Originally posted by Stealth MooseAll the more reason. A warrior does not say "I shall seek glory in my training hall, where everyone is my friend", he says "I will donkey kick some dudes who are against me and thus win XP". [/B][/QUOTE] He might be able to reeducate them as he had reeducated some on the swtor forums.
[QUOTE=14529241]Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
[B]Don't do it, LeGenD. the PT bias there is swelling far more than you can possibly imagine.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
the ones are more powerful than vitiate.
Maybe more powerful in the force. The son would never be as cunning and manipulative as Vitiate. A mutiny against him by the dark council would finish him.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Vitiate is not god-level, lol. All these characters:
-The Ones (They don't just beat Vitiate, they completely trash him)
-Abeloth (Tendril spams him)
-Luke Skywalker (Most powerful Jedi in history)
-Palpatine (ROTS, ROTJ, & DE)
-Yoda (Yep, I said it)
-Darth Plagueis (Possibly?)
can beat him. And Caedus could come pretty close as well.I don't know how you can consider Vitiate the strongest when Palpatine has so many accolades going for himself. Hate to ruin the threa-wait...no I would love too. So here is a link to the true Dark Lord of the Sith: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=587671
Same with Palpatine. He is incredibly powerful but any dark council would fry his ass. I don't see anyone capable of dominating such a powerful empire full of extremely powerful sith lords like Jadus and Malgus the way Vitiate did. Would you expect a council of 6-7 Vaders bowing down to Palpatine instead of killing him?
His place in EU just shadows every other sith.
Also Vitiate would kick both Yoda's and Plagueis' ass in 1on1.
Luke would be a challenge but I don't see any of Luke's abilities overwhelming Vitiate's original body. He wouldn't even have to fight him probably as he would have the chance to turn him to dark side like he did to Revan and Malak.
Originally posted by Sinious
Maybe more powerful in the force. The son would never be as cunning and manipulative as Vitiate. A mutiny against him by the dark council would finish him.
A mutiny by the dark council against the son would finish the latter? You must be joking.
Originally posted by Sinious
Same with Palpatine. He is incredibly powerful but any dark council would fry his ass.
Originally posted by Sinious
I don't see anyone capable of dominating such a powerful empire full of extremely powerful sith lords like Jadus and Malgus the way Vitiate did.
Sidious is quite a bit more powerful than Jadus and Malgus bro. He could easily rule Vitiate's empire, in the sense of personal power.
Originally posted by Sinious
Would you expect a council of 6-7 Vaders bowing down to Palpatine instead of killing him?
Name one dark council member, sans maybe Nox, who is more powerful than Vader, and prove why.
Originally posted by Sinious
His place in EU just shadows every other sith.
In terms of accomplishments? Nah bro.
Originally posted by Sinious
Also Vitiate would kick both Yoda's and Plagueis' ass in 1on1.
Prove it.
Originally posted by Sinious
Luke would be a challenge but I don't see any of Luke's abilities overwhelming Vitiate's original body. He wouldn't even have to fight him probably as he would have the chance to turn him to dark side like he did to Revan and Malak.
I'm wondering if you actually think Revan and Malak at that point are even close to as powerful as Luke.
The son would be trouble to finish I accept but still possible cause he wasn't really that smart in CW. He had cool tricks but foreseeing stuff politically doesn't seem so likely for him. I mean c'mon he acted like he just hit puberty. So he wouldn't be prepared and a prepared dark council would take an unprepared son don't you think? It looks at least more likely for him to fall compared to Vitiate.
I don't believe there is a chance for Palpatine to survive as an Emperor for 1300 years in that era without even needing to communicate with his servants properly. He wasn't seen as a god like Vitiate in his rule. As Lord Scourge states:
"When I was born, the Emperor was the Empire. Everything existed to feed his whims. He was so far above us. No one, Sith or slave, would have dared even form an opinion about him."
