Sith Emperor (Vitiate) Respect Thread

Started by Sinious10 pages

Sinious Yo Da Best

Im not saying this for sure. Just saying that it is possible that Vitiate wasn't able to use all his power. Its a chance just like everything you're saying is only a chance. There is no way for you to prove that HoT and Vitiate had a full fair fight and HoT is a better warrior than him. Same applies to Luke.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ The Immortal Emperor

1. Which is why I said I won't be conclusive on it.

2. How wouldn't the HoT and Luke be better warriors? First of all, it's specifically noted that Vitiate is a scholar, not a warrior, and the HoT is the greatest warrior in the entire jedi order of his time. The same can be said for Luke.

Sinious Yo Da Best

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Which is why I said I won't be conclusive on it.
2. How wouldn't the HoT and Luke be better warriors? First of all, it's specifically noted that Vitiate is a scholar, not a warrior, and the HoT is the greatest warrior in the entire jedi order of his time. The same can be said for Luke.

He chooses to be a scholar. There is a big difference. After Revan confronts him he decides to remove his original body and use his voices to represent him because he doesn't want to risk his existence at all. His fear of death is so great that he also avoids risking his voices in battles. That is why he never acts as the proud warrior like Malgus. If he had wanted it he would go to Coruscant himself and suck the entire planet up. Same with Alderaan and many other planets his empire invaded. You make it sound like he is incapable being a warrior like HoT or Luke. Its simply not true.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ The Immortal Emperor

lol @ Vitiate breaking through the core, waltzing to Alderaan, and sucking the planet up all by himself. Only Malgus can do that 😛. Whether or not he chose to be a scholar is irrelevant, the HoT and Luke are both more skilled warriors on the whole. Tactically, both are obviously superior (vitiate almost got killed by Meetra and walked onto a lightsaber), and Luke actually has shatterpoint to capitalize on these tactical errors. Vitiate, overall, just doesn't catch me as the warrior type.

Intrepid37 Restricted

Vitiate ****ing sucks for everything he had at his disposal.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, and Vitiate would also be outclassed in others, like shapeshifting and resurrecting (if that's considered canon).

Much of the Vitiate's abilities are unknown at the moment. His story leaves enormous room for exploration of his abilities.

Interestingly, Dread Masters considered (only) him as worthy of their services. Most impressive.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The only dark council member that's routed armies was Marr. And Palpatine has annihilated very large forces of stormtroopers with a single gout of lightning.

Well, its an example of how good Dark Council members can be (Marr is extraordinarily powerful even by mythos standards).

Dark Council members are typically dominating figures on the ground. To give you an idea, Decimus, Nyriss and Thanaton also have impressive battlefield records.

Yes, Palpatine have that feat as well but he doesn't outshines a typical Dark Council member with this example.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Wasn't Leia unlocking Luke's latent potential with battle meditation?

She bolstered Luke with her and her unborn's power; the combined might of 3 Jedi was enough to undermine Palpatine.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
And doesn't Brand get help from a krapload of jedi as well to contain Palpatine's essence?

Palpatine did face some opposition earlier in his physical form (last known clone) which was also compromised by decay and blaster-fire from Han Solo. However, when Palpatine reemerged as essence, Brand stopped Palpatine in this form (by himself) while being heavily injured from previous confrontation with Palpatine in the latter's physical form.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Yoda has more light side knowledge, and Vitiate has more dark side knowledge. Even if Vitiate had slightly more knowledge, it wouldn't be relevant.

This is another black & white reasoning which is misleading. Vitiate have more effective and dangerous offensive options at his disposal.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
2. Lightning stream and lightning storm, yes. Along with some weird concentrated storm burst.

