Mistress Death Vs Nekron

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
That would mean he would have left the battle to go acquire the Infinity Gems.

He got the Infinity Gems like 3 months before the fight. Everything in the book happened before the battle, except when he healed the Earth.
The only indication that the Gems were gone was after the battle was over. Which means he burnt the Infinity Gems up, and almost all of Beyonder's power in that fight.

Which means the Celestials were written like absolute forces in that book.

...Probably the best What If ever, btw.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's exactly how Celestials should always be written, imo.

...Probably the best What If ever, btw.

A lot of Sonic, and Emma Frost though...

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Nekron would turn Mistress Death into a cookie baking house wench. She usually needs others to do her bidding while Nekron tends to use a more hands on approach.

Until Hal was ordering Nekron around 😄

Originally posted by Igniz
Until Hal was ordering Nekron around 😄

Hal's will is a confirmed plot device

Originally posted by Mr Master

Actually you brought up "alternate Beyonders" being = to Pre-Retcon levels.
I was simply noting how powerful even a silly Alternate was.

Nice deflection though.

Still, way to miss the point likewise.
I never said there was a pre-retcon Beyonder running around.
In fact,
[b]I clearly just said Beyonder doesn't have to be at classic levels to be all powerful.

LOL indeed, indeed!

I never dismissed anything concerning LT > Beyonder.

In fact, I replied to Galan and said " I THINK that's an Alternate"

Pay attention son.

And yur not showing me anything that tells me Beyonder is an Inhuman/Mutant.

... sure, sure? More like ... What the heck is this supposed to prove?

On Panel,
Doom/FF, travelled through the "Cross Roads of Infinity"
to reach Beyonder's Universe:

You do know what the "Cross Roads" are?
It's a major infinite Nexus that leads to the infinite Universes, Not pockets.

Let me know if you need scans.

Anyway, Doom and Co. pass by many Universes to reach
Beyonder's which is at the edge. Here are a few UniverseS depicted:

"Before us lies our final Universe" (Not pocket)

---------------------------------

It's no different in appearance to 616,
heck they thought they entered 616:

"Our own Universe" (Not pocket)

"Anybody else feel the Universe blink?" (Not pocket)

"You feel the Universe shift, because the Universe is all me" (Not pocket)

---------------------------------

LOL, even Owen Reece lets it be known that he himself is Infinite!

Also, when Beyonder himself claims he is Infinite, no one says otherwise:

Don't play yurself, I gave you the link before.

That aside, still looking for any on panel existence of any kind that
substantiates Beyonder being an Inhuman/Mutant.

Actually Paul Tobin wrote the Spiderman-Secret Wars mini. Nice try.

Jim Shootter had absolutely nothing to do with this re-telling.

So, Shooter's been put aside, and this so-called "portrayal" is laughable.
That's No portrayal, that's Thor (Roy Thomas) talking shit
about what HE thinks concerning these beings.

"Portrayal?" ... Beyonder didn't even appear in that issue or had anything to do with it. [/B]

what did i deflect, exactly?

you clearly said that Beyonder was retconned to his old-self in the 2006 handbooks, and you never noticed........so yeah. And that's what i responded to.

you're really jumping around with your stances. You say that Beyonder was returned to his classic levels through the handbooks (which means you're saying that beyonder is still > LT), yet now you're apparently not denying that LT > Beyonder. So you'll have to take your pick.

so much.....irrelevant scans. First off, a pocket universe is referred to as simply "universe".

Heroes reborn the return #1/ fantastic four #600. two of franklin's pocket universes are simply referred to as "universe" (not pockets):

http://i.imgur.com/45zFgbJ.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/5IfuRD1.jpg?1

i have many other examples.

concerning your FF 319 irrelevant scans. Beyonder was delusional the whole issue, Owen tells him that the beyonder THINKS he's above LT and eternity when in reality, he's not:

http://i.imgur.com/sZNUrWO.jpg?1

And that's how he acts, as if he's above everyone,
And that's pretty much clear throughout the issue, simplest example was when he claimed that no one can stop him, after which Kubik defeated him rather easily.

