Batman without gadjets vs 50 thugs

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, how many guys do you think can swarm him at once? Have these 50 guys trained together, and knows everyone's moves? They're more likely to get in each other's way, and he'd only be fighting at any one time, perhaps 5/6? Not 50 at once. The guys at the back won't even get a look in.

Yea, exactly. Too many try and attack at once and it just limits them.

Numbers matter, they matter a lot, but at the same time there is a point of maximum threat based on how many can apply force to the same limited area at one time. Numbers beyond the maximum for that purely make it an endurance issue, and if the individual strength is low enough, then even that small number combined isn't going to be sufficient strength.

Originally posted by wolverinos
yes but how many assassins did he fight at once? just because he got the stamina to fight for long periods of time does not mean he can overcome 50 thugs swarming at him all at once.

also as we see in this scan he fought something 5 people and after he took out the first 2 the third was already chocking him, after he took him out the other one hits him making him bleed, thats exactly what i was talking about, he cannot fend off such numbers all at once.
now imagine 50 people from all directions, he cant win.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, how many guys do you think can swarm him at once? Have these 50 guys trained together, and knows everyone's moves? They're more likely to get in each other's way, and he'd only be fighting at any one time, perhaps 5/6? Not 50 at once. The guys at the back won't even get a look in.

basically there is space for 6 people at once to attack someone effectively. however people can jump on top of him and just dog pile him.
i know its hard to apply real life logic to comics because in comics you see him tossing away like 10 people, however 10 people are weighting more than he can lift to begin with.
in comics they are not fighting to their full potential they are fodder.
however if 50 guys really fought someone like batman he would be doomed.
he cant react to people comming at him from all directions he is not that fast and not that strong.

Originally posted by h1a8
I took MA for many years and have experience with groups of people jjumping a single individual. No one ever attacks at the same time or in complete unison (but in broken cadence). Batman is a bullet timer and master at pressure points and super human by real life's standards. He can one shot each thug and win in less than a minute. This is spite really.

i am a martial artist myself and let me tell you something, if multiple attackers from different directions are able to circle you , then you are done.
thinking otherwise = not knowing much about fighting but rather living in a fantasy land.

if 50 people go at him all at once even if there is only space for 6 people at a time they will still surround him and take him down, he cannot react to 6 different angles and directions at the same time, in order to do that you got to have a super human speed.

and as much as i know your average street thug has minimal knowledge of street fighting and can easily apply something such as a choke, jump to his legs and take him down, hit to the tample, hit to the balls from behind, in comics they are not applying anything, however if batman really had to fight 50 people who are going at him with some minimal brain he is done.

Superhuman speed....which Batman has. Especially by normal real world human standards.

Like I said before....how long do you think it would take for him to pressure point them all, use their limp bodies as a shield, or grabbing them by the ankle and whirling them around (as seen in the scans I showed)..

The guy routinely benches 1000lbs. And at the same time, has the agility, speed and skills to apply that strength. That's not human.

Originally posted by wolverinos
i am a martial artist myself and let me tell you something, if multiple attackers from different directions are able to circle you , then you are done.
thinking otherwise = not knowing much about fighting but rather living in a fantasy land.

That's your problem right there. Batman exists in a fantasy land, where he CAN and WILL win against these odds.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superhuman speed....which Batman has. Especially by normal real world human standards.

Like I said before....how long do you think it would take for him to pressure point them all, use their limp bodies as a shield, or grabbing them by the ankle and whirling them around (as seen in the scans I showed)..

The guy routinely benches 1000lbs. And at the same time, has the agility, speed and skills to apply that strength. That's not human.

if i am not mistaken batman does not have super human speed.
batman is faster than the average person no doubt, but that fast to counter 6 people comming from all directions? and probably 2 more jumping on top? he cant, and there have been plenty of fights where thugs with pipes or chains hurt him in the comics before.

do you think they will just stand there and let him do his pressure points? he hits 1 -2 people and 6 more are already hitting him with punches and kicks, he is taking them out while another wave is attacking him.
hell whats stopping them from just jumping on him and dog pile him? just because thugs never act like that in comics does not mean they cant its like its a constant PIS with thugs.
however PIS off and the thugs are actually fighting? they will take him down with such numbers.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's your problem right there. Batman exists in a fantasy land, where he CAN and WILL win against these odds.

even in comics there is still some logic.
thugs in comics hurt batman before when they were actually fighting.
basically by your logic no matter how many thugs you throw at him he will just defeat everybody H2H? by your logic even 1000000 thugs vs batman will lose to him? hell the US should send him to IRAN to take everybody down H2H in that case.

Originally posted by wolverinos
if i am not mistaken batman does not have super human speed.
batman is faster than the average person no doubt, but that fast to counter 6 people comming from all directions? and probably 2 more jumping on top? he cant, and there have been plenty of fights where thugs with pipes or chains hurt him in the comics before.

do you think they will just stand there and let him do his pressure points? he hits 1 -2 people and 6 more are already hitting him with punches and kicks, he is taking them out while another wave is attacking him.
hell whats stopping them from just jumping on him and dog pile him? just because thugs never act like that in comics does not mean they cant its like its a constant PIS with thugs.
however PIS off and the thugs are actually fighting? they will take him down with such numbers.

Problem is, there comes a limit with PIS - Batman does it so regularly (same with Kingpin, Captain America etc) that you can't just classify him as human.

