Why does all literature place Sidious as strongest sith lord?

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
To make up for him being a pretty lousy character. Instead of him being a compelling villain through motivation and original characteristics, they instead decide to load him up with uber abilities. Same goes for Emperor Vitiate. Crappy character, but uberly powerful.

He knows just where to hurt them, had Order 66 as a contingency plan.

He's anything you want him to be, and that's why he owns your pathetic mind, he can manipulatr in any way he wishes, with or without the force.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Sidious/Palpatine is a pretty complex character, and easily the best actor in the prequel's. (I know that isn't saying much, but he is f*cking magic in those movies)

He knows just where to hurt them, had Order 66 as a contingency plan.

He's anything you want him to be, and that's why he owns your pathetic mind, he can manipulatr in any way he wishes, with or without the force.

And he does have the best acting in the Prequels, but with wooden actors like Hayden Christenen and Natalie Portman around to make him look better by comparison, that's not saying too much.

jmanghan
Sidious/Palpatine is a pretty complex character,

I wouldn't say so. Sidious is pretty static; he doesn't really experience any observable character development or internal progression/regression. As a "person," he ends exactly where he begins.

Now if you mean to say that Sidious is a character who drives the story in complex ways, then I'd wholeheartedly agree.

Dark-Kenshin
When you get down to the brass tacks, he's basically just another Darth Elmo evil for the sake of being evil Sith Lord.

That's not it, either. Sidious is a malignant narcissist and sociopath whose primary pursuit is the acquisition of power. If he were just a naked sadist or psychopath, he'd have never pulled off his gambit, which required an assload of patience, restraint, and strategy.

And the pursuit of power is a 100% legitimate, believable, and compelling motivation in fiction and real life.

Now is it a particularly original motivation? Hell no. But very few things are.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
To make up for him being a pretty lousy character. Instead of him being a compelling villain through motivation and original characteristics, they instead decide to load him up with uber abilities. Same goes for Emperor Vitiate. Crappy character, but uberly powerful.

That's still textbook pursuit of power, Leg. Nothing original or special about it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's still textbook pursuit of power, Leg. Nothing original or special about it.

I am the MOST POWERFUL SITH THE UNIVERSE WILL EVER KNOW

Darth Caedus and Krayt you need to sit down somewhere

Pretty Sure it's common knowledge that Sidious would beat Krayt and Caedus.

SIDIOUS LORD OF ALL SOTH BLURG!

Originally posted by Jmanghan
had Order 66 as a contingency plan.

For him it was THE plan.

^ That would be a bad-ass sith name, though, Luminous means light, so... yeah.

Sidious is an average warrior at best in straight combat... Without any amps,he can be defeated by almost any popular Force user,such as Darth Revan,Darth Nihilus,Darth Vitiate,Exar Kun,Freedon Nadd...etc... Not saying Revan>Vitiate! Anyone who read Dark Empire,would know that something fishy was happening behind the scenes at Sidious' level of power.

Sidious is powerful however, but his true ability in the dark side is often exaggerated.
^
Not to mention that he lost the power he gained previously in the moment that the planet Byss was destroyed, and he never managed to gain complete control over the Force storms he created.

The only way to keep your power in the dark side is to absorb that power through killing, it seems. Even then, you'd have to be a Wound in the Force to truly keep all of that power beyond death (Nihilus)

To all extremely-biased Sidious fanboys...Sidious is not officially confirmed to be the "most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived".
^
He was considered to be such during his time by individuals such as Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader, Yoda, etc.

No one denies his *extreme* power in the dark side, but he does not know every Force power ever (much less all dark side powers). He only presumably knows all Force powers that were known by his predecessors in the Rule of Two. (It's not just the ability to "manipulate midi-chlorians to create life" that is not known to Palpatine)

One major advantage Vitiate has over Palpatine? None of the forms he's been encountered in by his opponents were ever his true form. Only his "Voices".

Because those rituals to wipe out planets'-worth of life succeeded, Vitiate already has power that far exceeds Palpatine. It doesn't matter that Vitiate required such cooperation and manipulation of several other Sith, because he already has all that power now, and is effectively immortal.

As far as my own bias would go? Vitiate's the true "Shadow", as Palpatine failed to achieve some (if not most) of the same feats.

More of Palpatine's [admittedly many] failings?

- Palpatine has never achieved full mastery of the technique that allowed him to move his spirit to new bodies after physical death. He could've, but he killed Plagueis before he could learn more. 😛

- Palpatine could harness the energy of billions of life-forms to power himself, specifically the entire population of Byss...but only while they were all ALIVE and under his spell.
^
Vitiate permanently attained all the power he gained from consuming life, killing them all in the process. Vitiate was already at the point where he would truly never have need of a lightsaber (even compared to Palpatine), only his raw power in the dark side of the Force.

Sidious could siphon power from "billions" (most of them not even Force-sensitive)? Vitiate could permanently keep power that he consumed from the deaths of over 8,000 powerful Sith Lords (and likely a whole lot more since then)?
^
Quality over quantity, I say. Not only that, but the true power of the dark side comes from death, not keeping your victims alive.

Sidious was declared *most powerful Sith Lord* just in the movies,therefore that fails to apply in the EU!

The Dark Empire End notes actually do not indicate "of all time". They only state the Emperor to have supposedly become the dark side's "most powerful expression".
^

That does not literally mean he's become the most powerful darksider of all time. It only means that, of all darksiders still alive in his time (and certainly since he became the Sith Lord back then), he's the most powerful of them)

Considering that most of sources used are either outdated or only claim him to be the most powerful Sith of his time (and the Jedi in the movies only count down to the Sith of 1,000 years ago, no earlier)?