The kubik scan was meant to show that his universe is not infinite, like his beyond realm was originally shown to be -- infinitely bigger than the entire mainstream multiverse.

In regards to the crossroads, yes i know what it is, still don't see why it couldn't lead to pocket/smaller universes.

you gave me four different interviews and told me it's in one of them, im not going to search through them; that's your job, i already showed you my evidence, you still haven't. And do you seriously want me to post the new avengers Illuminati vol 2 issue 3 scans? I would gladly post those scans if you acknowledge on panel evidence (which you should) but apparently, your argument is that there isn't a bio or handbooks or anything that references the inhuman mutant on panel retcon, and that was the point of posting the encyclopedia and the handbook. Maybe the encyclopedia and the handbook are a bit ambiguous, but the fact that it does reference the on panel retcon (which was quite clear), should settle it.

It was a mistake, which i fully acknowledge, i wasn't trying anything, it wasn't meant to deceive.
Ok, if you won't take the thor annual example (even though you do choose to believe certain character claims when it suits you, like in Beyonder's case) then how about when Maker was over-powered by Thanos?

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans9/NAIll3_BeyonderOrigin.jpg

This one?

Originally posted by Cogito
Hal's will is a confirmed plot device

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans9/NAIll3_BeyonderOrigin.jpg

This one?

yeah, that's Beyonder's latest retcon.

I'll say Nekron for the time being

Originally posted by Galan007
Well yeah. He's basically got the will of God:

Originally posted by operator616

you clearly said that Beyonder was retconned to his old-self in the 2006
handbooks, and you never noticed........so yeah. And that's what i responded to.

That's what a "pre-retcon beyonder running around" would be. (like you said)

Next.

Originally posted by operator616

you're really jumping around with your stances. You say that Beyonder was
returned to his classic levels through the handbooks (which means you're saying
that beyonder is still > LT), yet now you're apparently not denying that LT >
Beyonder. So you'll have to take your pick.

If you can't comprehend the context of my post, just ... ask, but
please refrain from yur sad attempt at trying to make me look
confused, I mean, it's unbecoming.

Originally posted by operator616

so much.....irrelevant scans.

First off, a pocket universe is referred to as simply "universe".

Heroes reborn the return #1/ fantastic four #600.
two of franklin's pocket universes are simply referred to as "universe" (not pockets):

http://i.imgur.com/45zFgbJ.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/5IfuRD1.jpg?1

i have many other examples.

And I have several disconnected/unrelated example too.

But none of us have a single example of Beyonder's universe
being labeled a "pocket" on panel.

Next.

Well,
I'll go first and post TWO instances where Franklin's "Heroes Reborn" Reality is labeled a Pocket Universe! (on panel)

..ouch, that's gotta hurt after you came at me with this air of scumbag entitlement
calling my posts "irrelevant" yet it is you who ends up posting "irrelevant" scans. 😬

Don't come at me again son until you do your home work properly.

See, my scans there clear up the missing detail in your scans. (supported in the handbooks too btw)

Now try and clear up my "irrelevancy" with on panel proof.

Originally posted by operator616

concerning your FF 319 irrelevant scans. Beyonder was delusional the whole
issue, Owen tells him that the beyonder THINKS he's above LT and eternity when
in reality, he's not:
http://i.imgur.com/sZNUrWO.jpg?1
And that's how he acts, as if he's above everyone,
And that's pretty much clear throughout the issue, simplest example was when he
claimed that no one can stop him, after which Kubik defeated him rather easily.

Must've missed that one son.

Also, Beyonder's Universe was reached via the "Cross-Roads of Infinity,"
which is an infinite Nexus that leads to the infinite UniverseS.
A Dimensional portal/Vortex/or Space-Rift is all that's needed to venture into Pockets.

Originally posted by operator616

The kubik scan was meant to show that his universe is not infinite, like his
beyond realm was originally shown to be -- infinitely bigger than the entire
mainstream multiverse.

