Emperor Vitiate vs Emperor Palpatine

Started by Nephthys11 pages

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, but rituals are not performed during combat situations.

Offensive Sith Sorcery based actions can look like rituals but they are not. They are acts of manipulating the Force much like the same way as is the case with conventional powers.

Apparently they are now. Thanaton uses one in combat.

I think Thanaton knows a bit more about sorcery than you do, and since he says its a ritual, I intend to believe him.

Also didn't you once argue that Revan could use the Thought Bomb ritual in combat? 😉

Maybe only some rituals can be used in combat, the type that doesn't require a lot of prep.

Thats my impression. I wouldn't say most of them can, but Thanaton certainly managed it somehow. I'm not exactly certain how his attack was a ritual, there didn't seem to be any ritualistic element to it, but if he says it was....

Originally posted by Nephthys
Apparently they are now. Thanaton uses one in combat.

I think Thanaton knows a bit more about sorcery than you do, and since he says its a ritual, I intend to believe him.


Thanaton may have been performing a ritual prior to his confrontation with Nox but went on the offensive with his Sith Sorcery based talent during the confrontation. Or Thanaton could be bluffing?

Sith sorcery based matters are not so black & white due to their unconventional nature. They are still acts of manipulating the Force much in the same way as is the case with conventional powers.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also didn't you once argue that Revan could use the Thought Bomb ritual in combat? 😉

This is canon revelation.

Thought Bomb as a Force power (offensive Sith application) is different from Thought Bomb as a ritualistic power: Thought Bomb as a Force power cannot be used to unleash mass devastation but it is still among the most lethal offensive Sith applications.

Temp, I recall it being a point of contention on the RoK thread for the novel. I'll doublecheck.

I'm well aware of the raw Sorcerer capabilities of Vitiate, not to mention his incredibly hacked power levels - but here are some of Sidious' exploits:

Killing thousands of Republic troops with a standard Sith Lightning (EaW) that lit up the surface a planet.

Vaporizing traitors (Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison part 5) with standard Sith lightning.

Bending a lightsaber blade with standard Sith lightning (RoTs).

Using Force illusion to hide an Imperial Star Destroyer from the entire population of Coruscation (Shadows of the Empire, IIRC?).

Subjugating hundreds of armed Bothan traitors with mind control (EaW) while killing a few hundred more with his lightsaber and Force lightning.

Insta-killing three Jedi Masters (including Kit Fisto, who was demonstrated as being capable of defeating General Grevious in combat [TCW]), all of which were some of the best swordsman of the Jedi council (ROTS).

Killing three Jedi instantly and causing an awed Jedi to kill the fourth to save himself (Dark Times, A Spark Remains, Part 3).

Creating a Force storm that darkened Coruscant, momentarily disrupting Yoda's ability to use the Force in battle, vaporizing a Sith-spawn that he created with standard Sith lightning (Visionaries).

Overpowering the venerable Master Yoda.

After proving that he could have killed Maul and Opress (two Sith who previously slaughtered scores of Jedi in a novel I can't recall; before conquering the Mandalorians, Maul himself killing the Mandalore and taking the Darksaber [TCW]; not to mention Maul is proven as slightly above TCW Obi-wan and his former master Qui Gon Jinn [TCW][TPM]) with TK alone. Then Sidious toys with them for a while in a lightsaber duel, wielding two lightsabers no less - before killing Opress while laughing and then tooling Maul and torturing him with standard Sith lightning.

Creating a blast-wave that nearly turned a helpless Plagueis - whilst making everything in the room fly around along with the palpable currents of dark side energy - into a charred husk (DP novel).

Slaughtering hundreds of various military grade battle droids along side Plagueis early in his training - before growing tenfold in power (DP Novel).

Performing the ritual that tipped the balance of the Force galaxy wide in the dark side's favor, effectively scaring the midi-chlorians into immaculately conceiving the Force vergence that would be known as Anakin (DP novel).

Has more statements as being the most powerful Sith in history than any Sith before or after him (EU canon).