This is what I recall:

First known battle: Telekinetic powers
Against Sith Lord Dramath: Sever Force application; Telepathic powers
Against Dark Council: Mysterious power
Against duo of Revan and Malak: Telepathic powers
Against Revan and T3-M4: Telekinetic powers; Telepathic powers; Sith lightning (normal and augmented)
Against Jedi Strike Team led by Tol Braga: Sith lightning (augmented variant); Force blast; Telepathic powers
Against Hero of Tython: Illusions; Sith lightning (normal); Telekinetic powers

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
3. Yes but a powerful enough force user can resist it with no noticeable effort, aka the HoT.

HoT likely developed some kind of countermeasure against it just like Revan did OR was shielded by Orgus Din (rumored).

Nobody is able to resist Vitiate's telepathic influence without experiencing it beforehand. The select few, who managed to, developed some kind of countermeasure against such influence.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
4. Yeah, and the HoT would be weakened in such a powerful dark side nexus.

HoT had experience with dark side beforehand and may have learned how to effectively cope with dark side nexuses. Revan and Meetra have comparable showings in this respect as well.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1: when has Revan routed armies solo?

Some hints:-

1. Sith commander on Star Forge reported to Malak at one point that Revan have destroyed an army of Star Forge battle droid(s).
2. "As a Jedi, Revan was a warrior who slaughtered armies. As a Sith, Revan was a teacher who trained a thousand dark apprentices." (Dzoun)

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
2: Perhaps, but on the annihilation of the maladians thing, you have to take into account that he was on the brink of death itself and still managed to cause such destruction.

Muun can biologically function even in dire situations, possibly even better then Zabrak.

In addition, Plagueis asserted that powers of Force-users do not diminish even during their vulnerable moments! Possibly his didn't.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
3: For now i'm not gonna put Revan's telekenetic abilities on Plagueis's level.

I wouldn't underestimate Revan's peak telekinetic potency.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
4: Ok yeah that was a really good display of tutaminis, but I doubt Nyriss is anywhere near as powerful as Plagueis.

Nyriss could be better then you imagine her to be. Fact is that her dark powers are just as potent as that of Plagueis.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
5. Do u realize what Plagueis could do in a fully healed state with such TK?

Covered above.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
6. ok.

Good

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
7. No. That's just your biased assumption.

No, genius:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, Vitiate broke the duo with a fraction of his power:
From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
Over 300 years ago, the great Jedi heroes Revan and Malak stumbled upon long-hidden Sith Empire's capital of Dromund Kaas, and its ruler - a mysterious, almost godlike avatar of the dark side. They argued briefly over whether to alert the Republic and Jedi Council, but Revan was already too consumed by arrogance and anger to consider the possibility of defeat. By the time Revan and Malak approached the Emperor in his throne room, they were already at the precipice of the dark side. It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall. The Jedi succumbed utterly to the Sith leader's domination and returned to the Republic to spark a new conflict: the Jedi Civil War.
Preparation argument is from Revan himself who is likely to be biased about this.

Perhaps you should start paying attention to presented arguments at hand. In this manner, you can spare me the effort to give you reminders again and again.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
8. You're being impartial here. Wasn't that way before Luke's prime?

What is Luke's prime? Old age?

Luke had performed his famous blackhole feat earlier prior to this encounter. Do the math.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
9. It evens out.

See above

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
As I said, the Hero would also be weakened while Vitiate is recovering. It evens out.

See above

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
when has he solo'd an army?

See above

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
not relevant to personal power
not relevant to personal power

Revan had been so influential with combination of his personal power and tactical brilliance.

Revan was already the Jedi Order's most powerful champion during the Mandalorian Wars.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
That hardly makes him as powerful as Luke, or even close really

Well, you have no idea. No other Jedi forced Vitiate to increase his safeguard further.

Do you have a habit of underestimating Revan? I think so.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
ok. 13 year old vitiate has done this.

Says a lot about Vitiate's power.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yes, but he's recovering in the dark temple, and Scourge even says that he'd recover quickly, and Vitiate himself says that the Hero would have dissipated his energy helping Kira.