Kubik's "infinity" was simply greater than Beyonder's at that point, cause B wasn't "whole."

So, Kubik warped an Infinite Universe. Nice.

Originally posted by operator616

In regards to the crossroads, yes i know what it is, still don't see why it couldn't
lead to pocket/smaller universes.

Originally posted by operator616

you gave me four different interviews and told me it's in one of them, im not going
to search through them; that's your job, i already showed you my evidence, you still
haven't. And do you seriously want me to post the new avengers Illuminati vol 2
issue 3 scans? I would gladly post those scans if you acknowledge on panel
evidence (which you should) but apparently, your argument is that there isn't a bio
or handbooks or anything that references the inhuman mutant on panel retcon, and
that was the point of posting the encyclopedia and the handbook. Maybe the
encyclopedia and the handbook are a bit ambiguous, but the fact that it does
reference the on panel retcon (which was quite clear), should settle it.

Cool, just wanted to know.

So, the "What If" ... "Hickman's run," and the "Spidey Mini," All published YearS After Illuminati,
all portrayed the Beyonder, (and/or alternates) as the same ol' Beyonder
that came from Beyond, blah, blah, blah. (nothing to do with inhumans/mutants)

Cool, just so they know.

Originally posted by operator616

Ok, if you won't take the thor annual example (even though you do choose to
believe certain character claims when it suits you, like in Beyonder's case)

That Thor Annual, is a special writer's splash-page, insignificant to the book it's contained in.
I mean, you do realize that wasn't part of the story yes? Beyonder was NOT active in that book,
neither were any of the others presented. It's Not a showing, it's not even a viable
statement since it wasn't made withIN an actual story.
That wasn't even a back-story (which I would've accepted) like many comics have always had.

On the other hand, of course I'll accept On Panel IN-Story statements over that Thor nonsense.
That aside, Thor's words don't relate to reality, that goes for other comments made there as well.

Originally posted by operator616

then how about when Maker was over-powered by Thanos?

... meh, it was still able to K.O. Thanos one-shot style in their first encounter:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16799445_Maker1.jpg]
[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16799448_Maker2.jpg]
[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16799451_Maker3.jpg]
[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16799453_Maker4.jpg]

---------------------------------------------------

But, like it's known, the Maker made itself severely vulnerable:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16799454_Maker5.jpg]

Thanos himself confirmed this:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16799455_Maker6.jpg]

*** Make no mistake though, Thanos feared the real Beyonder ever coming out of the Maker.
Thanos decided to keep the Maker's body alive to act as a prison,
the only prison able to hold the true Beyonder (his essence/omnipotence) withIN the Maker:

Thanos states his recollection of the Beyonder:

"Unlimited power ill used. Unlimited Power!"

That's Thanos talking, same guy who became "God" 3 times prior. (CCU/IG/HOTI)

Originally posted by Mr Master
Exactly. Yea? So? ... I never said Beyonder Now, was pre-retcon Beyonder on panel.

That's what a "pre-retcon beyonder running around" would be. (like you said)

Next.

My stance is absolute, and everyone knows what it is concerning Beyonder.

If you can't comprehend the context of my post, just ... ask, but
please refrain from yur sad attempt at trying to make me look
confused, I mean, it's unbecoming.

First off, My "irrelevant" scans all pertain (are literally from) the Beyonder book/story.

And I have several disconnected/unrelated example too.

But none of us have a single example of Beyonder's universe
being labeled a "pocket" on panel.

Next.

Well,
I'll go first and post TWO instances where Franklin's "Heroes Reborn" Reality [b]is labeled a Pocket Universe! (on panel)

..ouch, that's gotta hurt after you came at me with this air of scumbag entitlement
calling my posts "irrelevant" yet it is you who ends up posting "irrelevant" scans. 😬

Don't come at me again son until you do your home work properly.

See, my scans there clear up the missing detail in your scans. (supported in the handbooks too btw)

Now try and clear up my "irrelevancy" with on panel proof.

