and did we see him try?
He smiled which made Aquaman think the fight was over and he got through to him which allowed the punch to land 😬 That's actually a pretty common scene in MANY comic books. No, hook hand Aquaman is generally not in a joking manner. Have you read much Aquaman? Not to be rude, just asking.
Problem with DC vs. Marvel crossover it took liberties with many characters. The scans were not meant to cause this much discussion...it is pretty clear cut, but it's also non-canon
Originally posted by -K-M-
and did we see him try?He smiled which made Aquaman think the fight was over and he got through to him which allowed the punch to land 😬 That's actually a pretty common scene in MANY comic books. No, hook hand Aquaman is generally not in a joking manner. Have you read much Aquaman? Not to be rude, just asking.
Problem with DC vs. Marvel crossover it took liberties with many characters. The scans were not meant to cause this much discussion...it is pretty clear cut, but it's also non-canon
Uh....yes.
Okay, I'm open to other interpretations but I think you're reading too much into this. Namor smiled and struck him. Imo, he was amused because Aquaman underestimated his speed. You can chose to disagree with this, but I don't think it was some clever ruse to get him to drop his guard or something. At least, I don't see any evidence to suggest this. Namor took him out mid sentence, a sentence that started before his grin.
I agree, hook Aquaman isn't much for jokes and is usually very serious (I have read most of Aquaman's Post-Crisis runs) while Wally, Plastic Man are the jokers. But like you said, this crossover took liberties. I'm just taking their characterization for what it is. Aquaman was more of a joker and it played off of Namor's more grim attitude.
But yea, enough of this. Agree to disagree.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Well, I'd definitely put Namor on Aquaman's level of speed unless someone presents some evidence that would say otherwise. Funny how thinks work like that. 🙂Tbh, so far, Namor has the more impressive feats. I've been okay with mix and matching Pre and Post Flashpoint feats, although it can be a little confusing, but Pre-Crisis doesn't count in my book.
Namor flies from the Stratosphere to the ground in moments:
http://imageshack.us/a/img71/7201/019fromstratospheredfv1yb2.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img507/4773/0192fromstratospheredfvyr4.jpgHere Captain Mar-Vell actually has to strain to catch up to a disoriented Namor:
Um precrisis and postcrisis Aquaman unlike other some other DC characters shares continuity.
The vast majority of his stories are based on precrisis continuity and would not be possible if it was a different character, same as his supporting cast and enemies. No precrisis, no dead kid, no crazy Mera, no Black Manta etc.
Apart from that if you want to get technical Post Crisis Aquaman received at least 2 power ups, which would make him more powerful than any of his previous incarnations.
Apart from that, TBH (as you like to say) all I saw was Namor looking fast (artwork) and not a single quantifiable feat close to Aquaman's speed (especially swimming).
Also if you believe that Namor floating in space translates to his actual speed in an atmosphere, then sorry dude I'm not here to teach you science.
So if these are Namor's best feats, then as I predicted, yeah he is much slower than Aquaman.
I'll find one of the multiple times Namor admits he is slower than Marrina and post it sometime, as well as her top speed at around 800 knots (swimming).
Finally does Namor have any quantifiable swimming feat better than 20000 feet per second?
He flies fast, but swimming? Does he have anything close to that?
Honestly the only feat I hadn't seen before was the one with the palace, which was OK, but as with most of Namor's feats it was nice artwork with no timeframe.
And in DC vs Marvel, Aquaman was noticeably faster than a Namor trying his best to tag him.
Also -K-M- since you are the resident expert in Alpha Flight, can you post the scans of Marinna, to put this debate to an end?
AM beats regular attuma handily imo. he certainly doesn't beat worthy attuma. don't know about doom attuma.....
as far as speed--my generalized impression has always been that Am was faster, but not by some great amount. i think it's because his speed has been highlighted more often, perhaps because his strength wasn't so great as namor's? not sure. rage showed some great feats i'd long forgotten about and based on what has been shown in this thread, namor may well be as fast, if not faster. i think if they ever squared off for real, AM would prove to be quicker, but i certainly don't think the speed difference would be great enough to be any kind of major advantage in a fight between them.
Originally posted by comicfan11
Um precrisis and postcrisis Aquaman unlike other some other DC characters shares continuity.
The vast majority of his stories are based on precrisis continuity and would not be possible if it was a different character, same as his supporting cast and enemies. No precrisis, no dead kid, no crazy Mera, no Black Manta etc.
Apart from that if you want to get technical Post Crisis Aquaman received at least 2 power ups, which would make him more powerful than any of his previous incarnations.
A few of DC's characters have kept bits and pieces of their continuity from Pre-Crisis. That in no way means that their feats transfer over. Not sure why I have to explain this, when one of the driving points of the CoIE was to ground DC's power levels. As a matter of fact, we've seen that even when some Pre-Crisis events are re-enacted in Post-Crisis, and sometimes they are not exactly the same.
Originally posted by comicfan11
Apart from that, TBH (as you like to say) all I saw was Namor looking fast (artwork) and not a single quantifiable feat close to Aquaman's speed (especially swimming).Also if you believe that Namor floating in space translates to his actual speed in an atmosphere, then sorry dude I'm not here to teach you science.
It's at least as impressive if not more so imo.
What?
Originally posted by comicfan11
So if these are Namor's best feats, then as I predicted, yeah he is much slower than Aquaman.
I'll find one of the multiple times Namor admits he is slower than Marrina and post it sometime, as well as her top speed at around 800 knots (swimming).