1. Scourge's propaganda to try to prevent HoT from wasting time to save Kira.
2. Looks like Vitiate underestimated HoT.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
HoT likely developed some kind of countermeasure against it just like Revan did OR was shielded by Orgus Din (rumored).
Nobody is able to resist Vitiate's telepathic influence without experiencing it beforehand. The select few, who managed to, developed some kind of countermeasure against such influence.

Its entirely possible, indeed I find it likely, that Scourge taught the Hero the same defense against Vitiates telepathy that Revan developed and taught him in Revan.

“This time I know his tricks and tactics,” Revan assured them. “I can shield my mind from being dominated by his will, and I can show you how to do the same.”

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I wouldn't underestimate Revan's peak telekinetic potency.

I think it is you who underestimates Plagueis' telekinetic potency.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Sinious
He chooses to be a scholar. There is a big difference. After Revan confronts him he decides to remove his original body and use his voices to represent him because he doesn't want to risk his existence at all. His fear of death is so great that he also avoids risking his voices in battles. That is why he never acts as the proud warrior like Malgus. If he had wanted it he would go to Coruscant himself and suck the entire planet up. Same with Alderaan and many other planets his empire invaded. You make it sound like he is incapable being a warrior like HoT or Luke. Its simply not true.

Nicely put.

Though Vitiate does not shy away from confrontation when the time comes. Even in his most vulnerable moment, he took chances against HoT.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
lol @ Vitiate breaking through the core, waltzing to Alderaan, and sucking the planet up all by himself. Only Malgus can do that 😛. Whether or not he chose to be a scholar is irrelevant, the HoT and Luke are both more skilled warriors on the whole. Tactically, both are obviously superior (vitiate almost got killed by Meetra and walked onto a lightsaber), and Luke actually has shatterpoint to capitalize on these tactical errors. Vitiate, overall, just doesn't catch me as the warrior type.

Please stop with your sheer idiocy already.

1. Vitiate had already infiltrated the Republic and the Jedi Order with his personal powerbase. He could pull off Sacking of Coruscant or similar events with his personal powerbase but this would also expose his minions and power reach.

2. OP is correct: Vitiate is a scholar by choice. This have nothing to do with his power and warrior-ship.

3. If Vitiate wanted to, he could wipe out planets one after another but he chose not to because he didn't wanted his followers to learn about his true nature.

Very aptly put by canon sources:

From Star Wars: The Essential Reader's Companion
The Emperor is one thousand years old. In a dark side ritual, he drained the life of his home planet, Nathema, to achieve immortality. The world is now a lifeless husk, devoid of the Force. Scourge comes to understand that such power is madness, and the Emperor has lost all reason.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
"Nathema was just the beginning," Scourge agreed. "He will destroy world after world, his power and madness growing in concert until he alone is left, Emperor over an empty and lifeless galaxy."
Meetra stared at the two in horror.
"You've been to Nathema," Scourge said. "You felt the Void. You know what the Emperor is capable of."
"She understands," Revan said, reading her expression more accurately than Scourge. "That's not it."
"He's quarantined Dromund Kaas," Meetra said, trying to lead them to the same conclusion. "What if he's preparing to do the same thing here that he did on Nathema?"
Scourge hadn't considered that possibility, and it chilled him to his core.
"Is that possible?" he asked. "Nyriss told me the ritual on Nathema took days, if not weeks. And the Emperor had to trick hundreds of other powerful Sith into working with him so he could draw on their power."
"He's stronger now," Revan said. "But even if it's possible, I don't think he'll go that far. At least not yet. He is too patient, too careful. Dromund Kaas is the heart of his Empire and the seat of his power. He has too many valuable resources here to throw it all away."