I don't care how delusional you say he was.
He embodied that entire Universe, and his comment concerning his "infinity" was
After Kubik stomped him.
And again, even Owen Reece lets it be known that he himself is Infinite!

Must've missed that one son.

Also, Beyonder's Universe was reached via the "Cross-Roads of Infinity,"
which is an infinite Nexus that leads to the infinite UniverseS.
A Dimensional portal/Vortex/or Space-Rift is all that's needed to venture into Pockets.

Meaningless then. Since we all know Beyonder's Infinite Universe was Not at it's
original scale during the retcon issue. We know it was just an infinite universe,
no different than any other infinite universe of the Multiverse.

Kubik's "infinity" was simply greater than Beyonder's at that point, cause B wasn't "whole."

So, Kubik warped an Infinite Universe. Nice.

Addressed. [/B]

You can stop being hostile now, just because i disagree with you and called your scans for what they truly are, is no reason to get upset and start getting hostile.

Let me ask you then: Do you believe that Beyonder, currently, is at pre reton power-levels?

yeah, everyone knows, yet until a day ago you never noticed that Beyonder was supposedly retconned back into his old-self.

Im not attempting to make you look confused. but anyway, we'll see what happens after you answer my question whether you consider current beyonder at pre retcon power levels or not.

I know from where your scans are (fantastic four #319), but let's face it, they don't prove anything.

That doesn't hurt at all, actually, because either you didn't comprehend my post or you're just.....posting more irrelevant scans.......you do realize that im not denying that what Franklin created was a pocket, right? what i was saying, is that despite being a pocket universe, it was referred to simply as "universe". Which means that even though Beyonder's pocket universe is called "universe" on panel, it doesn't take away from the fact that it is still a pocket universe.

Beyonder declaring that he's infinite was exactly 1 page before Owen explained to him that he's delusional, here are the 2 consecutive scans.

http://i.imgur.com/fr6m2ZS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FsX1GFQ.jpg

........This pretty much tells us that Beyonder's own words should not be taken seriously at all. And that's what The '89 updated handbook in Beyonders' entry tells us: that Beyonder is not the omnipotent being he BELIEVED HIMSELF TO BE:

http://i.imgur.com/LxWL7Lc.jpg?1

So he believed himself to be omnipotent (like Owen said, he thought he was > LT and Eternity), in other words, he was delusional until Owen explained to him his true origins. All your scans take place before that moment.

The Owen statement is a hyperbole, simply. Because:

I already provided evidence that it was a pocket reality, and there's more

2011 History of the marvel universe: Beyonder's powers returned to his POCKET REALM (see the last part, sometimes i have problems editing certain scans):

http://i.imgur.com/2D80HCc.jpg

^^ d'you see how - despite being initially called "pocket realm" - it was later referred to as "universe"?

Maker's bio - 2005: a REALM which he acted as god.

http://i.imgur.com/Jp8EqUr.jpg?1

that, and along with the master edition handbook, which i already posted says that it's a pocket universe

http://i.imgur.com/IXTcUPn.jpg?1

Keep ignoring the evidence, though 👆

Yes, Kubik's power was "infinite", and since he was >>> Beyonder at that point, this proves that Beyonder's universe (which he embodied) was NOT infinite. If Kubik had "trans-infinite" power, then id understand. However, that was not the case.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So nothing of any kind On Panel After Illuminati,
that even suggest (even indirectly) Beyonder is an Inhuman Mutant.

Cool, just wanted to know.

So, the "What If" ... "Hickman's run," and the "Spidey Mini," All published YearS After Illuminati,
all portrayed the Beyonder, (and/or alternates) as the same ol' Beyonder
that came from Beyond, blah, blah, blah. (nothing to do with inhumans/mutants)

Cool, just so they know.

The Maker was insane, it took mortal form, and it's abilities were diminished.