Subjugating and Force draining Byss, summoning Force storms that consumed the entire Rebel Fleet at once, increasing the power of his subjects, shrugging off several tons of steel that Leia threw on him before effortlessly disintegrating her lightsaber with a gesture, tearing apart a Jedi's environment suit that could allow him to survive in space without food or water for weeks with a lightning strike (DE, DE II, Empire's End, and the Sourcebooks) while in a weakened state.

The burst of his standard Sith lightning instantly kills Galen Marek, a Grey Jedi who could move a star destroyer (TFU).

Is the product the Rule of Two, inheriting the sum of thousands of years of progressively more capable Sith; starting with Bane - one of the most powerful Sith of all time.

As of RoTs he's already half of NJO Luke [Empire of Dreams documentary by Lucas, and another statement by Lucas on Luke's equal potential to Anakin that I could dig up]

The list goes on. I think you get the point.

Got any more info about that first feet?

Feet?

I'm pretty sure its just gameplay.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm pretty sure its just gameplay.
I am pretty sure it was a victory-cinematic:

YouTube video

As was the mass-mind control and speed blitz of the Bothans:

I mean, if you can use TOR feats, only seen in-game...

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Feet?

Damn homophones.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Damn homophones.
Try not to sub-vocalize the words you read and write.

You will be able to read up to 2,000 words per minute with 60 or more percent comprehension if you turn into a savant - and homophones won't cause you to miss-type two similar sounding words.

Sub-vocalization is good for learning pronunciation and expanding the vocabulary more quickly, so you may need to develop an off-on switch for sub-vocalization.

The speed and fluidity of this off-on switch will make the application of your mastery of the English language all the more efficient.

I will be a super-polymath one day.

Super-polymath? 😮

Only Da Vinci can claim such!

There's some European dude working for the EU who apparently is fluent in 32 langauges.

He does not have a KMC account.

Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
Super-polymath? 😮

Only Da Vinci can claim such!

Da Vinci was Italian, like myself. The other big polymath of literature, Wolfgang Von Geothe, said Sicily was the heart of that renaissance aspect of Italy - my great grand parents immigrated here from Sicily.

He was only a Polymath. A super-polymath is miles ahead, a super genius, in everything that he's an expert in. More so than anyone else on the planet at all that compromises his or her far broader (poly) expertise (math).

You're like a Mentat super-logician with ultra memory and a Bene Gesserit super-martial artist with super mind-body control and coordination.

So in what fanfic will you become one?

Originally posted by Oneness
I'm well aware of the raw Sorcerer capabilities of Vitiate, not to mention his incredibly hacked power levels - but here are some of Sidious' exploits:

Killing thousands of Republic troops with a standard Sith Lightning (EaW) that lit up the surface a planet.

Vaporizing traitors (Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison part 5) with standard Sith lightning.

Bending a lightsaber blade with standard Sith lightning (RoTs).

Using Force illusion to hide an Imperial Star Destroyer from the entire population of Coruscation (Shadows of the Empire, IIRC?).

Subjugating hundreds of armed Bothan traitors with mind control (EaW) while killing a few hundred more with his lightsaber and Force lightning.

Insta-killing three Jedi Masters (including Kit Fisto, who was demonstrated as being capable of defeating General Grevious in combat [TCW]), all of which were some of the best swordsman of the Jedi council (ROTS).

Killing three Jedi instantly and causing an awed Jedi to kill the fourth to save himself (Dark Times, A Spark Remains, Part 3).

Creating a Force storm that darkened Coruscant, momentarily disrupting Yoda's ability to use the Force in battle, vaporizing a Sith-spawn that he created with standard Sith lightning (Visionaries).

Overpowering the venerable Master Yoda.

After proving that he could have killed Maul and Opress (two Sith who previously slaughtered scores of Jedi in a novel I can't recall; before conquering the Mandalorians, Maul himself killing the Mandalore and taking the Darksaber [TCW]; not to mention Maul is proven as slightly above TCW Obi-wan and his former master Qui Gon Jinn [TCW][TPM]) with TK alone. Then Sidious toys with them for a while in a lightsaber duel, wielding two lightsabers no less - before killing Opress while laughing and then tooling Maul and torturing him with standard Sith lightning.