4. Funny that Vitiate is recognized as a brilliant tactican in canon.

5. Luke have his share of failures and "oh shit moments" as well. Stop painting him as an unstoppable juggernaut. Almost anybody have.

pencilcrayon Senior Member

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
And Palpatine has annihilated very large forces of stormtroopers with a single gout of lightning.
Wasn't Leia unlocking Luke's latent potential with battle meditation? And doesn't Brand get help from a krapload of jedi as well to contain Palpatine's essence?

"... I am being eaten alive by darkness! "

"You think you have won? If I am annihilated, my curse will be upon Skywalker blood forever!"

"Luke... Palpatine will die with me . He will never return."

"The Force... and all the Jedi who went before us... will make sure of that."
-Taken from Rage of the Emperor 2

It took Brand and all those Jedi spirits to contain him.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its entirely possible, indeed I find it likely, that Scourge taught the Hero the same defense against Vitiates telepathy that Revan developed and taught him in Revan.
“This time I know his tricks and tactics,” Revan assured them. “I can shield my mind from being dominated by his will, and I can show you how to do the same.”

Excellent point.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think it is you who underestimate Plagueis' telekinetic potency.

I don't! But I think that his feat is blown out of proportion.

Powerful Force-users can be very destructive with their abilities, should they go all out on defenseless individuals.

Watch Galen vaporizing troops:

YouTube video

Revan does not vaporizes people because this is not in his nature. Plagueis, as a dark sider, have no reason to hold out in contrast.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Vitiate ****ing sucks for everything he had at his disposal.

1. Conquered a planet as a child.
2. Successfully performed the most complex ritual to have ever been attempted.
3. Successfully reconstituted a Sith Empire and made it stronger then ever before, preventing extinction of Sith in the process.
4. Overshadowed and controlled millions of Sith for many centuries.
5. Won many battles.
6. Came very close to eradicating both The Republic and the Jedi Order; orchestrated the first known destruction of the Jedi Order in galactic history.

How exactly he sucks for everything he had at his disposal? He fell due to betrayal much like Palpatine.

Time and again, it have been proven that wars and betrayals eventually lead to ruin.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ The Immortal Emperor

@ SWL

1. yea but for now, from what we know, the Dread Masters have abilities that neither vitiate nor palpatine know.

2. Marr isn't a typical dark council member though. He's second only to Nox.

3. Oh yeah, the combination of 3 of the most powerful jedi (in terms of raw potential) to ever live.

4. Pencilcrayon posted the quote on this matter.

5. and Yoda has incredibly staunch dark side defenses at his.

6. Yeah the normal abilities he uses in combat are telepathy, clones, telekenesis, and multiple forms of lightning.

7. Actually, the SWTOR codex specifically notes that the Hero was too powerful to be telepathically dominated.

8. They'd still be weakened either way. It's actually an argument people use to explain why Meetra performed so poorly in SWTOR:Revan.

9. 1: He had companions with him I believe, and Revan had a pretty l33t crew.
2: Possibly hyperbole? I mean, it goes on to say he trained 1000 apprentices.

10. I doubt he wasn't weakened. The main reason being that he was, you know, almost unconscious.

11. I wouldn't either. However there would need to be further documentation on Revan, for the time being.

12. Nyriss isn't=Plagueis

13. also covered above.

14. No, it's your biased assumption that Revan was being biased

15. Luke's prime is in FotJ. Do you have any quotes about Luke getting telepathically screwed by this "powerful dark jedi"?

16. covered

17. covered

18. covered

19. 1: Defeating mandalorians is impressive, but Kellian Jarro solo'd over 100, and Seros was beating by the Grand Champ in act 1.

20. Vitiate's irrational fear of death was the main reason for him creating the voice most likely. Vitiate also thought the ancient sith spirits like Naga Sadow would be a threat, you know.

21. 13 year old Vitiate would get wrecked by Luke.

22. And you don't think Vitiate would underestimate Luke?

23. Have me stop with the sheer idiocy? 🤨

What sheer idiocy are you talking about? That I dont believe Revan=Yoda and Plagueis, Vitiate>the Son and the Daughter, and that Nyriss =Plagueis? Give me a break.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. yea but for now, from what we know, the Dread Masters have abilities that neither vitiate nor palpatine know.