... meh, it was still able to K.O. Thanos one-shot style in their first encounter:

---------------------------------------------------

But, like it's known, the Maker made itself severely vulnerable:

Thanos himself confirmed this:

*** Make no mistake though, Thanos feared the real Beyonder ever coming out of the Maker.
Thanos decided to keep the Maker's body alive to act as a prison,
the only prison able to hold the true Beyonder (his essence/omnipotence) withIN the Maker:

Thanos states his recollection of the Beyonder:

"Unlimited power ill used. [b]Unlimited Power!"

That's Thanos talking, same guy who became "God" 3 times prior. (CCU/IG/HOTI) [/B]

You just said it yourself: the ON PANEL retcon.

It's not my problem that you are disregarding on panel evidence.

Bringing up alternate versions is pointless, Hickman's 4 alternate versions do not tell us the specific origins of those beyonders. The what if....is a secret wars what if so it can be expected of them to follow what it was originally portrayed to be. Which is why doom says (exactly like in the very 1st page of Secret Wars 1 #11) that he is the mightiest being in this or any other universe (which should include 616) and thus what doom is saying, is that this Alt. Beyonder's power is greater than the 616 version. Same thing goes to the spiderman mini, everything Secret Wars-related will still be portrayed as it originally was, because it was never retconned. However, what im arguing here, is that current Beyonder's "average" isn't at pre reton power levels.

Your only hope to convince us, is if you link me to that interview, which you still haven't. Something tells me if it did exist, you would have posted the link by now.

And at that instance, Maker took Thanos by surprise, he wasn't prepared to defend himself. The very next issue, When they confront each other face to face, Thanos clearly over-powers her. And without much trouble, too:

http://i.imgur.com/6t41178.jpg

Maker was "vulnerable" in the sense that she was mortal, meaning she was able to be killed unlike Beyoner in the Kosmos form. Its power was diminished but not by much

After Maker died, nothing was "unleashed on the universe", though.

i know about that "unlimited power" statement, it's also confirmed in the next issue's recap. My point is that current Beyonder is not pre-retcon-level unlimited power.....which should be obvious.

Also that scan, may as well be an outright lie, considering that it doesn't fit in the continuity well. And Thanos never even met the Beyonder.

Originally posted by operator616

You can stop being hostile now, just because i disagree with you and called
your scans for what they truly are, is no reason to get upset and start getting hostile.

I'll cease from calling it the way I see it, but I will use the 'respectful' terminology you've been using to describe contents of my posts. ("irrelevant"😉

"Irrelevant" like some ironic sanctimonious drivel.

Originally posted by operator616

Let me ask you then: Do you believe that Beyonder, currently, is at pre reton power-levels?

Originally posted by operator616

yeah, everyone knows,
yet until a day ago you never noticed that Beyonder was supposedly retconned
back into his old-self.

If you'd been paying attention you would notice I always said in the Bios:

Like Here: (page 2)

Originally posted by Mr Master

Imo, it's either the Bio overlooks Beyonder's limitations,
because in a couple of bios including Eternity's bio
Beyonder's the poster child as a reference to what can threaten Eternity itself.

Or, Beyonder is a special case, and is being considered an all powerful being in bios,
[/B]

Also like Here: (page 3)

Originally posted by Mr Master
I think that was an alternate Beyonder.

Also my friends, if we're going to revolve Death and Beyonder's connection via [b]bios,
then we must also accept Eternity's bio of the same year. (2006)

Originally posted by Mr Master

2006 handbooks coupled with the 2007-2009' sets,
speak directly and refer to Beyonder's historical events without guessing room.

tbh, it's a convoluted mess, cause it seems they're addressing
the Beyonder as if he were in his classic levels, or at-least an
all powerful being.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Beyonder doesn't have to be at classic levels to be All Powerful :

I was actually trying to highlight the mess here, and why the Death account has to be looked at differently.
(I even suggested how it should be perceived imo)

So ...

Originally posted by operator616

I know from where your scans are (fantastic four #319), but let's face it, they don't prove anything.

