Kratos vs Machamp

Originally posted by CosmicComet
😐 Because what the f*** else was he doing? Again, massaging his shoulders?

An infant is strong enough to push my finger and thumb back from crushing him.

It is an impressive statement on Kratos' behalf, considering that first book that BR cited says Atlas' lone hand was enough to balance the world if had to.

Either way, its impossible for it to be a lose situation on Kratos' behalf.

You've been retarded enough about this situation for years. Its sad that I even had to take the time to dig out an official statement on something that was obvious as all phuck.

You have girl hands. uhuh

And no, the retarded assumption has always been that Atlas was trying to crush someone he was talking to. Who he agrees to assist.

Jesus Christ. There's no spinning the retardation spewing here. This shit is simple.

Watch the sequence of events again. The reason he's talking to him is because KRATOS was talking to him while successfully pushing his fingers back, ergo, keeping himself alive.

To paraphrase:

Atlas: "I will make you suffer"

*proceeds to try to crush Kratos*

Kratos: "Atlas you must trust me"

*proceeds to successfully push the fingers back*

Atlas: "Why should I do that?"

*proceeds to attempt to crush again*

Kratos: "I'm trying to kill Zeus."

*proceeds to successfully push his fingers back again*

Atlas relents and is curious enough to listen.

That's it.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Jesus Christ. There's no spinning the retardation spewing here. This shit is simple.

Watch the sequence of events again. The reason he's talking to him is because KRATOS was talking to him while successfully pushing his fingers back, ergo, keeping himself alive.

To paraphrase:

Atlas: "I will make you suffer"

*proceeds to try to crush Kratos*

Kratos: "Atlas you must trust me"

*proceeds to successfully push the fingers back*

Atlas: "Why should I do that?"

*proceeds to attempt to crush again*

Kratos: "I'm trying to kill Zeus."

*proceeds to successfully push his fingers back again*

Atlas relents and is curious enough to listen.

That's it.

Frankly I'm back to thinking Kratos has dynamic strength if this is indeed canon.

At this point you're just arguing for the sake of your own salt.

A fine grip strength, as opposed to a really teeth clenching, sweat producing one? There's no such thing. You only have so much muscle in your thumb and forefinger. I can grip something with those digits as hard as I possibly can and still look completely casual, as if I'm not doing anything, because such a small group of muscle is not enough to remotely cause me to look like I need to gasp for breath.

Apparently it was a 'poor assumption' on my behalf when I was the one who was actually correct this whole time? Funny that.

You've tried too hard to suspend the simplest of conclusions on this. Occam's Razor told you all you needed to know.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

A fine grip strength, as opposed to a really teeth clenching, sweat producing one? There's no such thing. You only have so much muscle in your thumb and forefinger. I can grip something with those digits as hard as I possibly can and still look completely casual, as if I'm not doing anything, because such a small group of muscle is not enough to remotely cause me to look like I need to gasp for breath.

Apparently it was a 'poor assumption' on my behalf when I was the one who was actually correct this whole time? Funny that.

You've tried too hard to suspend the simplest of conclusions on this. Occam's Razor told you all you needed to know.

And no, there is a functional difference between fine grip strength and actually trying to damage something, it's the difference between plucking a grape and folding a beer cap.

It took you this long to pull up that quote, and if you had not had it, that scene would have never convinced anyone objective that Kratos had overpowered Atlas thumb and forefinger. 😐

Occam's Razor would conclude that a guy that's trying to take revenge on Kratos for his past trangressions against him, telling him that he will make him pay etc, is actually trying as best as he can with what he was doing.

No, you're bringing up incongruous actions and trying to make them equivalent for some reason. I'm taking about the comparison between holding a pencil with your thumb and finger (what Atlas used against Kratos) and then holding the pencil as hard as you can, also using your thumb and forefinger.

You can do the latter and not even look like you're trying to do anything out of the ordinary.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
it's the difference between plucking a grape and folding a beer cap.

Of course, you would know this. haermm

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Occam's Razor would conclude that a guy that's trying to take revenge on Kratos for his past trangressions against him, telling him that he will make him pay etc, is actually trying as best as he can with what he was doing.

No, you're bringing up incongruous actions and trying to make them equivalent for some reason. I'm taking about the comparison between holding a pencil with your thumb and finger (what Atlas used against Kratos) and then holding the pencil as hard as you can, also using your thumb and forefinger.

You can do the latter and not even look like you're trying to do anything out of the ordinary.

*Yoink*

Oh, look, it's this douche.

ATLASSSS, YOU MUST TRUST MEEEEEEEE

You're a douche, bro, why would I do that? You've been a dick ever since you started hanging out with Zeus.

BECAUSE I AM NOW A DOUCHE TO ZEUS!

Well, all right, go on then, little douchebro.

*assistance given*

^The abridged version.

Why would I believe that he was trying to kill Kratos? Seriously. Why would that scene have ever convinced anyone objective that was what was happening? I sure do like to kill my enemies by using two fingers. Right? This doesn't even make sense within the context of the universe where now Kratos is apparently strong enough to overpower Atlas whole arm by throwing a chain at him, and this occured in the past, and Atlas, knowing this, tries to kill him with two fingers.

