Sis-Neg Vs Michael Demiurgos

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Michael embodies the power of Yahweh, just as Lucifer embodies the will. Lucifer shaped a multiverse from Michael's energies. Michael's feats are superior to Neg's by and far.

Not to mention that Michael (like his brother Lucifer) dwarf the endless, who are multiversal beings.

Defeating Corrigan spectre (and one shotting a hostless spectre) in his own solo series, is an excellent feat as well.

Originally posted by operator616
Not to mention that Michael (like his brother Lucifer) dwarf the endless, who are multiversal beings.

Defeating Corrigan spectre (and one shotting a hostless spectre) in his own solo series, is an excellent feat as well.

Of course, with someone like Dream(a fraction of whose power has been enough to create entire universes before) that's indeed true considering the manner in which he spoke of Lucifer, but Death is on a whole other level as compared to her siblings.

Originally posted by operator616

what's important is the writer's intention, in which case, Steve certainly didn't
intend to portray Genesis as being someone who's more powerful than an entity
which (sometimes) operates on a megaversal+ scale.

Originally posted by operator616

It's from what if v2 #35, part of timequake, which is canon (it's also referenced in
a couple of other bios as well), from blockbusters of the marvel universe handbook

Originally posted by operator616

I think you're just going beyond what was intended in the story.
Ok, 616 is one era, the others are divergent realities, but there are
still other realities which don't diverge / don't have anything to do with 616 and can't be reached by time travel.

Technically speaking, across many books, 616 was first, (space-time speaking)
then everything came afterwards. So, before 616 = nothing, or the void basically.

Originally posted by operator616

Imo, and now that i think of it, Steve may as well didn't intend to use other eras as
other realities. I mean.....it's not like the term "alternate reality" wasn't used in 1974,
here's 1 example from fantastic four issue around the same year (1974):

But, opr it's not our problem if that were the case. Just like it's not our problem
Dorkin didn't mean to turn Mxy into a multi-mutliversal maker.

I personally got that info from WF's writer himself, just like Comicvine went knocking on Stevie's door,
believe me, I learned my lesson well via certain DC pros here at kmc,
these writers are out the loop concerning the after-affects of their work.
Yet again, not our problem, so we go by On Panel showings and figure things out for ourselves.

There's no point to kmc or other forums if we're gonna run to writers for answers now,
not that Stevie completely discounted our interpretation, in fact he left his answer kinda vague,
and, he did say whatever is in the book, is what it is. And well ... that's what it is. 🙂

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Lucifer shaped a multiverse from Michael's energies. Michael's
feats are superior to Neg's by and far.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

I also find it funny that you go around mocking someone else's
opinion when you claim that you don't have any yourself about this battle.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't see that feat being superior by far at all, imo.

I never intended to poke at your post in any way.
If facial expressions could be recognized in posts you'd know that.
That's a silly way of me saying I was being sincere and meant no harm.

You clearly questioned my "easily" claim in a mocking tone, when my post was just a generic reply to the thread, and not even directed at you.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

I do though, which is why it's my opinion. When dealing with
characters of that level of power from different franchises, subjective
opinion reigns supreme.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

You clearly questioned my "easily" claim in a mocking tone, when my post was just a generic reply to the thread, and not even directed at you.

Originally posted by Mr Master

I never intended to poke at your post in any way.
If facial expressions could be recognized in posts you'd know that.
That's a silly way of me saying I was being sincere and meant no harm.

Now let's be happy. 🙂

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I'd say that they are both peers to Death(who's the strongest of the Endless lot), but I wouldn't go so far as to say that they both dwarf her as well.

Of course, with someone like Dream(a fraction of whose power has been enough to create entire universes before) that's indeed true considering the manner in which he spoke of Lucifer, but Death is on a whole other level as compared to her siblings.

yeah, perhaps i went too far to say that the brothers dwarf all the endless. Considering that Death will eventually take all the other endless (and take herself in the end) id say that puts her above the others, there's also the fact that she travels to other realms of the endless freely, unlike the others. So you're right, but i think that Lucifer and Michael are still superior to her, given that she couldn't really do anything to Lucifer.

yep. And apart from that uber showing, a thousand humans managed to change the whole universe (From its beginning to the end) in Sandman v2 #18:

http://i.imgur.com/fKDqYQ8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2nIVjD6.jpg

pay attention to this panel:

http://i.imgur.com/g08hjDH.jpg?2

And since we're applying that other timelines = other realities in regards to Sise Neg, we might as well apply it to dc (from deadman: dead again #5):

http://i.imgur.com/f4NDXBA.jpg?1

So we can likewise say here that since the dreaming power managed to change the universe from beginning of time till the end, it also changed the realities that diverged from the timestream.