Yea, my scans from the actual book/story involving Beyonder don't prove anything,
but your scans involving Franklin's powers years later with absolutely no connection to Beyonder whatsoever, prove something.

ka-dur

Originally posted by operator616

That doesn't hurt at all, actually, because either you didn't comprehend my post or
you're just.....posting more irrelevant scans.......you do realize that im not denying
that what Franklin created was a pocket, right? what i was saying, is that despite
being a pocket universe, it was referred to simply as "universe". Which means that
even though Beyonder's pocket universe is called "universe" on panel, it doesn't
take away from the fact that it is still a pocket universe.

You tried to pull out Franklin's reality creations to somehow explain Beyonder's. (true irrelevancy)

Who cares what Franklin did or didn't do,
or what was called what Frank did concerning Beyonder?
Exactly, no one, cause one has Nothing to do with the other.

lol! ... at ... "taking away from the fact" ... lol

Originally posted by operator616

Beyonder declaring that he's infinite was exactly 1 page before Owen explained to
him that he's delusional, here are the 2 consecutive scans.
http://i.imgur.com/fr6m2ZS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FsX1GFQ.jpg
........This pretty much tells us that Beyonder's own words should not be taken
seriously at all. And that's what The '89 updated handbook in Beyonders' entry tells
us: that Beyonder is not the omnipotent being he BELIEVED HIMSELF TO BE:
http://i.imgur.com/LxWL7Lc.jpg?1
So he believed himself to be omnipotent (like Owen said, he thought he was > LT
and Eternity), in other words, he was delusional until Owen explained to him his
true origins. All your scans take place before that moment.

No where, anywhere in the book, is it stated that Beyonder's universe was a "pocket"
or of "limited" size.

In fact,
it was reached via the "Cross Roads of Infinity" which leads to the infinite universeS.
In fact,
it was stated to look like our universe (616) ...
it was the context of an actual universe the story through out.

... ahh, this is getting ridiculous already. I think I'm gonna light up to and have fun.

Originally posted by operator616

The Owen statement is a hyperbole, simply. Because:

"Handbooks/Encyclopidias" are the way of the future concerning comic book forum debates.

😂 ... below, you funny friend.

Originally posted by operator616

I already provided evidence that it was a pocket reality, and there's more
2011 History of the marvel universe: Beyonder's powers returned to his POCKET
REALM (see the last part, sometimes i have problems editing certain scans):
http://i.imgur.com/2D80HCc.jpg
^^ d'you see how - despite being initially called "pocket realm" - it was later referred to as "universe"?
Maker's bio - 2005: a REALM which he acted as god.
http://i.imgur.com/Jp8EqUr.jpg?1
that, and along with the master edition handbook, which i already posted says that it's a pocket universe
http://i.imgur.com/IXTcUPn.jpg?1

Keep ignoring the evidence, though

Oh, and lol at throwing in the Makers's file and twisting the text into Pocket.

But anyway, seriously: On Panel >>> handbooks/encyclopidias/websites.

When you find that ON PANEL scan that defines Beyonder's INFINITE Universe
as anything other, come back.

Oh, and for the record,
you can be assured I will continue to ignore handbooks over on panel.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Yes, Kubik's power was "infinite", and since he was >>> Beyonder at that point, this
proves that Beyonder's universe (which he embodied) was NOT infinite. If Kubik
had "trans-infinite" power, then id understand. However, that was not the case.