This is what I mean by shadowing everyone else. The way he is respected by others in his era is so impressive and I don't see that with anyone else including Palpatine. Vitiate's ability to dominate people far from him in the galaxy and having voices representing him physically secured his original body which puts him in a higher position too since Palp was injured greatly the first time he revealed himself to the jedi as the Sith Lord and got killed by Vader which was pathetic no matter how hard it is to admit for me.
As there is no way of proving that he is stronger than Palpatine it's the same with Yoda so I can't show anything on this but his knowledge of the force is far more impressive as he can suck planets. I don't think we need evidence for Plagueis since he is in Revan's league no?
Revan and Malak weren't that weak when they faced the Emperor. He was the champion of the republic. Especially cause they were together it must have made it harder to crack their brains. Look how JK helps Kira to resist Vitiate's mind domination. So Luke alone facing Vitiate's original body is no so secure from the temptation of the dark side.
Originally posted by Sinious
The son would be trouble to finish I accept but still possible cause he wasn't really that smart in CW. He had cool tricks but foreseeing stuff politically doesn't seem so likely for him. I mean c'mon he acted like he just hit puberty. So he wouldn't be prepared and a prepared dark council would take an unprepared son don't you think? It looks at least more likely for him to fall compared to Vitiate.
Dude, the Son is literally a manifestation of the force itself. A dark council can't even begin to comprehend his power, much less combat and defeat him.
Originally posted by Sinious
I don't believe there is a chance for Palpatine to survive as an Emperor for 1300 years in that era without even needing to communicate with his servants properly. He wasn't seen as a god like Vitiate in his rule. As Lord Scourge states:
"When I was born, the Emperor was the Empire. Everything existed to feed his whims. He was so far above us. No one, Sith or slave, would have dared even form an opinion about him."
We're arguing personal, combative ability here right? Anyways, in terms of personal power, yes Vitiate was worshipped as a God among his people, but that was mainly due to his cunning (like leading them on a convoluted journey to Dromund Kaas), and his lack of connection with his empire (he really didnt care too much about it). But yes in terms of combative ability, it's way closer than you seem to think.
Originally posted by Sinious
As there is no way of proving that he is stronger than Palpatine it's the same with Yoda so I can't show anything on this but his knowledge of the force is far more impressive as he can suck planets. I don't think we need evidence for Plagueis since he is in Revan's league no?
He can suck planets with a ritual that required 8000 sith lords participating? Ok. Palpatine is also capable of draining and mind wiping on a planetary scale. Vitiate's never used drain in combat anyway. Plagueis is way above Revan imo.
Originally posted by Sinious
Revan and Malak weren't that weak when they faced the Emperor. He was the champion of the republic. Especially cause they were together it must have made it harder to crack their brains. Look how JK helps Kira to resist Vitiate's mind domination. So Luke alone facing Vitiate's original body is no so secure from the temptation of the dark side.
They were<<<<<<<Prime Luke at that point. Adding to that, they were unprepared, and the Emperor was fully prepared. Luke is too powerful to dominate, as was the HoT.
Well he is extremely powerful and 1 million years old if Im not wrong so Im not gonna argue but his teen attitude makes it so hard for me to respect him. 🙁
You cannot simply manipulate an empire full of sith lords with your character. It was obviously related to his extreme superiority in the force as well. It is close I agree but still Vitiate has the upper hand.
I meant his knowledge of power is way more impressive than Yoda. I don't think he has much on Palpatine even though I believe that he is just a bit better since he had more time to study the force.
I would say Plagueis is a better scholar but he is definitely not better then Revan as a warrior. What has he achieved that puts him so above Revan other than his discoveries on midi-chlorians?
Emperor was prepared because he had full control over his environment. Not because someone warned him am I wrong? So him being prepared actually supports the idea of how powerful he is. He literally cannot be surprised.