Palpatine is featured in how many sources?

In comparison, Vitiate is featured in how many sources?

Just because Palpatine doesn't have certain capabilities, doesn't means that you can apply the same logic upon Vitiate.

Keep in mind that Dread Masters had served Vitiate! They wouldn't serve an inferior being.

Stop being so black & white about matters of Star Wars.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
2. Marr isn't a typical dark council member though. He's second only to Nox.

Marr would be superior to typical Dark Council member but the point is that a lone Dark Council member is a force to be reckoned with. Now try to comprehend that how potent a force the whole Dark Council can be.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
3. Oh yeah, the combination of 3 of the most powerful jedi (in terms of raw potential) to ever live.

This is a tall claim. Luke was more gifted Force-user then the other two and none of these Jedi have been confirmed to have unmatched potential in the mythos, if I am not mistaken.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
4. Pencilcrayon posted the quote on this matter.

OP's revelation is about final confrontation of Jedi with Palpatine. This particular point of mine is about previous confrontation.

Still, Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force reveals that Brand deserves the credit to vanquish Sidious's essence.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
5. and Yoda has incredibly staunch dark side defenses at his.

Yoda is unlikely to have an answer for everything that can be thrown at him. Sith Sorcery cannot be tackled though conventional means due to its unconventional nature. Yoda is an expert on the matters of light side, not dark side.

Revan also possessed extraordinary defensive/healing capabilities! Still got overwhelmed.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
6. Yeah the normal abilities he uses in combat are telepathy, clones, telekenesis, and multiple forms of lightning.

Point is that Vitiate is not restrictive in use of his talents; he will decide his course of action in accordance with the nature of the opposition and circumstances.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
7. Actually, the SWTOR codex specifically notes that the Hero was too powerful to be telepathically dominated.

Show me this codex entry.

One codex entry reveals that Vitiate can telepathically influence even strongest of the Jedi.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
8. They'd still be weakened either way. It's actually an argument people use to explain why Meetra performed so poorly in SWTOR:Revan.

Nothing in the book indicates that Meetra was weakened on Dromund Kaas. She had performed really well on Malachor V earlier, remember?

Meetra felt significantly weak on Nathema however; nearly lost her powers in this world.

Point is that paragons of the Vitiate's Sith Empire were/are too powerful in comparison to majority of the Force-users in the mythos.

Some fans have a hard time digesting this revelation and rely on fanon to support their POV.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
9. 1: He had companions with him I believe, and Revan had a pretty l33t crew.
2: Possibly hyperbole? I mean, it goes on to say he trained 1000 apprentices.

1. Revan's companions may have participated in their own ways; Star Forge was an enormous place.
2. This is the latest revelation. Older revelation is that Revan converted many to dark side so new revelation is based on it.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
10. I doubt he wasn't weakened. The main reason being that he was, you know, almost unconscious.

Key point is that he is not human and does not have similar weaknesses.

Analogy: I recall that UnuThul lost an arm during his confrontation with Luke but could still fight effectively. Reason is that UnuThul was not an human and did not had similar weaknesses.

Plagueis himself asserted that powers do not diminish with wounds.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
11. I wouldn't either. However there would need to be further documentation on Revan, for the time being.

I always welcome expansion of content related to Revan. 🙂

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
12. Nyriss isn't=Plagueis

This is not an argument.

Point is that Nyriss can be equally destructive with her dark side abilities.

Plagueis is unlikely to all but atomize another powerful Force-user. Get my drift?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
13. also covered above.

Ok, tell me what Plagueis could do in his fully healed condition?

Did he vaporize his Master? Did he vaporize Venamis?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
14. No, it's your biased assumption that Revan was being biased

Excuse me?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
15. Luke's prime is in FotJ. Do you have any quotes about Luke getting telepathically screwed by this "powerful dark jedi"?

