Zoom Vs Superboy Prime

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I see you lied once again Galan.

The argument IS boring, though. Wasn't lying about that.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
But that's exactly what you're (or at least others have) arguing

You're not just putting words in my mouth, but ENTIRE ARGUMENTS. Crikey. Can't say anyone else has ever fabricated entire arguments on my behalf before. 👆

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
WW has done this to Superman with a punch and a slam?
http://i39.tinypic.com/1zcq2o2.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/35ml0mu.jpg

Scan me bra!

And appeared to cause some sort of damage with 2 strikes here:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17067804/3.jpg.html

Do I really need to post a bunch of Dianna and Flash's fights for you to realize that Zoom suffering a bloody mouth from their strikes isn't a low showing by any means?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And... are you implying Zoom is anywhere near Superman's durability?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
But anyway, Johns also wrote this:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/12dam.jpg

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/15dam.jpg

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/19dam.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/20dam.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m610/sonnendawg/21dam.jpg

In that case, what do you think about Wonder Girl fighting evenly with Prime for an extended period of time?:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17068079/5.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17068080/6.jpg.html

10 pages later, and she's still trucking right along:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17068080/6.jpg.html
Note that Connor popped in and cracked Prime's mouth open with one hit in the above scan.

...Shouldn't be a surprise, though. Connor's always been able to rock Prime:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17068101/10.jpg.html

Oh, and Johns also wrote Bart single-handedly overpowering Prime(albeit momentarily) and punching the bejesus out of him:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17068082/8.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17068083/9.jpg.html

And again here:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17068078/4.jpg.html

Logic, right? duryes

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Because Wally's speed alone wasn't enough to take out Prime.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And this was the same Wally who took on Prime with Bart and Jay, and a bunch of other Flashes.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
In what world is 100 thousand miles a second near light speed?
And in what world is shrugging off a push when you're only going slightly slower supposed to be a good feat?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And since this is the only part where you address speed... here is Bizarro grabbing Zoom after barely losing a race to him:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2ci7bpl.png

Zoom is utterly unhittable

The low-balling truly is astounding. Good job grasping at straws this extensively. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
She forced Supes to enter a berserker rage state that he would never enter without said manipulation:

^^That Supes=/=standard Supes. Unarguable.

And WW #219 was obviously released after Dianna/Zoom's battle in WW #214, thus is entirely irrelevant to Dianna's comment regarding Zoom's punching power.

That was written by the same writer and it was only two issues later.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Both As you can see, I have a very childish imagination

Fixed 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
I had to comment on the fact that you were putting words in my mouth, though. I just hadta!

Penis stuff

Because you literally can not back up your stance. I'm not sure boring is the right term to use though, as opposed to an utter inability to actually address things. For example, and I knew you'd do this as soon as you answered and answered nothing, you are currently trying to debate the topic while trying to move me away from everything I said previously. I am definitely going to stop remembering the complete failure to back up Zoom's stopping power just because you are continuing to argue about it, yet you won't actually address it anymore.
I am going to fail to remember Zoom getting tagged because you've dropped the point.

Unless you aren't actually trying to move me away from points. In that case, you are arguing just to argue. Miniscule points being argued equal a miniscule victory for you, is that it?

And all these lies on your behalf aren't helping either.

Because that's what it would have led to if I wouldn't have discussed the possibilities. Maybe next time I'll let you finish before intervening.
However, I'm discussing it because this is common practice in Zoom fans. I've seen it a hundred times before.
In fact, I think you're actually the originator of that myth:

Originally posted by Galan007
Well, if Zoom repeatedly hits Superman at least as hard as he was hitting Dianna, then it's definitely going to leave a mark.

Originally posted by shokosugi
Superman is way more durable than Wonder Woman. He can easily withstand a few blows from Zoom.

Originally posted by Galan007
A few? Sure. How about thousands? Millions?

