (funny enough, this wasn't
mentioned in his personal entry of the encyclopedia but rather
the illuminati's page, pg.148)http://i.imgur.com/P3geQMm.jpg?1
2009 bio > 2006 bio
still, there will always be contradictions, like the scan which i
posted from the history of the MU, which is from 2011, so meh.
Thing is, that yur handbooks (two, is it?) Don't substantiate
anything concerning Beyonder being an Inhuman Mutant.
I remember yur scan posted a while ago, it said something to
the effect of Beyonder 'claims either.' But this new excerpt yu
posted says absolutely nothing imo. "X convinced the Beyonder was blah, blah."
I don't get anything concrete from that.
Yur 2011 excerpt is more thorough though, but it happens to lean towards me. 😛
On the other hand, the 2006 handbooks coupled with the 2007-2009' sets,
speak directly and refer to Beyonder's historical events without guessing room.
tbh, it's a convoluted mess, cause it seems they're addressing
the Beyonder as if he were in his classic levels, or at-least an
all powerful being. The Illuminati comedy was a wtf, and left everyone like huh ...
but that interview I linked you to in that other thread strongly
suggests Beyonder was toying with them. Why? Not disclosed.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I guess this was aimed at me.Thing is, that yur handbooks (two, is it?) Don't substantiate
anything concerning Beyonder being an Inhuman Mutant.
I remember yur scan posted a while ago, it said something to
the effect of Beyonder 'claims either.' But this new excerpt yu
posted says absolutely nothing imo. "X convinced the Beyonder was blah, blah."
I don't get anything concrete from that.
Yur 2011 excerpt is more thorough though, but it happens to lean towards me. 😛On the other hand, the 2006 handbooks coupled with the 2007-2009' sets,
speak directly and refer to Beyonder's historical events without guessing room.tbh, it's a convoluted mess, cause it seems they're addressing
the Beyonder as if he were in his classic levels, or at-least an
all powerful being. The Illuminati comedy was a wtf, and left everyone like huh ...
but that interview I linked you to in that other thread strongly
suggests Beyonder was toying with them. Why? Not disclosed.
Yes it was; I can’t really believe you actually think that marvel has beings (since there are alt. versions of him) "millions of times more powerful than everyone combined" running around.
here's the handbook again, and read it more carefully, in the end it says that what is shown at any given moment is possibly true:
http://i.imgur.com/LQIX5IS.jpg?1
.......meaning beyonder being an inhuman mutant is most likely true. That along with the encyclopedia (which reaffirms the on panel retcon), should settle it.
According to you, the 2006 handbooks re-retcon the beyonder into his original self. So consider this:
It was established that molecule man and the beyonder are less powerful than eternity and the living tribunal in the issue where they merged, those same 2006 handbooks (along with Beyonder’s latest 2009 encyclopedia bio) have a reference to that event, which includes the MM's statement.
Beyonder lost to MM in FFA 27, confirmed by the handbooks and the encyclopedia.
Annihilation: silver surfer #3, Galactus says that Tenebrous and Aegis are a far worse threat than the Beyonder, and again: those same 2006 handbooks and the encyclopedia have a reference to that event as well.
His beyond realm is now a pocket universe (which are limited in spatial size), and confirmed by a 2009 bio.
I could list more but I hope you get the general idea. And im not even bringing up the whole alternate versions thing, which makes it impossible for the beyonder to be at that power-level.
So, you want us to just ……..throw those showings out of the window??? That’s not how it works and you know that.
Post SW Beyonder’s average isn't equal to his old self in terms of power levels (despite the fact that nothing – except for the celestials battle - has been retconned)
Apparently, handbooks and encyclopedias acknowledge the "wtf comedy". Still, i have yet to see that interview, though.
![[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16786536_ET_bio_Beyonder.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16786536/ET_bio_Beyonder.jpg.html){kind=link}
![[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16786666_Beyonder_LT_Bio.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16786666/Beyonder_LT_Bio.jpg.html){kind=link}