I'm just saying that he didn't even have to fight Revan and Malak to dominate their brains so maybe through combat and time Vitiate would break Luke's mental defenses enough to crush him and kill him if not to turn him to his slave. You can't deny that there is at least a possibility of that where Luke has no possibility to gain control over Vitiate at all. If he could break through Vitiate's force defenses and have a chance to fight him with sabers, he would win but I don't think he could.
HoT never fought Emperor's original body so that's irrelevant.
Originally posted by Sinious
Well he is extremely powerful and 1 million years old if Im not wrong so Im not gonna argue but his teen attitude makes it so hard for me to respect him. 🙁
Yeah I hate the Ones as well. However that doesn't change that they would annihilate any dark council.
Originally posted by Sinious
You cannot simply manipulate an empire full of sith lords with your character. It was obviously related to his extreme superiority in the force as well. It is close I agree but still Vitiate has the upper hand.
Oh of course part of it was due to his power, I was just saying that it shouldn't be what is fully credited. And palpatine does have a very large superiority in the force over anyone in the TOR Empire.
Originally posted by Sinious
I meant his knowledge of power is way more impressive than Yoda. I don't think he has much on Palpatine even though I believe that he is just a bit better since he had more time to study the force.I would say Plagueis is a better scholar but he is definitely not better then Revan as a warrior. What has he achieved that puts him so above Revan other than his discoveries on midi-chlorians?
1. Neither really has a knowledge advantage over the other tbh. And even if Vitiate has that advantage, in combat he uses...mind rape, lightning, TK, and duplicates, with mind rape not working on the top tier people? He doesn't use a wide breadth of abilities in combat (like most force users).
2. Well let's see. Plagueis is one of the fastest force users in the mythos, and his speed feats speak for themselves. He's charred to ash/dust with lightning. He's atomized armored assassins with TK, while physically weakened to an insane extent. Both of these show his immense raw power, which imo exceeds Revan's. As a duelist, he's considered a master of the art, which shows me that he can match Revan in this regard. So basically, he's faster, greater raw power, arguably superior mastery, and physically stronger.
Originally posted by Sinious
Emperor was prepared because he had full control over his environment. Not because someone warned him am I wrong? So him being prepared actually supports the idea of how powerful he is. He literally cannot be surprised.
No, his honor guards told him way beforehand, and that's why Vitiate was fully prepped. On the contrary, in a fair versus battle, he isn't prepared to such an extent that he would dominate Luke's mind.
Originally posted by Sinious
I'm just saying that he didn't even have to fight Revan and Malak to dominate their brains so maybe through combat and time Vitiate would break Luke's mental defenses enough to crush him and kill him if not to turn him to his slave. You can't deny that there is at least a possibility of that where Luke has no possibility to gain control over Vitiate at all. If he could break through Vitiate's force defenses and have a chance to fight him with sabers, he would win but I don't think he could.HoT never fought Emperor's original body so that's irrelevant.
1. Mentioned above.
2. The voice has the full power of the Emperor anyways, so that's irrelevant.
Well, didn't remember how Vitiate saw Revan coming with the details so yeah basically that doesn't count than.
Luke is likely to resist it but still would struggle and Vitiate mostly used enough power to gain physical control over his opponents like he did to Revan and HoT(first encounter). We don't know how powerful his force skills could be when he is fighting for his life. Also do you really think Luke would be able to dominate Revan the way Vitiate did when he faced the emperor for the second time? He would win but with a proper fight. Vitiate didn't even have to use his lightsaber. It simply doesn't make sense to say Luke would defeat Vitiate's original body.
Is it mentioned anywhere that the Voice has full power of Vitiate? Im not so sure because isn't that the only explanation of a young jedi killing a godlike sith emperor in his own temple? That he didn't fight his original body so it wasn't the same thing?
