Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You think Aquaman is much faster then Namor?Why?
Based on feats.
Simple as that.
I have seen every Namor feat there is speedwise (from his respect thread on this and other sites) likewise for Aquaman, and based on feats there is a very considerable gap.
Every time I've debated this topic there hasn't been a single time that anyone could give feats for Namor close to Aquaman's speed.
Originally posted by comicfan11
Based on feats.
Simple as that.
I have seen every Namor feat there is speedwise (from his respect thread on this and other sites) likewise for Aquaman, and based on feats there is a very considerable gap.
Every time I've debated this topic there hasn't been a single time that anyone could give feats for Namor close to Aquaman's speed.
Maybe you haven't been debating the right people. What's Aquaman's best feat then?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Maybe you haven't been debating the right people. What's Aquaman's best feat then?
Oh you are welcome to try and come up with something new for Namor.
I welcome it, since I was thinking they were closer before actually looking to their feats.
Anyway current New 52 Aquaman has hypersonic speed at minimum (Mach 5-Mach10) and his leaps/charges are also in the hypersonic category (like when he charged WW).
For pre Flashpoint Aquaman, he has many that border on ridiculous.
He outswam Superman, he has done 20000 feet per second, he has kept up with Flash on water multiple times and replicated Flash's tricks underwater, created vacumns in the water by spinning fast, etc etc.
I don't have scans now, but most of those scans should be posted on his respect thread.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Rage against comicfan11. This should be good, actually. Both people who'll debate without it turning into a sh!tstorm (and I'm being serious here).Looking forward to it.
Heh I'll be genuinely surprised for this to actually be a debate.
I have debated about this topic, also on this site for years, and the results are always the same.
Aquaman is faster.
But if Rage finds something it should be interesting.
Originally posted by comicfan11
Oh you are welcome to try and come up with something new for Namor.
I welcome it, since I was thinking they were closer before actually looking to their feats.Anyway current New 52 Aquaman has hypersonic speed at minimum (Mach 5-Mach10) and his leaps/charges are also in the hypersonic category (like when he charged WW).
For pre Flashpoint Aquaman, he has many that border on ridiculous.
He outswam Superman, he has done 20000 feet per second, he has kept up with Flash on water multiple times and replicated Flash's tricks underwater, created vacumns in the water by spinning fast, etc etc.I don't have scans now, but most of those scans should be posted on his respect thread.
When did Aquaman out swim Superman and move at 20,000 feet per second? The rest I've seen and it's nothing beyond what Namor's accomplished. We've seen Namor swim alongside Surfer in flight, keep up with the Quinjet etc. Creating whirlpools underwater to suck out oxygen etc. are all things Namor has accomplished. He's even done so against the Hulk.
Regarding the Wonder Woman leap, I'm not sure what about it makes you think it was hypersonic?
Namor has also shown more agility then I've seen Aquaman demonstrate in the past. Something like this for example:
He's even done some Superman like moves where he turns his body into a drill (More then once) demonstrating legit super speed:
http://imageshack.us/a/img456/4111/001drillsthroughrockstrkk1.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img505/9677/002drillsthroughrockagafc0.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img174/333/012drillsthroughrockagajt7.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img357/3946/0122drillsthroughrockaggn4.jpg
Torpedoes might as well be in slow motion to Namor:
I don't have the original feat but here is a retelling of when Namor was even able to keep up and leap across asteroids/meteors (Speed is mach 20-300 I believe) to catch Doom's spaceship:
http://imageshack.us/a/img376/3624/026meteorspeedrecalledngp0.jpg
We've even seen him run at super speed:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/183/007runsthroughstreetswiow3.jpg/
In terms of reflexes, Namor regularly keeps up speedy bricks but also has a few of his own legitimate speed feats. Here he hurls a Scepter at the speed of thought:
http://imageshack.us/a/img507/4668/004hurlswiththespeedoftyc9.jpg
He also has the obligatory laser dodging:
http://imageshack.us/a/img256/549/005dodgeslethoraystta75yk5.jpg
Spear catching etc. super speed feats:
http://imageshack.us/a/img183/4004/022catchesaharpooncasolhp0.jpg
Moving too fast for any mortal etc.:
http://imageshack.us/a/img386/6544/019nomortalcanmovesofasfv1.jpg
Shielding a scientist in seconds:
http://imageshack.us/a/img505/966/010savesikthonsm032xo0.jpg
Too swift for tank fire and targeting:
http://imageshack.us/a/img362/5414/025dodgeswartankdfv1081xa0.jpg
He can also fly, extremely fast. Here he flies at 100,000 feet in moments:
http://imageshack.us/a/img71/9978/0202catchesamissiledfv1ph1.jpg
We've also seen Namor fly across the planet in minutes to hours (Depending on the comic), and even into space in seconds. Too lazy to find everything but I'll provide references and probably scans for anything you want.