But next time I'll be sure to ask before I make it impossible for you to make the claims. I'll be sure not to cut off where I'm sure the argument is headed. Next time I'll let you say Zoom hits a billion Superman punches before I disprove that. 🙂

And that's blood and damage. It's a lot I admit. But it's not Zoom being barely awake after a punch and a slam. Superman was hurt, Zoom was losing consciousness.

And do I need to requote a bunch of quotes where I'm saying that it was him being almost knocked out that that's what I'm looking at? Goodness, your reading comprehension is off the charts. I don't care about Zoom bleeding. I care about Zoom looking like he's completely out of it.

And again, like the post you quoted and ignored, I'm not saying his jaw is glass to someone like Spider-Man. I'm saying his jaw is glass to someone like Superman landing a good one. Someone like Superman Prime especially.

I see you actually choose to answer low balling as opposed to real questions.
"Hey Galan, what backs up Zoom stopping Prime? And why should we rule out everytime Zoom gets hit?"
"Uh uh uh... let me dance around that bro!"

"Hey Galan, here's some low feats of Zoom."
"Holy shit, this is unacceptable, I must answer this with more low feats!"

Maybe if I would have given an absolutely shitty argument with as many words you would have answered everything, as opposed to this current display of arguing just to argue.

And you are quick to cry PIS on almost every "Low feat". You are quick to bring up self admitted low feats in your favor, and you are quick to repeat a feat you yourself have admitted was pis. Hell, you've repeatedly stated shit about Superboy. But as soon as you find a feat that you don't misinterpret, you cry foul and go back to your admitted lowballing ways.
But anyway:
And the TT one is a blatant low feat. Like the only one where he legitimately gets put down. Too bad it's not relevant to pillow fists Zoom though.

You are now using the only real time Prime has been put down as proof. And Prime's easily defeated Wonder Girl like 3 or 4 times before that. It can easily be explained as him being more drained than normal.
But I've said one feat of Prime's was low. You on the other hand, have called even feats you yourself brought up low feats. You have tried to damage control almost every feat you and I have posted with the title of "low balling".
Zoom blitzes Superman, but I point out him getting touched by things under Prime (and failing to do any damage to Batman and Superman)? Low balling. Zoom beats up blind Wonder Woman, fails to KO her, and gets tagged? Low balling. Zoom gets tagged by Kal-L? Low balling. The only thing you apparently want to use for Zoom's speed is his first appearance... even though you've posted so many scans for Zoom (apparently we can't point out faults in those scans though). And I've pointed out his speed looking back on it not being all that. So what are we allowed to use Galan? What am I - someone arguing for Prime - supposed to use for proving Zoom is capable of being hit? Not your scans apparently. Not my scans where Wally on his own is almost just as fast and Prime reacts to Wally. And not actual low balling?
I'll get to this later though at the end of my post.

If you want to try and post low feats, you shouldn't be so insecure about your own fanboy love affair.

I have no qualms about Superboy doing that, as I've stated many times. Superboy hits way harder than Zoom.

Bart punching Prime to no real effect isn't a low feat.

Looks like you purposefully left a scan out there:
http://i39.tinypic.com/ay1yty.png

And I've brought these scene up many times anyway. The Speed Force itself was getting amped. Bart was faster than he's ever been before. Which should include when he's beat Zoom.

But here's what happens when Prime reacts:
http://i43.tinypic.com/34euukz.jpg

The Flashes don't appear for the rest of the issue, when even Robin is able to follow the battle.

Also, I find your damage control funny considering none of those feats even back up Zoom beating Prime. On the other hand, you're replying to a set of scans where Damage beat Zoom, and Zoom gets knocked out by a pipe getting thrown at him.
Because you know, that totally couldn't flow into Prime hitting Zoom. What do your scans flow into Galan?

Correction: Dropping him in the speed force is the only way they could take out Prime. So in other words, Wally wasn't enough to take out Prime.
Welcome to the same spot you arrived at Galan. 🙂

Because it took them all to take out Prime. When one Wally is enough to almost be as fast as Zoom.

