Sith Emperor (Vitiate) Respect Thread

I don't think Sidious' version was that impressive and wide. Maybe something more similar to Vitiate's first ritual. Also quoting from Stealth Moose:
"Plagueyususis novel confirms that Sidious did not know Vitiate well and even implies he did not understand the nature of Vitiate's body hopping. Vitiate achieved what Sidious failed, which is physical longevity and effective immortality."

Still though the ritual is too big for him to be vulnerable to other individuals. He is not the dragon kidnapping the princess. He is the dragon that eats the galaxy. The knight shouldn't be able to slay him like that 😄
I hope Vitiate hunts him before his spirit vanishes completely. 🤣

I think Scourge's vision was pretty much what JK did already.

Well, the JK story is kind of a generic hero, and the knight saving the kingdom from a dragon or evil emperor is very accurate.

well it was on a galaxy-wide scale, so...

Vitiate being a mystery to Sidious and Plagueis hardly makes him more powerful though. I believe the general consensus was that he used essence transfer (correct me if i'm wrong).

So, from the specific characters we just talked about, it's something like (combatively):

Luke>HoT>Vitiate>Revan

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Well, the JK story is kind of a generic hero, and the knight saving the kingdom from a dragon or evil emperor is very accurate.

Thats what Im saying. The dragon should be less powerful if they're gonna make a cheesy story like that. Besides whats the point of other classes' stories than? JK ending is so much bigger than every other class it doesn't even make sense.

Originally posted by Sinious
I think Scourge's vision was pretty much what JK did already.

The JK hasn't had a chance to steal his power yet. Whatever that means.

"Jedi, shining with the Force, lined up to destroy him. All were swept aside. Revan and the Exile were cast at my feet. Then, out of the shadows, one Jedi emerged to cut the Emperor down. That Jedi wore your face.

In my vision, I bowed to you and took a crown from the Emperor's head. It ended when you held his power in your hands."

The Hero of Tython is going to be the next Sith Emperor. 😉

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ

Luke>HoT>Vitiate>Revan

I'll agree on this for now since Vitiate's story is probably not ended and more info of him is to come:

Luke>HoT
Luke(probably)>Vitiate
Vitiate-HoT not decided as they faced each other twice and the score is 1-1. Maybe it wasn't Vitiate's real body and they will face each other again? You can't say something specific about this as both characters are still not dead. Even HoT believed that he could still be alive.
All 3 would take Revan

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ

lololol he killed the father figure of my dreams... 🙁

Yeah about the HoT vs vitiate thing, i'm not gonna be too conclusive on it yet.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The JK hasn't had a chance to steal his power yet. Whatever that means.

"Jedi, shining with the Force, lined up to destroy him. All were swept aside. Revan and the Exile were cast at my feet. Then, out of the shadows, one Jedi emerged to cut the Emperor down. That Jedi wore your face.

In my vision, I bowed to you and took a crown from the Emperor's head. It ended when you held his power in your hands."

The Hero of Tython is going to be the next Sith Emperor. 😉

Visions could be very symbolic I guess

visions aren't crystal clear, they're used as guidance. Ergo he probably won't steal vitiate's power. but if he did, oh could I imagine.

Man, if he did.... no amount of Yoda, Luke or Sidious quotes could convince me that the Hero of Tython wouldn't be the more powerful Jedi or Sith in Star Wars.

I'm pretty sure it means his power as Emperor. Scourge hands him Vitiates crown. I wasn't totally joking when I said the JK could become the next Emperor. My concept for a TOR-era novel even uses that scenario (HoT become Empress) as its backstory.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Man, if he did.... no amount of Yoda, Luke or Sidious quotes could convince me that the Hero of Tython wouldn't be the more powerful Jedi or Sith in Star Wars.

I'm pretty sure it means his power as Emperor. Scourge hands him Vitiates crown. I wasn't totally joking when I said the JK could become the next Emperor. My concept for a TOR-era novel even uses that scenario (HoT become Empress) as its backstory.

He resisted Vitiate's dark influence so he wouldn't fall to the dark side after.
Even though if he became the emperor he wouldn't have Vitiate's knowledge of the force since Vitiate spent 1300 years studying the force so it wouldn't mean him becoming the strongest ever.