Vitiate's force skills when he was "fighting for his life" weren't a match for the HoT, I don't see how Luke would fare any worse, if not better. Some people argue Vitiate was weakened, some argue he had overcame his weakness, etc. Yes, Luke would be able to dominate Revan the way Vitiate did, especially considering he got knocked on his ass twice. Luke has proven to be as fast as Sidious, who in turn is quite a ways faster than Revan. Of course Vitiate didn't use his lightsaber, he'd be completely screwed if he had to resort to using it.
Yes Neph has a quote on that.
"For centuries, the Emperor's Voice has delivered the Sith leader's commandments to his servants. In fact, to converse with the Emperor's Voice is to have an audience with the Emperor himself, whose power and consciousness have been placed within the Voice's body."
SWTORE also says that the Voice 'wields the Emperor's incredible power'.
Well he wasn't fighting for his life cause he wasn't gonna die/loose his original body so it isn't the same thing at least physiologically but of course it was gonna wound his power so it was important I guess.
Yeah I think there is a theory that claims Vitiate was really weakened cause he spent a lot of energy on his ritual which doesn't sound so silly.
I think you are underestimating Revan a little. He is so dissed so much cause he got owned by Vitiate but like I said he is the only one who challenged Vitiate's original body on 1on1(almost) so it really makes sense to think that Vitiate's true body is more powerful then the voices. So I have to see the quote to believe it and even than it'll sound extremely stupid...
1. Well yeah, I dont see why Vitiate wouldn't fight to the best of his abilities against the Hero.
2. Meh, it evens out, with Vitiate recovering in one of the strongest nexuses ever and the Hero being weakened in said nexus, imo.
3. Nah. He just isn't much of a match for one as powerful as prime Luke. He's still very powerful of course. Yeah Neph just posted the quote.
Originally posted by Nephthys
"For centuries, the Emperor's Voice has delivered the Sith leader's commandments to his servants. In fact, to converse with the Emperor's Voice is to have an audience with the Emperor himself, whose power and consciousness have been placed within the Voice's body."SWTORE also says that the Voice 'wields the Emperor's incredible power'.
Just saw it after posting. Like I said it sounds extremely stupid to have HoT defeat him. A hero like Luke would have enough backstory and justification of his victory's logic to make it a proper victory against Vitiate but not the HoT. The hero simply doesn't match the villain.
Also because of the fact that this makes HoT much more powerful than Revan as well which is again silly.
I'll just ignore that quote 😛
The reason I see Vitiate above Luke and especially HoT is that because his ritual of consuming the galaxy is simply more impressive than anything I've seen in SW Universe. It seems to me that someone who has enough power and knowledge of the force to be able to perform such a ritual would be able to defeat a single jedi even though its Skywalker. Its just a way perception.
JK fights a human does he not? Emperor is sith pureblood. I wish they made Emperor a 16-men ops boss
I used to play until 3 months ago and had a guild even. I had to stop cause I moved to another country and didn't bring my desktop with me.
That galaxy consuming ritual needs long preparation though, and Sidious was apparently going to do a similar ritual as well. Just because he can undergo such a ritual, doesn't make him some immovable combatant. You would also have to note that vitiate is more of a scholar, not a warrior like the HoT. the latter is more skilled. So ultimately, in a combat situation, Vitiate is not capable of defeating the likes of the HoT/Luke.
The Jedi Knight class is pretty much the Luke Skywalker of TOR. They are the ultimate champion of light. Bioware has pushed all the main characters of TOR as basically being among the best of all time in their respective classes. Theres no reason for me to think that its not plausible for the HoT to actually beat Vitiate.
Except the HoT is above Revan. :T
Does he fight a human? It could easily just be an extremely corrupted pureblood. The darkside makes a purebloods skin white and their eyes red, just like the guy the HoT fights. Karpyshan also says that the Emperor has little in common now what he once was (or something).
Anyway, at the end of the day, even if the HoT didn't beat Vitiate, they're going to in the end as per Scourges vision so whatever.