Where it has been stated that Luke's prime is FOTJ? Their is more evidence of Luke being at the height of his power during Vong invasion.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
16. covered
17. covered
18. covered

You have covered nothing.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
19. 1: Defeating mandalorians is impressive, but Kellian Jarro solo'd over 100, and Seros was beating by the Grand Champ in act 1.

Your point is?

Revan in stronger then both.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
20. Vitiate's irrational fear of death was the main reason for him creating the voice most likely. Vitiate also thought the ancient sith spirits like Naga Sadow would be a threat, you know.

Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia reveals that Vitiate further expanded his powerbase due to actions of Revan.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
21. 13 year old Vitiate would get wrecked by Luke.

Even as a mortal, Vitiate was "supremely strong in the dark side" (among the strongest Sith Lords in history). He punk(ed) Sith (Lords) as a child; even defeated some dark side prodigies (according to Nyriss) before securing his throne on Medriaas. Heck, even Marka Ragnos noted Vitiate as an "incredibly powerful" dark side practitioner and accepted the demands of the latter without conditions.

Luke could be stronger then this incarnation of Vitiate but not by such a margin that he would be able to "wreak" the latter; Vitiate would give Luke a fight of his life even as a mortal.

As Sith Emperor, Vitiate would destroy Luke.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
22. And you don't think Vitiate would underestimate Luke?

No. He doesn't underestimates newcomers.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
23. Have me stop with the sheer idiocy? 🤨
What sheer idiocy are you talking about? That I dont believe Revan=Yoda and Plagueis, Vitiate>the Son and the Daughter, and that Nyriss =Plagueis? Give me a break. [/B]

The sheer idiocy of ignoring canon revelations and overreaching with your assumptions too much.

Your assumptions are not necessarily correct. I do not think that mine are always correct either but I base my assertions upon canon information and not blindly speculate like you continue to do.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ The Immortal Emperor

1. The same can be said vice versa, i.e. just because vitiate hasn't used an ability, that same logic can't be applied to palpatine. So basically im not going to say Vitiate or Palpatine can utilize those abilities. Have knowledge of them? Possibly.

2. Yes but he had preparation to undermine said dark council.

3. In terms of raw potential? Vader mistook Leia for Luke at one point.

4. k

5. Yoda probably has knowledge of the dark side (which would help him defend against it), and Vitiate probably has knowledge of the light side.

6. understood.

7. "Once again you find yourself face to face with the Emperor, the monster that seeks to destroy all life in the galaxy. This time, however, you have no intention of allowing his will to dominate your mind."

"Realizing you are too powerful to be dominated by his twisted will, the Emperor has resorted to more conventional means to destroy you." So yes a force user powerful enough can resist it without noticeable difficulty.

8. Perhaps. But that's outside of the dark temple, one of the strongest nexuses ever.

9. understood on both points.

10. Alright, I can understand that. However, getting your arm cut off is far less severe than what was happening with Plagueis.

11. 👆

12. Well, first of all, Plagueis is way faster than Nyriss. He's moved so fast as to seem like a streak of lightning, and a droid that detects blaster bolts couldn't detect him. Also note that speed and power have a close correlation. Plus Plagueis also has canon hype of being the most powerful sith ever up till his time.

13. Well actually he was capable of beating Darth Venamis (another apprentice of Darth Tenebrous) in lightsaber combat (relatively easily?), despite the large advantage that Venamis had. In this fight he'd moved fast enough to seem like a thunderbolt. I believe he also turned something/someone to dust with force lightning.

14. Meaning when you said Revan was biased about Vitiate being prepped.

15. Force users can continue to grow more powerful even into older ages. Look at Darth Malgus and Darth Tyranus. And even if not, he'd still increased his force mastery/experience. You still haven't given me proof about Luke being telepathically dominated.