The vision is very likely to be only symbolic.

Originally posted by Sinious
Maybe more powerful in the force. The son would never be as cunning and manipulative as Vitiate. A mutiny against him by the dark council would finish him.

Originally posted by Sinious
Same with Palpatine. He is incredibly powerful but any dark council would fry his ass. I don't see anyone capable of dominating such a powerful empire full of extremely powerful sith lords like Jadus and Malgus the way Vitiate did. Would you expect a council of 6-7 Vaders bowing down to Palpatine instead of killing him?
His place in EU just shadows every other sith.

Yes, Vitiate's Empire was much more "Sith-oriented" then that of Palpatine's and challenging to rule accordingly as well. The latter preferred to minimize potential threats to his existence like not creating Dark Councils, encourage expansion of Sith and vice versa. Palpatine had his strengths but he certainly was not Vitiate.

Originally posted by Sinious
Also Vitiate would kick both Yoda's and Plagueis' ass in 1on1.
Luke would be a challenge but I don't see any of Luke's abilities overwhelming Vitiate's original body. He wouldn't even have to fight him probably as he would have the chance to turn him to dark side like he did to Revan and Malak.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
A mutiny by the dark council against the son would finish the latter? You must be joking.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, Palpatine with a prepped ritual would also decimate a dark council. Hell, with his skill and power, I can see him beating alot of them all at once in fair combat.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sidious is quite a bit more powerful than Jadus and Malgus bro. He could easily rule Vitiate's empire, in the sense of personal power.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Name one dark council member, sans maybe Nox, who is more powerful than Vader, and prove why.

Virtually unknown Dark Council members have feats that can put them above the likes of Vader. For example, Dark Council members Qalar and Victun ended up destroying the (first) Citadel of Dromund Kaas in a violent kaggath.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
In terms of accomplishments? Nah bro.

Palpatine got the chance to rule over the galaxy but he never overshadowed millions of Sith like Vitiate managed to. Palpatine never took such a risk because he understood his limitations, learned some lessons from the history and minimized potential threats to his existence.

Palpatine kept just one Sith Lord besides himself and even that lone individual continued to conspire against him. Palpatine did not train his other dark side adepts to such a degree that they would eventually realize their potential and challenge his supremacy.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Prove it.

You prove that Yoda and Plagueis can even make a move against Vitiate since the latter is armed with incalculable powers of corruption.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'm wondering if you actually think Revan and Malak at that point are even close to as powerful as Luke.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Dude, the Son is literally a manifestation of the force itself. A dark council can't even begin to comprehend his power, much less combat and defeat him.

Their is no such thing as a manifestation of the Force itself. The Ones were extraordinarily powerful Force-users.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
We're arguing personal, combative ability here right? Anyways, in terms of personal power, yes Vitiate was worshipped as a God among his people, but that was mainly due to his cunning (like leading them on a convoluted journey to Dromund Kaas), and his lack of connection with his empire (he really didnt care too much about it). But yes in terms of combative ability, it's way closer than you seem to think.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

"The Emperor has the ability to dominate and enslave the minds of those who serve him," she explained. "It's one of the reasons he has ruled for so long. Those that are transformed become fanatical zealots who live to serve; they are not capable of betraying him."

Vitiate even kept the monstrosities such as Dread Masters subservient. A lone Dread Master was an extraordinarily powerful being.

Give Vitiate some credit.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He can suck planets with a ritual that required 8000 sith lords participating? Ok. Palpatine is also capable of draining and mind wiping on a planetary scale. Vitiate's never used drain in combat anyway. Plagueis is way above Revan imo.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Tenebrae acquired Planetary-scale or mass destructive abilities?

Tenebrae, after his first transformation, possibly acquired the capability to devastate an entire planet with his Force abilities, should he desire.

"Nathema was just the beginning," Scourge agreed. "He will destroy world after world, his power and madness growing in concert until he alone is left, Emperor over an empty and lifeless galaxy."

Meetra stared at the two in horror.