Originally posted by operator616

You just said it yourself: the ON PANEL retcon.
It's not my problem that you are disregarding on panel evidence.
Bringing up alternate versions is pointless, Hickman's 4 alternate versions do not
tell us the specific origins of those beyonders. The what if....is a secret wars what if
so it can be expected of them to follow what it was originally portrayed to be. Which
is why doom says (exactly like in the very 1st page of Secret Wars 1 #11) that he is
the mightiest being in this or any other universe (which should include 616) and
thus what doom is saying, is that this Alt. Beyonder's power is greater than the 616
version. Same thing goes to the spiderman mini, everything Secret Wars-related
will still be portrayed as it originally was, because it was never retconned.
However, what im arguing here, is that current Beyonder's "average" isn't at pre reton power levels.
Your only hope to convince us, is if you link me to that interview, which you still
haven't. Something tells me if it did exist, you would have posted the link by now.
And at that instance, Maker took Thanos by surprise, he wasn't prepared to defend
himself. The very next issue, When they confront each other face to face, Thanos
clearly over-powers her. And without much trouble, too:
http://i.imgur.com/6t41178.jpg
Maker was "vulnerable" in the sense that she was mortal, meaning she was able to
be killed unlike Beyoner in the Kosmos form. Its power was diminished but not by much
After Maker died, nothing was "unleashed on the universe", though.
i know about that "unlimited power" statement, it's also confirmed in the next issue's
recap. My point is that current Beyonder is not pre-retcon-level unlimited
power.....which should be obvious.
Also that scan, may as well be an outright lie, considering that it doesn't fit in the
continuity well. And Thanos never even met the Beyonder.

Yet, still no on panel proof that substantiates the Beyonder being an Inhuman/Mutant
except for what happened in that one book, Illuminati.
Now,
it's not like Beyonder's origin as an "Inhuman/Mutant" was illustrated/depicted as an occurrence in Illuminati,
No,
it's "literally based on a suspicious mindflash that Professor X receives,
and Blackbolt is unable to confirm it."
It makes No sense, and the scene is vague/ambiguous to say the least.
Now, is it possible that Beyonder being an Inhuman/Mutant will be cemented as fact?
Sure it's possible,
Bendis has a lot of pull in Marvel and is allowed wiggle room even more than most.
It may be him via a statement or whatever, or another writer following up Bendis comedy.
Then it becomes fact.
But is this a fact Now based on the info thus far?

That's a definite No!

---------------------------------------------------------------

We all know Thanos k.o'd the Maker though that was not the point of the post.
(It was pointless for me too to post that)
Although you brought that up anyway, asking, what happened there when Thanos beat the Maker:
I explained what we've all known for Years: Thanos beat a vulnerable/weakened Maker:

[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16805195_Maker.jpg]

End of story. No need to try and figure out for me the Maker's power level friend.
The Maker's power level obviously fell beneath Thanos' cause he stomped her, simple.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Also,
you can continue without me concerning Beyonder being "pre-retcon levels" or not,
cause you didn't get that from me. So, basically that's "irrelevant" to me,

I never made a clear/final claim like that. (especially not involving anything on panel)

But still, Thanos's recollection of Beyonder is right on point:

"In that moment I gained the powers ...

I was Everywhere ... and Everything ... and Everyone ...

In that moment, which is this moment. I remade all of creation."

----------------------------------------

"The power I now possess reaches into the Past, the Future, All Time and Space"

On Panel > Bios

btw. Off-panel accounts happen all the time, you can't dismiss Thanos' statements.

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This depiction may be another "irrelevant" illustrated On Panel hyperbole and lie to you,
even though it's actually happening coupled with statements,
since, handbooks are the new thing. But until it's written off somehow, it's our latest depiction,
substantiating something new of the old?
(sure they'll let us know at some point on panel wut the actual facts are)

But anyway, guess I'm one of those who likes a kettle more than a maker. (as in coffee)
(meaning I'm old-school and still believe on panel > bios)
And I use bios, but they have to adhere to on panel truth.

Don't get me wrong, if not Bendis, if another book rides Bendis' idea, I'll accept it.
Although the continuity horror this causes makes it impossible to understand how its allowed.
It's not only a retcon of the Beyonder's origin, it's a retcon of the entire Secret Wars event.
The Illuminati story tells us Beyonder's SW experience all took place on that asteroid,
and everyone involved was a fake copy of the original, and other stupidities.

It doesn't make sense on so many levels.

There's also the Beyonder bowing, and calling Black Bolt his king....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

There's also the Beyonder bowing, and calling Black Bolt his king....