Yeah I've seen all those scans and while nice most are nice, they are not as fast as Aquaman's.
Aquaman's leaps in New 52 can be measured since it takes him a couple of seconds to go from the harbor of Boston to downtown Boston and the distance is between 3-8 kms depending on where in the harbor he was.
Those in space are also in vacumn, so not exactly legit in atmosphere speed.
A Quinjet also at the time of Namor swimming besides it had a max speed of Mach 1,2 which is nice but well below Aquaman's.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3378320-aq_sup+01.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3378321-aq_sup+02.jpg
Aquaman outreacting and then outswimming Superman.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3402295-aq+sil+1.jpg
Also confirming he is faster (when uninjured) than Supes underwater
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3378308-aq_fla+01.jpg
Doing an actual Flash trick, underwater.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420870-aq_sp+3.jpg
Elevating a plane by creating whirlpool
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420925-aq_mac+1.jpg
Superspeed dodging of machine gun fire on land.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420938-aq_tho+1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420939-aq_tho+2.jpg
Superspeed dodging and deflecting a thousand spears targeting him
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420930-aq_sha+1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420931-aq_sha+2.jpg
Dodging point blank laser (two), and despite some doubt being indeed faster than the Shark
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420926-aq_mul+1.jpg
Blitzing 3 different enemies in one page, 2 of them (Shark and King Shark) possessing super speed underwater.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420923-aq_fee+1.jpg
Creating a mini whirlpool that takes out multiple demons, just by using his legs
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420932-aq_shi+1.jpg
Swims so fast the water starts churning up and melting an iceberg, to free a huge ship
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420936-aq_sta+1.jpg
"speed of a star", dodges lasers (and gets hit by his supposed ally)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420935-aq_spi+1.jpg
Spins so fast that the enemy can't touch him
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420929-aq_see+1.jpg
Too fast to see
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420958-aq_tun+1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420941-aq_tun+2.jpg
Does the Namor drilling thing, but in water creating a trench in the water.
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2730/aquamanv510159vg.jpg
Dodges GL construct right in front of him and blitzes
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1876/aquamanswimmingat10000fps3pd.jpg
20000 feet per second (3,8 miles per second)
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8665/aquamanspeedfeat08ka1.jpg
Blitzing Thanatos (evil Aquaman double)
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2264/aquamanspeedfeat09yn1.gif
Stating how fast he is out of water.
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9915/jlagk02pg09js3.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4184/jlagk02pg10bv1.jpg
Dodging and taking out a giant
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/718/aquamanspeedfeat19gm2.jpg
Dodging Fire and Gardner's blasts easily
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4886/aquamanspeedfeat22sr4.jpg
Keeping up with Flash
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420997-aq_eel+1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420998-aq_eel+2.jpg
Dodging multiple projectiles and blitzing the villain multiple times before they hit water.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420998-aq_eel+2.jpg
Reacting to Flash.
I don't have any JL feats for now, but when I do I'll post if needed.
The Flash and Superman feats should be enough to make my point, but even if they aren't Aquaman has better quantifiable feats anyway.
Also by Namor's own admission if I'm not mistaken he is slower than Marinna and she has a top speed of around 800 knots, which is much slower than Aquaman in a bad day.