Much slower then Aquaman? 😂 Besides one swimming feat, everything you posted did not have any quantifiable numbers. As a matter of fact, it was mostly just him dodging generic lasers and shit.
Originally posted by comicfan11
Finally does Namor have any quantifiable swimming feat better than 20000 feet per second?
He flies fast, but swimming? Does he have anything close to that?
Honestly the only feat I hadn't seen before was the one with the palace, which was OK, but as with most of Namor's feats it was nice artwork with no timeframe.
I posted a scan of Namor going from the ocean floor into space in at least a few seconds. While carrying a heavy molecular destabilizing device. And IIRC he was having some head problems at the time.
20,000 fps is like 13,000 mph? To reach escape velocity alone, you need to hit 25,000 mph. And Namor did this while out of water where his strength isn't as great while lugging tons.
Originally posted by comicfan11
And in DC vs Marvel, Aquaman was noticeably faster than a Namor trying his best to tag him.
1. Non-canon.
2. If he was noticeably faster, Aquaman wouldn't have said they were equal. Nor would he have been unable to land a punch.
You're arguing that Aquaman is noticeably faster. And that it would give him a decent advantage in a fight. In that comic, all Aquaman could do is dodge.
Originally posted by comicfan11
Also -K-M- since you are the resident expert in Alpha Flight, can you post the scans of Marinna, to put this debate to an end?
Why do you think Marinna being faster then Namor will prove that Aquaman is faster if you can't prove with feats that Aquaman is faster then Namor?
Unless you're holding out on me in terms of feats, Namor has noticeably better movement speed (True super speed akin to a flying speed), arguably superior reflexes, and faster travel speed. At least with his flight aiding him.
Originally posted by leonidas
AM beats regular attuma handily imo. he certainly doesn't beat worthy attuma. don't know about doom attuma.....as far as speed--my generalized impression has always been that Am was faster, but not by some great amount. i think it's because his speed has been highlighted more often, perhaps because his strength wasn't so great as namor's? not sure. rage showed some great feats i'd long forgotten about and based on what has been shown in this thread, namor may well be as fast, if not faster. i think if they ever squared off for real, AM would prove to be quicker, but i certainly don't think the speed difference would be great enough to be any kind of major advantage in a fight between them.
Pretty much. Namor's strength has gotten more play then his speed (Vise versa for Aquaman) but even so, he has enough feats under his speed that should indicate he's easily on Aquaman's level.
Movement speed and reaction speed wise? I'm giving it to Namor. Aquaman is agile, but Namor seems to demonstrate legit super speed.
I don't have the scans handy where Namor himself said she was faster (to lazy to read back issues to find it). However, here is the twins commenting on Marrina being faster then Namor
Marrina traveling 900 knots 1666.8 km/h—Faster than the speed of sound
Written by Bryne, who wrote many stories with Namor and the Fantastic Four.
According to comicfan, she topped at 800 knots. According to that panel, the moment she hits the water she's already going faster then 900 knots.
But it doesn't matter ultimately. Marrina being faster then Namor is worth less then Quan in a debate if Namor has feats matching Aquaman.
So far, the most impressive feat is this scan:
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1876/aquamanswimmingat10000fps3pd.jpg
He's definitely very fast, but not beyond Namor. Especially when we take into account his flight.
Edit: I just re-read the above scan. The man specifically says Aquaman's full range is 10,000 fps. He'd have to travel at those speeds directly up from 20,000 feet, not that he's moving at 20,000 fps. A very important distinction to note.
For those who are curious: 10,000 fps is 10972.8 km/h. Marrina is comfortably faster then Aquaman I guess. For some reason, I find that kind of amusing after all this focus on Marrina.
Some more Namor speed feats. He easily catches to speeding missiles with his hands at point blank range:
"Swimming at speeds beyond belief in a spiraling circle.."
Dodges a Torpedo in a split second:
http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q701/Matthews1986/torpedospeed15kz_zpsc6bda45f.gif
http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q701/Matthews1986/torpedospeed26gt_zps7631b0b0.gif
Catches a harpoon at point blank range:
http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q701/Matthews1986/harpooncatch4oh_zpsc66381e2.gif
Namor is faster then most give him credit for.
^ Dr. Doom resurrected Attuma after his death at the hands of Sentry. He also augmented Attuma to be Namor's physical equal. That is the current Attuma that is showing up in comics right now.
Originally posted by comicfan11If only that were the case, before and after you decided to post a dozen or so pre-Crisis scans.
LOL, AQ's feats between 1985 and 2011 are more than enough to prove my point.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Edit: I just re-read the above scan. The man specifically says Aquaman's full range is 10,000 fps. He'd have to travel at those speeds directly up from 20,000 feet, not that he's moving at 20,000 fps. A very important distinction to note.For those who are curious: 10,000 fps is 10972.8 km/h. Marrina is comfortably faster then Aquaman I guess. For some reason, I find that kind of amusing after all this focus on Marrina.
No he traveled at 20,000 fps as that's what gave him the bends. That was his limit going UP, not his top speed. He is against the constant change of pressure, which is what wrecked his body (Decompression Sickness). That's a lot different then going in a straight line in a constant pressure. 10000 fps UPWARDS is what he could do safely, same thing why Aurora and Northstar don't always go 99% the speed of light. If he had to do it in a straight line, without needing to reach equilibrium he could do 20,000 fps and above safely.
This is the same principle why Scuba Divers don't rise too quickly.