"You've been to Nathema," Scourge said. "You felt the Void. You know what the Emperor is capable of."

"She understands," Revan said, reading her expression more accurately than Scourge. "That's not it."

"He's quarantined Dromund Kaas," Meetra said, trying to lead them to the same conclusion. "What if he's preparing to do the same thing here that he did on Nathema?"

Scourge hadn't considered that possibility, and it chilled him to his core.

"Is that possible?" he asked. "Nyriss told me the ritual on Nathema took days, if not weeks. And the Emperor had to trick hundreds of other powerful Sith into working with him so he could draw on their power."

"He's stronger now," Revan said. "But even if it's possible, I don't think he'll go that far. At least not yet. He is too patient, too careful. Dromund Kaas is the heart of his Empire and the seat of his power. He has too many valuable resources here to throw it all away." (SWTOR: Revan)

Revan's assessment is supported by another revelation:

REMINDER:

[QUOTE]Lord Vitiate takes command of the Sith Empire, now in shambles following the Great Hyperspace War. He executes the Sith Council and consumes the life force of thousands of Sith Lords in a terrifying ritual that extends his life and vastly increases his capacity as a practitioner of the Force. (SWTORE, Page 16)

Have you not paid attention to revelations in this thread?

Palpatine have not used Force Drain in combat situation either.

---

Also, Plagueis is way above Revan? You've got to be kidding me.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
They were<<<<<<<Prime Luke at that point. Adding to that, they were unprepared, and the Emperor was fully prepared. Luke is too powerful to dominate, as was the HoT.

Also, Vitiate broke the duo with a fraction of his power:

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Over 300 years ago, the great Jedi heroes Revan and Malak stumbled upon long-hidden Sith Empire's capital of Dromund Kaas, and its ruler - a mysterious, almost godlike avatar of the dark side. They argued briefly over whether to alert the Republic and Jedi Council, but Revan was already too consumed by arrogance and anger to consider the possibility of defeat. By the time Revan and Malak approached the Emperor in his throne room, they were already at the precipice of the dark side. It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall. The Jedi succumbed utterly to the Sith leader's domination and returned to the Republic to spark a new conflict: the Jedi Civil War.

Preparation argument is from Revan himself who is likely to be biased about this.

And no, neither HoT and Luke are two powerful to be invincible to telepathic influence of masters of these powers. Vitiate broke HoT once and a Dark Jedi showed that it is possible to break Luke as well.

---

Why do I have to feed information in the mouths of people again and again? Damn.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah I hate the Ones as well. However that doesn't change that they would annihilate any dark council.

It is true that The Son overwhelmed the trio of Obi-Wan, Anakin and Ahsoka but even this trio is not even close to being as potent and dangerous as an entire Dark Council can be with combined might.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Oh of course part of it was due to his power, I was just saying that it shouldn't be what is fully credited. And palpatine does have a very large superiority in the force over anyone in the TOR Empire.

While Palpatine might be superior to any TOR era Force-user in some aspects, he is outclassed in others.

Dread Masters have demonstrated capabilities that even Palpatine haven't. Dread Masters fell because they separated from each other after gaining independence to establish their own dominions and their potential adversaries multiplied from all fronts (Empire and Republic included).

In addition, their are some Dark Council members who qualified for "masters of the Force" accolade and were such formidable warriors that they could rout entire (well-armed) armies by themselves. Palpatine have never demonstrated this level of combative ability on the ground. Yes, during Dark Empire, Palpatine had acquired matching or superior capability, thanks to his command of powers such as Force Storm (Wormhole).

Still, the whole Dark Council is too overwhelming a force to challenge on the ground in conventional sense. To give you an idea, just 2 Jedi managed to undermine Palpatine (at the height of his power) in a direct confrontation. Palpatine's only chance is to summon a Force Storm (Wormhole), if he gets the opportunity. However, summoning a power of this caliber is not as easy and quick as people sometimes mistakenly assume. Palpatine is more likely to end up getting reduced to essence form in this kind of confrontation. And if somebody from the Dark Council knows how to contain an essence like a Jedi named Brand could, best of luck.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Neither really has a knowledge advantage over the other tbh. And even if Vitiate has that advantage, in combat he uses...mind rape, lightning, TK, and duplicates, with mind rape not working on the top tier people? He doesn't use a wide breadth of abilities in combat (like most force users).