Originally posted by comicfan11
Yeah I've seen all those scans and while nice most are nice, they are not as fast as Aquaman's.
Aquaman's leaps in New 52 can be measured since it takes him a couple of seconds to go from the harbor of Boston to downtown Boston and the distance is between 3-8 kms depending on where in the harbor he was.
We'll see.
So you don't know?
Originally posted by comicfan11
Those in space are also in vacumn, so not exactly legit in atmosphere speed.
A Quinjet also at the time of Namor swimming besides it had a max speed of Mach 1,2 which is nice but well below Aquaman's.
That doesn't mean it's not ridiculously fast. He reached Doom's speeding rocket by leaping across asteroids.
According to what?
Originally posted by comicfan11
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3378320-aq_sup+01.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3378321-aq_sup+02.jpgAquaman outreacting and then outswimming Superman.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3402295-aq+sil+1.jpg
Also confirming he is faster (when uninjured) than Supes underwater
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3378308-aq_fla+01.jpg
Doing an actual Flash trick, underwater.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420870-aq_sp+3.jpg
Elevating a plane by creating whirlpool
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420925-aq_mac+1.jpg
Superspeed dodging of machine gun fire on land.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420938-aq_tho+1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420939-aq_tho+2.jpgSuperspeed dodging and deflecting a thousand spears targeting him
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420923-aq_fee+1.jpg
Creating a mini whirlpool that takes out multiple demons, just by using his legs
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420932-aq_shi+1.jpg
Swims so fast the water starts churning up and melting an iceberg, to free a huge ship
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420936-aq_sta+1.jpg
"speed of a star", dodges lasers (and gets hit by his supposed ally)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420935-aq_spi+1.jpg
Spins so fast that the enemy can't touch him
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420930-aq_sha+1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420931-aq_sha+2.jpgDodging point blank laser (two), and despite some doubt being indeed faster than the Shark
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420929-aq_see+1.jpg
Too fast to see
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420958-aq_tun+1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420941-aq_tun+2.jpgDoes the Namor drilling thing, but in water creating a trench in the water.
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8665/aquamanspeedfeat08ka1.jpg
Blitzing Thanatos (evil Aquaman double)
I don't have any JL feats for now, but when I do I'll post if needed.
😐
All of these are Pre-Crisis as far as I can tell. Why are they relevant here?
Originally posted by comicfan11
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2730/aquamanv510159vg.jpgDodges GL construct right in front of him and blitzes
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1876/aquamanswimmingat10000fps3pd.jpg
20000 feet per second (3,8 miles per second)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420926-aq_mul+1.jpg
Blitzing 3 different enemies in one page, 2 of them (Shark and King Shark) possessing super speed underwater.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2264/aquamanspeedfeat09yn1.gif
Stating how fast he is out of water.
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9915/jlagk02pg09js3.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4184/jlagk02pg10bv1.jpgDodging and taking out a giant
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/718/aquamanspeedfeat19gm2.jpg
Dodging Fire and Gardner's blasts easily
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4886/aquamanspeedfeat22sr4.jpg
Keeping up with Flash
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420997-aq_eel+1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420998-aq_eel+2.jpgDodging multiple projectiles and blitzing the villain multiple times before they hit water.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/137442/3420998-aq_eel+2.jpg
Reacting to Flash.
Where did he react to Flash?
These are Post-Crisis and impressive I guess but which one of these is suppose to prove that Aquaman is faster then Namor, much less a lot faster? Mostly it's him dodging or swimming fast, which Namor has in spades. For example:
Originally posted by comicfan11
The Flash and Superman feats should be enough to make my point, but even if they aren't Aquaman has better quantifiable feats anyway.
You think swimming alongside the Flash proves he's faster? That is not at all the case. Contrary to popular believe, the Flash doesn't run around at light speed. Not even close.