Makes sense to m-No, it does not.

The only reason I'm accepting this is because you found a quote supporting it, and I'm reasonably sure it's canon. It's stupid, but hey. The scene itself though would never convince anyone reasonable.

As for the 'incongruous actions' thing, your example is basically the exact same as mine. You pluck a grape with two fingers, you hold a pencil with two fingers, you squeeze a beer cap with your thumb and finger, you squeeze a pencil the same way. There is a huge difference in the force used.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Of course, you would know this. haermm

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

Why would I believe that he was trying to kill Kratos? Seriously. Why would that scene have ever convinced anyone objective that was what was happening? I sure do like to kill my enemies by using two fingers. Right? This doesn't even make sense within the context of the universe where now Kratos is apparently strong enough to overpower Atlas whole arm by throwing a chain at him, and this occured in the past, and Atlas, knowing this, tries to kill him with two fingers.

He didn't know who it was at first, so he grabbed the tiny being with two fingers. Upon realizing it was Kratos, he tried to crush him. No one ever said he used the full strength of his hand, apparently by his estimation his thumb and index was enough. It would have been, but with effort.

And I don't know what you're talking about with overpowering Atlas' arm. Like I said before, he used Zeus' gauntlet to punch the chain, that wasn't purely his own strength.

As for the 'incongruous actions' thing, your example is basically the exact same as mine. You pluck a grape with two fingers, you hold a pencil with two fingers, you squeeze a beer cap with your thumb and finger, you squeeze a pencil the same way. There is a huge difference in the force used.

You pull on a grape to pluck it. That has little to do with the comparison other than having to grip it first. The point was simply that the analogy made no sense, hence I simplified it.

And exactly, squeezing a beer cap is easy enough. It takes no visible effort on my part to do so. And likewise even if I squeezed a pencil as hard as I could with thumb and forefinger, it would not look like I'm trying to do anything serious. There's only so much muscle I can summon, and therefore I can't look like I'm taxing myself in order to do anything.

It's simply hard to look strained when you're working with muscle groups that small.

And exactly, squeezing a beer cap is easy enough. It takes no visible effort on my part to do so. And likewise even if I squeezed a pencil as hard as I could with thumb and forefinger, it would not look like I'm trying to do anything serious. There's only so much muscle I can summon, and therefore I can't look like I'm taxing myself in order to do anything.

It's simply hard to look strained when you're working with muscle groups that small.

The thing is until that quote popped up nothing ever suggested he was trying to beercap Kratos v.s. ... Grape him?

The fact he was talking to him the entire time, and that he didn't even know who was freeing him before, suggests that he was being graped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJd-LE0A_qk

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Beer cap folding is serious business. Thumb and one finger, and you must achieve it with visible ease, or drink at the kiddie table. uhuh

Besides the fact that I don't drink (sorry to disappoint, bro), I used to centerpunch beer bottle caps with a bow from 30 to 50 yards. Do I pass the audition? uhuh

Again, how could you have possibly known that when the point was that the max vs min effort has next to no actual visual differences there at all? We know by his reaction to Kratos that he was trying to get his revenge.

And again, we can say he was trying to grape him before he knew he was Kratos. When he knew it was Kratos, he tried to beer cap him. Before he knew it was Kratos he was casually surprised by the tiny being's strength, when he got a closer look and id'd him as Kratos he knew exactly what he was dealing with and then actually tried to crush him.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Besides the fact that I don't drink (sorry to disappoint, bro), I used to centerpunch beer bottle caps with a bow from 30 to 50 yards. Do I pass the audition? uhuh

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Again, how could you have possibly known that when the point was that the max vs min effort has next to no actual visual differences there at all? We know by his reaction to Kratos that he was trying to get his revenge.

And again, we can say he was trying to grape him before he knew he was Kratos. When he knew it was Kratos, he tried to beer cap him. Before he knew it was Kratos he was casually surprised by the tiny being's strength, when he got a closer look and id'd him as Kratos he knew exactly what he was dealing with and then actually tried to crush him.

We know by his reaction that Atlas was having a conversation with someone who freed him and ended up giving this guy his assistance.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kiddie table.

"F**k yo couch, nigga!"

Also, no, because I'm not drinking, so 😛.

Apple juice.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Apple juice.

Even worse. F**k yo juice! *slices juice in half (regardless of container)*

Originally posted by CosmicComet
And I don't know what you're talking about with overpowering Atlas' arm. Like I said before, he used Zeus' gauntlet to punch the chain, that wasn't purely his own strength.

You know, I'll admit, I haven't played Chains of Memories (Or rather I did on my hacked PSP, but it was glitched and I had to quit), so I did not know about nor did I notice Zeus' gauntlet. So a mistake on my part.

Not that it really matters. His feats against Hades and Poseidon are more than enough.

Originally posted by BloodRain
"I will make you suffer"

Then does so whilst probing for answers. Isn't that what this side has been arguing for?

Gonna bump this up. Seems relevant.

Look on the last page, its already been resolved by an official quote.

Atlas tried to crush him twice. Kratos successfully pushed his fingers back twice. Atlas' questioning came from Kratos talking to him and successfully pushing his fingers back, thus giving a reason for Atlas to listen and respond.