In addition, Vitiate did not relied upon a fixed set of powers to overwhelm his opponents. He decided his offensive options in accordance to what he was up against. He have unleashed different powers on different types of opposition.

Furthermore, Vitiate's telepathic powers, while not infallible, are a credible threat to anybody unless an individual have figured out a countermeasure. But this is circumstantial development since nobody have an answer for Vitiate's telepathic powers without experiencing it beforehand.

Vitiate's seemingly lack of effectiveness against HoT inside the Dark Temple, is the result of the setback that he suffered from his interruption from the most ambitious ritual that have ever been attempted. On the contrary, HoT had become immensely powerful and talented warrior at this point. You can do the math.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
2. Well let's see. Plagueis is one of the fastest force users in the mythos, and his speed feats speak for themselves.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He's charred to ash/dust with lightning.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He's atomized armored assassins with TK, while physically weakened to an insane extent.

It remains to be seen what Revan can do with his unique telekinetic attacks to defenseless individuals! Possibly vaporize?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Both of these show his immense raw power, which imo exceeds Revan's.

Revan's utter domination of Nyriss > Plagueis's all but atomization of some defenseless individuals.

Nyriss reduced some defenseless individuals to charred smoking husks with a normal burst of her lightning. You realize what she could do to defenseless individuals with her fully charged attack?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
As a duelist, he's considered a master of the art, which shows me that he can match Revan in this regard. So basically, he's faster, greater raw power, arguably superior mastery, and physically stronger.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
No, his honor guards told him way beforehand, and that's why Vitiate was fully prepped.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
On the contrary, in a fair versus battle, he isn't prepared to such an extent that he would dominate Luke's mind.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Mentioned above.

2. The voice has the full power of the Emperor anyways, so that's irrelevant.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Vitiate's force skills when he was "fighting for his life" weren't a match for the HoT, I don't see how Luke would fare any worse, if not better. Some people argue Vitiate was weakened, some argue he had overcame his weakness, etc.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yes, Luke would be able to dominate Revan the way Vitiate did, especially considering he got knocked on his ass twice. Luke has proven to be as fast as Sidious, who in turn is quite a ways faster than Revan. Of course Vitiate didn't use his lightsaber, he'd be completely screwed if he had to resort to using it.

SW Legend I agree with everything you said. The only weakness that Vitiate shows is his defeat against HoT and that could be explained in many ways. He could very well be weakened by the ritual preparation. Both characters are still not dead so HoT's victory doesn't mean anything right now. There is no other proof of Vitiate being vulnerable to other jedis and siths. He could very well defeat Luke and HoT and certainly more powerful in the force. We don't know if he sucks at saber dueling too. You cannot manipulate the unknown aspects of Vitiate to your perception. His ritual is the most impressive maneuver in the force and it puts him above every force user in the sense of force knowledge.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Black & White comparisons are always misleading.

While Palpatine might be superior to any TOR era Force-user in some aspects, he is outclassed in others.

Dread Masters have demonstrated capabilities that even Palpatine haven't. Dread Masters fell because they separated from each other after gaining independence to establish their own dominions and their potential adversaries multiplied from all fronts (Empire and Republic included).

In addition, their are some Dark Council members who qualified for "masters of the Force" accolade and were such formidable warriors that they could rout entire (well-armed) armies by themselves. Palpatine have never demonstrated this level of combative ability on the ground. Yes, during Dark Empire, Palpatine had acquired matching or superior capability, thanks to his command of powers such as Force Storm (Wormhole).

Still, the whole Dark Council is too overwhelming a force to challenge on the ground in conventional sense. To give you an idea, just 2 Jedi managed to undermine Palpatine (at the height of his power) in a direct confrontation. Palpatine's only chance is to summon a Force Storm (Wormhole), [B]if he gets the opportunity. However, summoning a power of this caliber is not as easy and quick as people sometimes mistakenly assume. Palpatine is more likely to end up getting reduced to essence form in this kind of confrontation. And if somebody from the Dark Council knows how to contain an essence like a Jedi named Brand could, best of luck. [/B]

Yeah, and Vitiate would also be outclassed in others, like shapeshifting and resurrecting (if that's considered canon).