Which is probably why Black Bolt doesn't remember this former Inhuman at all:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805516_Beyonder_Inhuman2.jpg]

Even though I just discovered 3 panels that seemingly shows Beyonder
at some point entering the mysts while the Inhuman's watched,
and he looked the same it seems.
He's also smiling devilishly so not sure if its a mental conjuring. (fake memory)

Also, Beyonder was "ordered" by his "king" to leave the universe,
and instead,
Beyonder disobeyed,
came back and went right back to upsetting the natural order of the universe:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805518_Beyonder_Inhuman3.jpg]

Also, Inhuman/Mutant or Cube Being, Bendis had Namor saying:

"Hate dealing with these all-powerful, all-doing, all-seeing things."

And Reed seems to oblige at the thought:

"As do I."

So, Beyonder, regardless, is supposed to be crazy powerful:

======================================

I had already known how bad this retcon destabilizes continuity,
but I found this page which really breaks it down thoroughly.

(there's more perfect reasoning in the page, I summarized some of it)

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/new_avengers_illuminati_3.shtml

"My take on this, in order to make it as harmless as possible, is to assume
that it takes place during Secret Wars II, after a time when the Beyonder has
removed everyone's memories that he existed (so that Mr. Fantastic and Xavier
can react to seeing him for the first time since Secret Wars I even though by
the time depicted in this issue they had both already encountered him). And all
the stuff with the Beyonder as a mutant Inhuman is just the Beyonder's way of
experimenting with the Illuminati. The scene on the asteroid is just the
Beyonder replaying some scenes that were of particular interest or were
difficult for him to grok or whatever. And just to clean things up, we'll assume
that the Beyonder resets the Illuminati's memories back to whatever they were
prior to this issue. This interpretation pretty much makes this issue pointless,
but i don't really know what else to do with it.

For what it's worth, my Quality Historical Significance ratings are even more
random than usual. As i mentioned, i actually like Cheung's art and the
character interactions in this issue, but that can't possibly make up for such a
weird and poorly thought out attempt at a retcon. And based on my
interpretation of events, any Historical Significance for this issue is essentially
negated.

By design, we don't have to take any of the Beyonder's new origin at face
value; it's based entirely upon a suspicious mindflash that Professor X
receives, and Blackbolt is unable to confirm it."

👆

Originally posted by Mr Master
By design, we don't have to take any of the Beyonder's new origin at face
value; [b]it's based entirely upon a suspicious mindflash that Professor X
receives, and Blackbolt is unable to confirm it[/i]."

👆 [/B]

I like this comment from that page Mr. M :
"This series just looks like what's wrong with modern comics. Some modern writer decides that he didnt like some series that most of us had forgotten about. rather than just not refer to it, he goes out and tries to "fix" it by retconning it out of existence. of course, shoddy research results in the story creating more problems than if they had never bothered to begin with."

Now regarding the whole Beyonder retcons. Bendis' story makes no sense because things and events from SW II were referenced by later writers and they had lasting impact on 'real' characters, Kurse was just one example.

Likewise, Beyonder annihilated a multiversal abstract and the greatest powers in Creation were unable to stop him or undo the damage he did. This was shown on panel, confirmed in Handbooks, and "re-shown" on panel by a different writer at a later date. Post Retcon Beyonder and MM's fight was transmultiversal and Kubik straight up stated thatif MM killed the Beyonder it was cause comsological upheaval.

Other things that weren't retconed from SWII, Owen gathering all the free energy in the MULTIVERSE to reinforce his dome and Beyonder EFFORTLESSLY shattering it. Mephisto's plan to kill the Beyonder that involved all the great powers of the multiverse combining their strength through Beyondersbane manned by Eternity.

On panel, the Beyonder's feats sh|t all over even abstracts he's SUPPOSEDLY inferior to.

I declare zopzop as the definitive loser of this debate. Simply because of how much he sucks, and more so because of how much I hate him.

On a sidenote though, post-retcon Beyonder's universe was definitely a pocket realm.