16-18: Yes I did. But whatever

19. I'm saying that beating mandalorians doesn't put him close to Luke or Yoda level at all.

20. k

21. Wait, so now Vitiate would "destroy" Luke? Are you serious?

22. covered on 7.

23. I'm not ignoring canon. I just don't see what puts Revan on Yoda and Luke level. How exactly am I, "blindly speculating?"

The_Tempest Senior Member

Thanks for the codex entry, X.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ The Immortal Emperor

yup.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

That isn't a codex entry.

**** you anyway Supreme. >:[

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ The Immortal Emperor

Originally posted by Nephthys
**** you anyway Supreme. >:[

y? Cuz i'm not supporting Vitiate? Need i use the first actual pic i posted against you?

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Did someone blab to you about that quote? I knew I shouldn't have spread it around.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ The Immortal Emperor

No. I was actually looking for info to hype vitiate, lol. Also I was looking for info on the Dread Masters, which was very successful. Those codexes can be useful as ****.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. The same can be said vice versa, i.e. just because vitiate hasn't used an ability, that same logic can't be applied to palpatine. So basically im not going to say Vitiate or Palpatine can utilize those abilities. Have knowledge of them? Possibly.

Let us get back to the original point: It is not necessary for Palpatine to match his predecessors in every possible manner.

Willing to accept?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
2. Yes but he had preparation to undermine said dark council.

I do not deny the "possibility" of preparation in this particular case but I wouldn't use this argument to ignore this feat for versus threads. Reason is that Vitiate killed 8 Dark Council members in another purge later on. These feats represent greatest display of power in the mythos in combative situation.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
3. In terms of raw potential? Vader mistook Leia for Luke at one point.

Interesting.

Even if we assume that both Luke and Leia possessed twice the potential of a (typical) Dark Council member which is really stretching it (but whatever); we get a maximum potential of 5 - 6 individuals for 2 Skywalkers and 1 Solo with this assumption.

Dark Council comprised of 12 individuals (Members varied in strength and capabilities). I rest my case.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
4. k

Thanks

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
5. Yoda probably has knowledge of the dark side (which would help him defend against it), and Vitiate probably has knowledge of the light side.

Revan had remarkable knowledge of the dark side. His defensive abilities are nothing short of amazing (extraordinary) but he stood no chance against Vitiate.

More importantly, Sith Sorcery based attacks are unconventional and virtually impossible to overcome without command of Sith Sorcery itself.

Here is another analogy: Zannah versus Bane (Zannah won)

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
6. understood.

Thanks.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
7. "Once again you find yourself face to face with the Emperor, the monster that seeks to destroy all life in the galaxy. This time, however, you have no intention of allowing his will to dominate your mind."
"Realizing you are too powerful to be dominated by his twisted will, the Emperor has resorted to more conventional means to destroy you." So yes a force user powerful enough can resist it without noticeable difficulty.

Errr...

Do you have a link?

Here is authenticated revelation by the way:

You've learned that the Emperor is on Dromund Kaas, temporarily weakened by your efforts thwarting his plan for galactic annihilation. Striking at him now is your best chance to defeat him once and for all.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
8. Perhaps. But that's outside of the dark temple, one of the strongest nexuses ever.

I overlook Nathema related development because it was a void in the Force.

However, fact is that Meetra could cope very well with powerful dark side nexuses as apparent from her performance in Malachor V.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
9. understood on both points.

Thanks.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
10. Alright, I can understand that. However, getting your arm cut off is far less severe than what was happening with Plagueis.

Well, loss of arm is crippling injury.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
11. 👆

Fans should motivate Bioware to do something in this regard?

I personally want to see Revan's performance on Star Forge.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
12. Well, first of all, Plagueis is way faster than Nyriss. He's moved so fast as to seem like a streak of lightning, and a droid that detects blaster bolts couldn't detect him. Also note that speed and power have a close correlation. Plus Plagueis also has canon hype of being the most powerful sith ever up till his time.