The only dark council member that's routed armies was Marr. And Palpatine has annihilated very large forces of stormtroopers with a single gout of lightning.

Wasn't Leia unlocking Luke's latent potential with battle meditation? And doesn't Brand get help from a krapload of jedi as well to contain Palpatine's essence?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate is likely to possess superior knowledge of dark side talents on the whole; he got close to acquiring omnipotence stage by the time of Great Galactic War but his ultimate ascension was compromised as his adversaries multiplied.

In addition, Vitiate did not relied upon a fixed set of powers to overwhelm his opponents. He decided his offensive options in accordance to what he was up against. He have unleashed different powers on different types of opposition.

Furthermore, Vitiate's telepathic powers, while not infallible, are a credible threat to anybody unless an individual have figured out a countermeasure. But this is circumstantial development since nobody have an answer for Vitiate's telepathic powers without experiencing it beforehand.

Vitiate's seemingly lack of effectiveness against HoT inside the Dark Temple, is the result of the setback that he suffered from his interruption from the most ambitious ritual that have ever been attempted. On the contrary, HoT had become immensely powerful and talented warrior at this point. You can do the math.

1. Yoda has more light side knowledge, and Vitiate has more dark side knowledge. Even if Vitiate had slightly more knowledge, it wouldn't be relevant.

2. Lightning stream and lightning storm, yes. Along with some weird concentrated storm burst.

3. Yes but a powerful enough force user can resist it with no noticeable effort, aka the HoT.

4. Yeah, and the HoT would be weakened in such a powerful dark side nexus.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So could be Revan. It is not possible to handle whole armies without being amazingly fast.

So can Dark Council members and possibly even Revan.

Correction: All but atomized. Also, body armor of those assassins was meh.

It remains to be seen what Revan can do with his unique telekinetic attacks to defenseless individuals! Possibly vaporize?

How so?

Revan's utter domination of Nyriss > Plagueis's all but atomization of some defenseless individuals.

Nyriss reduced some defenseless individuals to charred smoking husks with a normal burst of her lightning. You realize what she could do to defenseless individuals with her fully charged attack?

Covered above.

Proved you wrong above.

Vitiate would easily accomplish this. A powerful Dark Jedi, with decent command of telepathic powers, was able to.

Covered above.

1: when has Revan routed armies solo?

2: Perhaps, but on the annihilation of the maladians thing, you have to take into account that he was on the brink of death itself and still managed to cause such destruction.

3: For now i'm not gonna put Revan's telekenetic abilities on Plagueis's level.

4: Ok yeah that was a really good display of tutaminis, but I doubt Nyriss is anywhere near as powerful as Plagueis.

5. Do u realize what Plagueis could do in a fully healed state with such TK?

6. ok.

7. No. That's just your biased assumption.

8. You're being impartial here. Wasn't that way before Luke's prime?

9. It evens out.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Explained already.

As I said, the Hero would also be weakened while Vitiate is recovering. It evens out.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sheer underestimation of Revan has reached idiocy levels now. Revan have routed whole armies, brought Mandalorians to their knees when he was their enemy, brought both the Republic and the Jedi Order to their knees, when he was their enemy and left such an impact on Vitiate that the latter adopted Abeloth like tactic to increase his safeguard. It is rumored that Revan possessed sufficient power to dominate entire worlds. Respect him.

when has he solo'd an army?

not relevant to personal power

not relevant to personal power

That hardly makes him as powerful as Luke, or even close really

ok. 13 year old vitiate has done this.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ

As I said, the Hero would also be weakened while Vitiate is recovering. It evens out.

Its not the same thing. Vitiate is consuming all a great part of his power and concentration to create the energy for the ritual.

Yes, but he's recovering in the dark temple, and Scourge even says that he'd recover quickly, and Vitiate himself says that the Hero would have dissipated his energy helping Kira.