Creating a blast-wave that nearly turned a helpless Plagueis - whilst making everything in the room fly around along with the palpable currents of dark side energy - into a charred husk (DP novel).

Slaughtering hundreds of various military grade battle droids along side Plagueis early in his training - before growing tenfold in power (DP Novel).

Performing the ritual that tipped the balance of the Force galaxy wide in the dark side's favor, effectively scaring the midi-chlorians into immaculately conceiving the Force vergence that would be known as Anakin (DP novel).

Has more statements as being the most powerful Sith in history than any Sith before or after him (EU canon).

Subjugating and Force draining Byss, summoning Force storms that consumed the entire Rebel Fleet at once, increasing the power of his subjects, shrugging off several tons of steel that Leia threw on him before effortlessly disintegrating her lightsaber with a gesture, tearing apart a Jedi's environment suit that could allow him to survive in space without food or water for weeks with a lightning strike (DE, DE II, Empire's End, and the Sourcebooks) while in a weakened state.

The burst of his standard Sith lightning instantly kills Galen Marek, a Grey Jedi who could move a star destroyer (TFU).

Is the product the Rule of Two, inheriting the sum of thousands of years of progressively more capable Sith; starting with Bane - one of the most powerful Sith of all time.

As of RoTs he's already half of NJO Luke [Empire of Dreams documentary by Lucas, and another statement by Lucas on Luke's equal potential to Anakin that I could dig up]

The list goes on. I think you get the point.

Originally posted by Oneness
I am pretty sure it was a victory-cinematic:

YouTube video

As was the mass-mind control and speed blitz of the Bothans:

I mean, if you can use TOR feats, only seen in-game...

This is all in his respect thread.

Originally posted by Oneness
Da Vinci was Italian, like myself. The other big polymath of literature, Wolfgang Von Geothe, said Sicily was the heart of that renaissance aspect of Italy - my great grand parents immigrated here from Sicily.

He was only a Polymath. A super-polymath is miles ahead, a super genius, in everything that he's an expert in. More so than anyone else on the planet at all that compromises his or her far broader (poly) expertise (math).

You're like a Mentat super-logician with ultra memory and a Bene Gesserit super-martial artist with super mind-body control and coordination.

Well when you become one, let me know. And let me read the fanfic, as Moose suggested.

Just because I'm part of Mensa doesn't mean I go throwing around my IQ, does it? Plus a super-polymath sounds really, really boring.

I realized that it is almost impossible to determine which one would win. I simply believe Vitiate is the superior sith because his character and appearance seems more powerful and wise. His position in his empire is more impressive and he is the dark lord of the sith where there are thousands of them unlike Palpatine who is the dark lord of... idk Vader? In saber combat everyone assumes Palpatine would easily take him but how do we know that? Is there any info about Vitiate's saber skills other than the fact that he rarely needs it?
We hear him speak only a few times but his vision of the galaxy and the force is just something I don't see in Palpatine. Some of his famous quotes in TOR to show what I mean:

"My life spans millennia. Legions have risen to test me. My ascendance is inevitable. A day, a year, a millennium it matters not. I hold the patience of stone and the will of stars. Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same."

"The concerns of this galaxy are meaningless. Once I ascend, all will be tranquil in this galaxy."

"Beyond these stars exist other galaxies, other worlds, other beings. I will experience or ignore them as I wish. I will spend eternity becoming everything: a farmer, an artist, a simple man. When the last living thing in the universe finally dies, I will enjoy peace and wait for the cycle to begin again."

To me he seems to be the ultimate badass of SW. Not Sidious, not the son and not Nihilus. So its all assumption but there is nothing more to proof since there is not much information on Vitiate and their powers are so close to compare.

What Sidious lacks in sorc class skills, he makes up for by being more devious and intelligent. Magic level is not the same as power level.