1. This is unrealistic assessment. Scourge have been stated to be "supernaturally" and "blindingly" fast in Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan. In one fight, Scourge outmaneuvered automated firepower of a special gun mounted on a speeder (in flight). In another fight, Scourge outmaneuvered even a lightsaber strike aimed for him with his physical capabilities. This guy have one of the most impressive combat records in the mythos and he cannot be a turtle in comparison to likes of Plagueis and neither would be Meetra.

Lightning fast is not an argument. Talented Force-users can have lightning fast reflexes/reaction-rate (mentioned in both Star Wars: Plagueis and Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan). Speed feats are most often insufficient indicators of supposed superiority of a character in question in a versus debate unless possible to quantify.

Look at the case of Vitiate: He doesn't have much speed related hype to his name but he would be fast enough to keep up with Force-user of any caliber in the mythos; his combat record proves this.

In the nutshell, Nyriss is also remarkably fast in comparison to norm.

2. That is not an "in-lore" accolade. That is more representative of the author's personal opinion (some books have this accolade printed on their back and some not) who also believes that Plagueis can undermine Sidious. In-fact, the novel does not denies the possibility of Plagueis having an equal in the history either (this is actual "in-lore" assumption). So I don't take that accolade seriously. It doesn't makes any sense either.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
13. Well actually he was capable of beating Darth Venamis (another apprentice of Darth Tenebrous) in lightsaber combat (relatively easily?), despite the large advantage that Venamis had. In this fight he'd moved fast enough to seem like a thunderbolt. I believe he also turned something/someone to dust with force lightning.

Point is about "all but atomizing." It is apparent from my argument that Plagueis, in his prime condition, cannot "all but atomize" another powerful Force-user with his powers, he can hope to cut one down with his superior skills if he have some advantage. His feat against some assassins is not an indication of his superiority over Revan in the context of raw power.

Revan have greater showing of raw power then most in the mythos with his Nyriss dismissing feat.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
14. Meaning when you said Revan was biased about Vitiate being prepped.

In this matter, we have two revelations:

1. Neutral
2. Revan's POV

Neutral revelation is that Vitiate broke the duo of Revan and Malak with fraction of his power.

Which would you pick?

Don't get me wrong, Revan is known to be very accurate about his assessments but he is not infallible either. And he can be as much biased as anybody else can be about certain things.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
15. Force users can continue to grow more powerful even into older ages. Look at Darth Malgus and Darth Tyranus. And even if not, he'd still increased his force mastery/experience. You still haven't given me proof about Luke being telepathically dominated.

Darth Tyranus eventually began to show signs of aging during The Clone Wars. Dark side practices are known to accelerate aging process.

Your point is nicely put but I am not sure how much Luke supposedly improved during FOTJ. His greatest feats are in NJO period.

Luke ended up telepathically dominated by Lord Nyax (during NJO period) but his companions managed to assist him from breaking free Nyax's telepathic influence with their combined might and shared bond.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
16-18: Yes I did. But whatever

See above.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
19. I'm saying that beating mandalorians doesn't put him close to Luke or Yoda level at all.

Holistically, he is among the "elites" of the mythos.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
20. k

Thanks

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
21. Wait, so now Vitiate would "destroy" Luke? Are you serious?

After some fight.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
22. covered on 7.

Ahem

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
23. I'm not ignoring canon. I just don't see what puts Revan on Yoda and Luke level. How exactly am I, "blindly speculating?"

Revan possessed the capability to handle armies and dominate worlds. Like Luke and Yoda, he have considerable canon hype as well and one of the greatest showings of raw power in the mythos. In-fact, he acquired extraordinary mastery of the Force by all accounts. He was an absolute game-changer.

Yoda, for all his hype and power, falls short in accomplishment(s) department unfortunately but we still give him the benefit of doubt because of his performance against Sidious. So why underestimate Revan?