Taking out multiple police officers (who are obv trained) who all have their guns trained on him:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/lotdk165-batblinkspeed1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/lotdk165-batblinkspeed2.jpg

And again:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batman282-batcyclone2.jpg

As for speed, he can catch Impulse:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/impulse50-batimpulse1.jpg

Armed thugs attacking him from all sides:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Gunfire/detective743-batgunrush.jpg

I mean, the guy PUNCHES bullets out of the air. That is not mere human speed:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/004.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbulletblock.jpg

And catches arrows shot at him from behind, not just by Roy Harper:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batarsenal-batarrow.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batarsenal-batarrow2.jpg

But also Ollie:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/jla80pagegiant2-batgarrow.jpg

Originally posted by wolverinos
even in comics there is still some logic.
thugs in comics hurt batman before when they were actually fighting.
basically by your logic no matter how many thugs you throw at him he will just defeat everybody H2H? by your logic even 1000000 thugs vs batman will lose to him? hell the US should send him to IRAN to take everybody down H2H in that case.

The numbers don't really matter - its the 300 principle.

At any one time, only 6 will be attacking. The others won't even be able to get close to him. Then its simply a matter of his endurance - and I've shown him in combat against trained assassins (so nothing he could end in 1 or 2 moves) for 28 hours.

I get what you're trying to do with this thread - you wanted to see Batman bleeding and defeated. He may bleed, but he won't be defeated.

And as for comic book logic - yes, there is an internal comic logic. And that is that Batman is so far above mere humans, that defeating 10 rounds of 5 people each isn't out of the realms of possibility for him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Problem is, there comes a limit with PIS - Batman does it so regularly (same with Kingpin, Captain America etc) that you can't just classify him as human.

Taking out multiple police officers (who are obv trained) who all have their guns trained on him:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/lotdk165-batblinkspeed1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/lotdk165-batblinkspeed2.jpg

And again:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batman282-batcyclone2.jpg

As for speed, he can catch Impulse:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/impulse50-batimpulse1.jpg

Armed thugs attacking him from all sides:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Gunfire/detective743-batgunrush.jpg

I mean, the guy PUNCHES bullets out of the air. That is not mere human speed:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/004.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbulletblock.jpg

And catches arrows shot at him from behind, not just by Roy Harper:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batarsenal-batarrow.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batarsenal-batarrow2.jpg

But also Ollie:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/jla80pagegiant2-batgarrow.jpg

police officers did not try to fight him they were pointing their guns at him and did not expect him to charge.if they were attacking him like the thugs in this scenario and there would be 50 of them the outcome could have been different.

batman did not catch bullets he only put his arm infront to block because he knew the mobsters would be shooting at him directly.

getting out of the fire direction of 3 gunman and snapping their rifles doesnt prove much.

as always guns pointed at him and he snatch them =/= beilg faster than a bullet, just him being faster then the average human reaction.

as i said earlier he is faster stronger more skilled and better than probably any thug, however 50 of them jumping at him from all directions and actually fighting with at least the IQ of 20 they will take him down.

So I guess you ignored my previous scans then of Batman getting mobbed? As well as catching impulse (a legit speedster), catching arrows fired at his back etc etc?

And you're going to dismiss all the instances of him beating mobs...because it doesn't fit in with your real world logic?

He does things that no human does. Even peak, not just average. You keep bandying the 50 number around....when it doesn't mean anything, as he'd only be fighting a certain amount of them at any one time.

They all dogpile him, say. How many will he immediately next to him, 2? 3? As he's laying on the ground. Great, they're pressure pointed. What is tthe guy on the top of the dogpile going to do,magically attack him through all the bodies??

I raised a few points in this post, so make sure you answer al of them!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Batman gets dogpiled. Not by random thugs, but by the craziest of the crazy, Arkham Asylumn:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/shadowofthebat3-batvsarkhamrogues1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/shadowofthebat3-batvsarkhamrogues2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/shadowofthebat3-batvsarkhamrogues3.jpg

Being dogpiled by thugs. With guns. Looks to me about 50 of them:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob3.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob4.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob5.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob6.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob7.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob8.jpg

It send OP wanted this thread to show Batman dying.

I'm not saying that I don't see a situation off him losing but of he wanted to do that then he should have put a thread of Batman vs SBP

Originally posted by Alias Stone
It send OP wanted this thread to show Batman dying.

I'm not saying that I don't see a situation off him losing but of he wanted to do that then he should have put a thread of Batman vs SBP

Pretty much. Alas, he chose the wrong stips lol.

Batman would defeat them all by handing out pressure point strikes like they were cookies. Could they win? Sure if he messes up, but this is his fight to lose.

lololol and double triple lololol.. batman with or without gadgets wins.. the man still has his 3 million martial arts moves that he has learned .. No reason for me not to believe that he will easily evade and take them out one by one

Originally posted by wolverinos
i am a martial artist myself and let me tell you something, if multiple attackers from different directions are able to circle you , then you are done.
thinking otherwise = not knowing much about fighting but rather living in a fantasy land.

if 50 people go at him all at once even if there is only space for 6 people at a time they will still surround him and take him down, he cannot react to 6 different angles and directions at the same time, in order to do that you got to have a super human speed.

and as much as i know your average street thug has minimal knowledge of street fighting and can easily apply something such as a choke, jump to his legs and take him down, hit to the tample, hit to the balls from behind, in comics they are not applying anything, however if batman really had to fight 50 people who are going at him with some minimal brain he is done.

Originally posted by h1a8
Those thugs would be statues to him.

mmm

Originally posted by h1a8
Batman has superhuman speed and senses. Remember he is a bullet timer. Those thugs would be statues to him. He would literally one shot each one and down 6 of them in less than 2 seconds. Being a MA you should know that you are not suppose to stand still while being attack, but move around quickly and smoothly.

Post scans of Batman doing this.