Emperor Vitiate vs Emperor Palpatine

I absoulutetly agree with you on how close they are. Actually I even have a theory(in my imagination) that they might be connected because they are like each other a lot. Palpatine might be a result of Vitiate's existence in the force.
As for what you said, I think it is impossible to decide a superior sith comparing their force abilities since they are really close though I think Vitiate's lightning and TK are more powerful. That is why I focused on their interactions with others so much. Vitiate has a major superiority in this. Palpatine is more human, more common. Vitiate is like nothing else in SW.
You should be able to see how above he is in general. Palpatine's methods are more feeble and require more from him as a person/politician because his influence in the force isn't powerful enough to dominate everything around him. Vitiate can influence almost everything in the galaxy and was really close to become the galaxy itself. I don't think any other force user has reached such a godly level beyond human concerns.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Or does he? Does Vitiate truly have a superior grasp of the force to the extent that he'd simply overwhelm palpatine? mental domination wouldn't work, and actually contrary to popular belief, dem telepathic assaults do require effort, so he cant muster some more powerful attack while doing so.

Someone like Palpatine may not be possible to break on the spot but Vitiate can undermine Palpatine's combat effectiveness by maintaining enough telepathic pressure on him to eventually overwhelm him with his powers after a hypothetical clash of decent tenure.

Vitiate have undermined whole Strike Teams (of some of the most powerful Jedi) with his telepathic influence. In-fact, he have possibly even destroyed/killed opponents with just his telepathic abilities.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
That said, Vitiate still has (very) powerful lightning and TK, as does Palpatine.

When Vitiate goes all out on any opponent, that opponent ends up dead irrespective how strong.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Vitiate, however, is seemingly more difficult to defeat with telekinesis, and therefore I don't see Palpatine defeating him with it. With lightning, some have argued that Vitiate's is actually more powerful, and he does have those lightning storms. Palpatine has obviously his regular very powerful lightning, and force maelstrom, the latter of which would prove useful if Vitiate summons an FLS or utilizes his duplicates.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Another factor, however, is that Palpatine seemingly never uses the force maelstrom ability, and therefore most likely wouldn't come into play. But then there's that last factor, palpatine's speed and lightsaber ability. Take the battle as you will, but it's closer than you think.

I believe that any incarnation of Palpatine is outmatched in this contest unless DE incarnation is considered. In that case, Sidious have the option to summon Force Storm to even the odds, should he get the opportunity.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
People beneath Vitiate have Force Maelstrom talent so it is logical to assume that Vitiate would have acquired this talent as well. Heck, Vitiate's Dread Masters have abilities that I have never seen before so it is possible that Vitiate have mysterious abilities that we have never seen before. His purging of his first Dark Council does reflects upon this fact.

I agree. We know everything about Sidious but the details of Vitiate's life is still not known and he still hasn't died fully. He only uses enough to stun/destroy his enemies and in 1300 years he must have gained many more tricks and abilities that he isn't using at all. I would even say he is the only one who could challenge the ones and abeloth.

The Emperor wins 😛

Originally posted by Sinious
I agree. We know everything about Sidious but the details of Vitiate's life is still not known and he still hasn't died fully. He only uses enough to stun/destroy his enemies and in 1300 years he must have gained many more tricks and abilities that he isn't using at all. I would even say he is the only one who could challenge the ones and abeloth.

Luke/HoT>>

LeGenD, you are bringing alot of speculation to the table. From what we do in fact know, Vitiate has never utilized and cannot use force maelstrom. However he probably does have knowledge of the ability. Also, he can't prepare another ability while directing a telepathic assault, he's never shown the aptitude to do so. Doing said telepathic assaults require large effort on Vitiate's part for them to be effective. He overwhelmed said strike team after pwning them with an FLS, it wasn't purely an assault.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
LeGenD, you are bringing alot of speculation to the table.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
From what we do in fact know, Vitiate has never utilized and cannot use force maelstrom.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
However he probably does have knowledge of the ability.

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen.

Try to comprehend.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Also, he can't prepare another ability while directing a telepathic assault, he's never shown the aptitude to do so. Doing said telepathic assaults require large effort on Vitiate's part for them to be effective. He overwhelmed said strike team after pwning them with an FLS, it wasn't purely an assault.

Vitiate can simultaneously perform several actions and he was actually doing this; manipulating the environment of Dromund Kaas; siphoning energies from other individuals; controlling his children; and more.

Vitiate is not restricted in the use of the Force in the manner like mortals are. His capacity as a practitioner of the Force vastly increased after he acquired unnatural form.