Besides, it'd be like me posting a scan of Namor catching Surfer and claiming that conclusively proves he's faster:
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Sub-Mariner34c.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Sub-Mariner34d.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Sub-Mariner34e.jpg
Or him swimming and keeping up with Captain Marvel while in her light form:
Regarding Superman: I'm not going to debate Pre-Crisis DC, I only have a cursory knowledge about that version.
Which quantifiable feats are better? Post them please.
Originally posted by comicfan11
Also by Namor's own admission if I'm not mistaken he is slower than Marinna and she has a top speed of around 800 knots, which is much slower than Aquaman in a bad day.
I've never seen this. If Marinna is faster then Namor, her ceiling must be much higher.
Namor blitzing the Hulk:
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100h.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100i.jpg
Eventually beating him with a Whirlpool:
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100m.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100n.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100o.jpg
Another instance:
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118c.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118d.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118e.jpg
Well, I'd definitely put Namor on Aquaman's level of speed unless someone presents some evidence that would say otherwise. Funny how thinks work like that. 🙂
Tbh, so far, Namor has the more impressive feats. I've been okay with mix and matching Pre and Post Flashpoint feats, although it can be a little confusing, but Pre-Crisis doesn't count in my book.
Namor flies from the Stratosphere to the ground in moments:
http://imageshack.us/a/img71/7201/019fromstratospheredfv1yb2.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img507/4773/0192fromstratospheredfvyr4.jpg
Here Captain Mar-Vell actually has to strain to catch up to a disoriented Namor:
I'm confused. Was that suppose to prove that Aquaman is noticeably faster? He was actively dodging all of Namor's hits (Which is all he really can do tbh) but at the same, he admitted that he couldn't land a punch either and that their speed was too evenly matched. Namor still rocked him good however when he needed to.
What was up with Namor though? Since when is he so obsessed with holding back and not hurting his opponent in a high stake battle? Well, I guess some liberties have to be taken for their to be a fight.
Originally posted by -K-M-
Because Aquaman was trying to talk down a pissed Namor and not taking it seriously and was still avoiding his shots (AM was smiling while Namor looked pissed). When he thought Namor was done...they stopped throwing punches, Namor landed the blow.Regardless it's not canon
You think Namor was pissed? HA! He was relatively calm for Namor. As a matter of fact, he was all about holding back and not doing Aquaman real harm. 😬 Weird.
About the second point, it might be possible that Aquaman let his guard down but he seemed to be actively trying to dodge. Either way, Aquaman by his own admission said that their speed was evenly matched and that neither could land a blow. Not really supporting the whole idea that Aquaman has a noticeable speed edge.
To be clear, I'm not arguing that Namor is much faster then Aquaman. If Aquaman focuses on keeping distance, it is possible (Underwater) but at the same time, he's not faster imo (My mind is open to new evidence). It's not like Spider-Man vs. Rhino. He can't dance around Namor and land blows at will.
Also, where are you getting from that Aquaman was trying to talk Namor down? He was actively shit-talking. 😐
Edit: Yea, non canon, so mostly irrelevant.
Because he was trying to say this could go on forever, were too evenly matched, lets end it....They stop...then punch.
Also yes, Namor had a pissed off look while Aquaman was smiling. Was Namor blood thirsty? No of course not, but you can be pissed and not be at that level. Definitely was taking it more seriously then Aquaman
Originally posted by -K-M-
Because he was trying to say this could go on forever, were too evenly matched, lets end it....They stop...then punch.Also yes, Namor had a pissed off look while Aquaman was smiling. Was Namor blood thirsty? No of course not, but you can be pissed and not be at that level. Definitely was taking it more seriously then Aquaman
But he specifically says that neither of them will land a punch. So yes, Aquaman was actively dodging his attacks, but he couldn't land a punch either.
And right before he punches him, Namor was smiling. Saying that Namor was taking it more seriously then Aquaman is one thing. At his core, Namor is less open to a joking nature. However, that doesn't mean one of them was putting in less effort than the other, just to be clear. Both wanted the fight to end. Namor wanted to score a knock out, Aquaman was taunting him and wanted to end it. I guess in that respects, they are different characters.