That's what the power of dreaming is.

Yet Lucifer and Michael dwarf such a being. Uber.

There's really no way Sise Neg is winning this. Glad we agree.

=

Originally posted by operator616

http://i.imgur.com/g08hjDH.jpg?2
And since we're applying that other timelines = other realities in
regards to Sise Neg, we might as well apply it to dc (from deadman: dead again #5):
http://i.imgur.com/f4NDXBA.jpg?1

This is a Marvel Comics Fact, I don't know anything about DC,
but if you're guessing that's the case to poke fun at Marvel facts,
you're wasting both our time.

I have 4 completely separate arcs, from 4 different titles,
and all sharing the same basic Concept. On Panel so let me know.

That, and the Fact that every single Future and Past is located in an Alternate World:

(every ... single ... one)

http://www.marvunapp.com/list/appalte.htm

-----------------------------------

If that's the factual proven case for DC as well, then 👆

^ don't need the proof, i am aware of that fact........but there's still the writer's intention. You're going by what was shown in other books, Which is ok, but id still prefer writer's intention.

Full Power Sise-Neg.

Originally posted by operator616
Not to mention that Michael (like his brother Lucifer) dwarf the endless, who are multiversal beings.

Defeating Corrigan spectre (and one shotting a hostless spectre) in his own solo series, is an excellent feat as well.

Didn't he own Spectre?

^ yes he did. Never said otherwise.

He defeated a hostless spectre in spectre v3 #0, and Corrigan Spectre in spectre v3 #10.

Let me know if you need the scans.

Originally posted by operator616

^ don't need the proof, i am aware of that fact........but there's still
the writer's intention. You're going by what was shown in other books,
Which is ok, but id still prefer writer's intention.

While that may be a solid stance,
if that writer comment had not been investigated at CV,
there would be no confusion as to what happened on panel.

You've proven yurself as one of those who knows, so we both know
(writer intention aside) what Sise-Neg did according to Marvel cosmology.

I hope we can agree with that atleast, because I see your point better now.

Yes, if we go by marvel cosmology, then i agree with you, but.....the intention was pretty clear if you ask me. For example (from marvel premiere #13), like when Mordo claimed that he could alter THAT REALITY while the book was in his possession:

http://i.imgur.com/VgSwi8t.jpg?1

so if by time traveling one does indeed end up in an alternate reality, Mordo wouldn't be even altering the 616 reality (the reality he's talking about), but rather another one.

.....same thing applies to Genesis and his time travels.

Of course, as i said before, if we're going to take into account only the marvel cosmology, then im inclined to agree with you.

👆 As for the scan opr, I believe he's talking about altering 616 from the past.
I know it's tricky but you can affect the Present from the Past,
just like you can affect FutureS from the Present.
In most cases concerning affecting the Present
it takes uber time manipulation, great skill in time travel,
or fine prep to visit the Past safely. (remember the 1602 arc)

What has always made heads spin including mine,
is that somehow all "pasts" were once a point in "time" in 616's Past.
Yet, if you abruptly traverse space-time from 616 and enter any universe
representing 616's "past," you end up in an alternate reality representing
whatever point in time you entered. Ain't that a daisy.

Like, these two scans I had near by: (visit the Past = create a universe)

(story centers in an alternate reality but involves just about everything as you know)

------------------------------------

(this is from 616 Thor comics, where the same principle applies)

You enter a "Past" era, and that's an Alternate Universe: (Year 1942)

"We could be lost in another Alternate Dimension"

------------------------------------

I know, and I agree, but it is what it is. ... bah, let's just enjoy it. stoned

Michael wins.

^Nope.

Yes.

Originally posted by Cogito
Right...he was limited, while Michael is unlimited by definition.

Merely clarifying what happened between Sise-neg and Shuma Gorath 🙂