Strongest opponent "that Yoda ever fought", simply enough. This hardly means "in history", sorry.

Considering that AotC Anakin still had his flesh forearm before it was cut off by Dooku? Yes, he could've become even more powerful by the time of Revenge of the Sith, if he never lost a limb or was trapped in his armor as Darth Vader.

I also use the "year thing" because of retcons, additions to the universe, and other changes made to the "same level" of canon.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Sidious was declared *most powerful Sith Lord* just in the movies,therefore that fails to apply in the EU!

Incorrect on so many levels. Sidious was never declared the most powerful Sith Lord in the movies, these sources are exclusively from the EU.

Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.

--Vader, the Ultimate Guide

Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

--The New Essential Chronology

Instead, Yoda faces the dark side's fury, channeled by the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

--Star Wars Insider #86

So on so forth. There are tons of EU sources that tell us Sidious is the best in history, I have no idea why this is even in question.

And LOL @ calling that outdated material. Freedon Nadd hasn't made an appearance since the 1990's.

The sources and lores always contradict themselves over the time. It would be something puerile to accept the idea of "within universe timeline",and to not take in mind of retcons,new informations...etc...

Everything that states that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord,comes only from the sources of the movies,or those damn books... Even then,many of the informations and lines about Palpatine,puts him just above or the best of the Banite Lords,starting from Darth Bane... But if I think better,it never mentions something about raw Force power if you analyze better that line,it says that the Banite Sith have waited for someone to take over the galaxy and destroy the Jedi Order. It makes no reference to his *own power* "The Sith have waited millennium for the birth of one who is powerful enough to return them from hiding. Darth Sidious is that one—the Sith's revenge on the Jedi order for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side of the Force." --Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary

*Powerful enough* it is a vague statement after all... It also refers to someone who is very resolved and is very dedicated to that purpose of *destroying the Jedi Order* and has the necessary means,like money,alliances,mass manipulation...etc...

Powerful enough=capable enough

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Incorrect on so many levels. Sidious was never declared the most powerful Sith Lord in the movies, these sources are exclusively from the EU.

Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.

[b]--Vader, the Ultimate Guide

Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

--The New Essential Chronology

Instead, Yoda faces the dark side's fury, channeled by the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

--Star Wars Insider #86

So on so forth. There are tons of EU sources that tell us Sidious is the best in history, I have no idea why this is even in question. [/B]

1.) Yoda's far from the most powerful Jedi in history, but he's the grandmaster and was the most powerful of his time before Anakin came into the picture. Come on, you can do better.

2.)Neither Rob Coleman and "Wheless" were responsible for Insider #86, which was also written in 2006. Rob Coleman worked for Industrial Light & Magic on both Episodes II & III, neither of which were (of course) part of the Expanded Universe.

3.)Vader: The "Ultimate" Guide was written back in 2005, and fails to take into account the fact that Darth Vader (before any of his limbs were ever severed and he became trapped in his armor) had potential in the Force to become twice as powerful as Palpatine.

4.) The Dark Side Sourcebook was written back in 2001. Ulic Qel-Droma wasn't even a "Sith". Palpatine's "taming" of the Dark Side still resulted in Dark-Side corruption (and not to mention that Palpatine has never succeeded in controlling a Force Storm)...and (most obviously) many other Sith characters weren't introduced yet back in 2001.

5.) Considering that Palpatine was the most powerful Sith of his time, of course he'd become the dark side's "most powerful" expression. All because Anakin never realized his full potential. It still fails to mention "of all time", if it really meant to say he was the most powerful Sith ever. (lol, no)

6.)The true power of the dark side comes from Death. A Sith would need to feed on the deaths of all beings that they kill in order to receive the real benefit. It's really too bad that Palpatine never showed himself capable of growing stronger from utilizing the loss of life, unlike Vitiate.

7.)Vitiate was not only under no threat of losing the power he gained by killing all those thousands of full-fledged Sith Lords he drained the Force from, but the sheer amount of power he gained from thousands of them would easily out-class billions of non Force-sensitives drained by Palpatine.

The Sith Emperor is more powerful in the Force, if not in intellect or cunning. As for the above poster who mentions that Palpatine was the only Sith to conquer the galaxy, you are wrong. We don't actually know yet. If you think back to Episode III, there are some lines that make me think otherwise. In the scene where Mace Windu attempts to arrest Palpatine, Windu says something along the lines of "the oppression of the Sith will never return!" Also, Palpatine says to the newly dubbed Darth Vader "ONCE AGAIN, the Sith will rule the galaxy." This obviously suggests that the Sith conquered the entire galaxy at some point previously to Episode III, and there isn't currently any established period in the lore where this has happened. Also, the culture, military and titles/ranks of Palpatine's empire is very similar to the Empire in the Old Republic, suggesting that Palpatine is modeling the Empire after the Empire in the Old Republic. Why would he do that unless he deeply admired it. All of this information combined seems to leave open the possibility, if not outright infers that the Empire will win the war in the Old Republic, and at least temporarily conquer the Republic outright. Truthfully though, it's impossible for anyone to know. We will have to see what happens in the story. Also, I don't recall Palpatine ever sapping the life of over 8000 Sith Lords simultaneously while completely stripping an entire planet of the Force like the Sith Emperor (Vitiate) did on Nathema. Food for thought. The Sith Emperor is no joke.