Here is canonical description of Vitiate's duel with the Jedi Strike Team in question:

The plan to invade the Emperor's fortress succeeds beyond Master Braga's greatest ambitions. However, the Jedi find more than they bargained for when they finally confront the Sith leader in his lair. The Emperor is more than a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (SWTORE, Page 92)

Vitiate's command of telepathic applications is not a black and white phenomenon. He decides how much he wants to exert with his telepathic abilities. He can choose to go all out with his telepathic abilities or simply put pressure on opposition, simultaneously using other powers to suppress the opposition.

Check this thread and enlighten yourself: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t587136.html

Malgus invented Force Maelstrom as I recall. I see no reason why he would share the technique with Vitiate.

But LeGenD you see, even if he might be able to use force maelstrom, he's never used it in combat. Why would he use it now? Kind of like when I said Palpatine's use of it probably wouldn't come into play either, considering his rare use of the ability.

From Revan's own battle with vitiate. Read this:

"The Emperor, unprepared, and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan, was sent flying backward."

Meaning that utilizing said assault while trying to gain a significant advantage requires effort.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
But LeGenD you see, even if he might be able to use force maelstrom, he's never used it in combat. Why would he use it now? Kind of like when I said Palpatine's use of it probably wouldn't come into play either, considering his rare use of the ability.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
From Revan's own battle with vitiate. Read this:

"The Emperor, unprepared, and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan, was sent flying backward."

Meaning that utilizing said assault while trying to gain a significant advantage requires effort.

Imagine trying to duel Vitiate with a severe headache and seeds of doubt being sown by the former as well.

I wouldn't dismiss the mind domination out of hand. Revan's block method required some first hand knowledge of the technique and some woo woo magic bullshit that used both sides of the Force. It wasn't well explained, but it seems unlikely to think that just anyone could resist because of will, something we can't measure at all here.

But Sidious swayed Byss under his mental domination, which obviously means he can resist Vitiate. Because he did that over a few decades through unknown means, it totally proves he can marshall that same level of ability in a fight.

Absolutely, I don't know how I could have been mistaken. The feats are virtually identical as Revan and Malak being dominated instantly.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]How do you know that Vitiate's telepathic influence would not work?

Someone like Palpatine may not be possible to break on the spot but Vitiate can undermine Palpatine's combat effectiveness by maintaining enough telepathic pressure on him to eventually overwhelm him with his powers after a hypothetical clash of decent tenure.

Vitiate have undermined whole Strike Teams (of some of the most powerful Jedi) with his telepathic influence. In-fact, he have possibly even destroyed/killed opponents with just his telepathic abilities.

This is Darth Sidious we're talking about - people of his level do not get mentally dominated by anyone.

Originally posted by The Exiled
This is Darth Sidious we're talking about - people of his level do not get mentally dominated by anyone.

He would not be effected by Vitiate's presence I give you that but that doesn't mean Vitiate's mind domination power wouldn't work on him. It would at least require a lot of effort to defend against it and it would weaken Palpatine which gives Vitiate an advantage. Though Vitiate could never take full control over Palpatine. No one can.

Originally posted by The Exiled
This is Darth Sidious we're talking about - people of his level do not get mentally dominated by anyone.

How can you accurately gauge this though? Revan was a Force beast in his own right, explicitly strong, smart, strong willed, and stubborn. He fell instantly at first, and only survived the second attempt due to again, first hand knowledge and drawing on both sides of the Force (two things Sids has not shown how to do). Vitiate than tortured the guy mentally across space for three hundred years while playing roulette with his pawns at the same time.

Vitiate's level of mental dominance exceeds anything we've seen in the mythos.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
He fell instantly at first

Revan
''We were being led into a trap; the Emperor wanted us to come to him. When we got to his throne room, he was ready and waiting. ” His voice dropped low. “We underestimated his power. When we confronted him, he didn’t even have to fight us. Instead, he broke our wills. He dominated our minds, turning us into puppets to do his bidding. He sent us back to the Republic as the vanguard of his invasion, with instructions to report back when all resistance was crushed.''

SWTORE says 'it only took a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power" to dominate them though.

Mhm. Revan goes out its way as a novel to pretty much establish how much hgher Vitiate was in comparison with the title character.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Mhm. Revan goes out its way as a novel to pretty much establish how much hgher Vitiate was in comparison with the title character.

No it doesn't. SWTOR source material stating he "nearly assassinated the Sith Emperor" does not suggest the massed degree of difference you are suggesting.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No it doesn't. SWTOR source material stating he "nearly assassinated the Sith Emperor" does not suggest the massed degree of difference you are suggesting.

Read the book, bro. Your broad assertion based on a reference to an actual event described in an actual source is troubling.