Jokingly playing it off doesn't make you close to being right. Zoom was going like half of lightspeed in that scene when he was building up speed.

He should have seen Bizarro coming at him. He should have not almost lost a race with Bizarro, and it looks like it hurt him. He obviously didn't like it.

Anyway, to continue an earlier point, based on scans posted so far between you and me, Zoom has been hit or grabbed by (ignoring what happens in-between scans because you definitely left out scenes where he got hit in the very next scan):
He got hit by Wonder Woman. He got grabbed by her lasso (and punched). Your scans
He got punched by Kal-L. Your scans
He got chained up by GL Hal, and grabbed by WW's lasso (though he escaped both). Your scans
He got pushed at 100 thousand mps and hit by Flash who was almost keeping up with him at a lower speed. My scans
He got beat by Damage, locked in a headlock, and then knocked out by a pipe being thrown at him by Liberty Belle. My scans
He almost lost a race to Bizarro and got grabbed by Bizarro without being able to stop him. My scans

Add that up, and that's 8 times he was tagged by beings lower than Prime's speed level while he was actively moving (no telling how the Damage fight went, but considering there was you know, damage, it would have been more than one hit). And once by a Flash traveling at a questionable speed level. And that's not even actually trying to find scans of him being hit. That's just general conversation. I also previously stated he hit Power Girl a million times without damage, and in that scan Power Girl is grabbing his throat... but alas, no scan was posted.

Yet, with all this being said, you still maintain Zoom being utterly unhittable to Prime I take it?

Because that would definitely be lowballing if I thought Prime could hit Zoom after all this...

Now, I wonder if I should do that with all the scans posted who Zoom failed to knock out in this thread? Nah... that'd be lowballing too!

How does Zoom lose with such a sterling silver record?

Originally posted by abhilegend
He wasn't amped in any way or form. Its all his own strength.

That was written by the same writer and it was only two issues later.

Yes, Rucka wrote both issues. However, Dianna said that Zoom's punches hurt more than Superman's before she fought him [again] in issue #219-- therefore the latter fight would have no bearing whatsoever on her comment regarding Zoom 5(not 2) issues prior.

@ bran:
Had another wall-o-text typed up for ya, then my laptop gave me the "your computer browser encountered an unknown error" message and shut down on me... So basically, I'm not going to retype that entire thing. Anywho, the post really wasn't much different than the ones before it: you're putting words in my mouth, low-balling Zoom's feats, acting like his slew of high-end feats don't matter, yadda yadda yadda.

I've ceased caring, though. You think Prime wins, I think Zoom wins. Obviously no one is changing their mind at this point, so the argument(s) are completely moot. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
[B]He was in a berserker mindset that he would never enter without said manipulation. That isn't the level he normally operates at-- don't try acting like it is. I can get a mod ruling if you'd like? 🙂

Yes, Rucka wrote both issues. However, Dianna said that Zoom's punches hurt more than Superman's before she fought him [again] in issue #219-- therefore the latter fight would have no bearing whatsoever on her comment regarding Zoom 5(not 2) issues prior.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Don't change the subject. Superman wasn't "doomsday enhanced" as you put it. He was berserker but he's not hulk. It was still harder than anything Zoom punched Wonder Woman with.

Mod ruling, then? 🙂

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, I mistook the issue number as 217. Makes no difference. She said Zoom's punches hurt more than Superman's which was later contradicted by the same writer.

I think the arguments here are quite clear to me...

Zoom for all his narration about him having superman level punches.. hasn't really displayed that kinda of stopping power as Bran is alluding to. You don't see his appearance and go... damn he just put down Herald lvler ______ so easily.. They just don't exist in quanity at all and we're talking about people less than prime who aren't on his resume. Zoom can and does get hit and if Prime hits him.. it will be over.

That said, and on the filp side... DC has gone explictly out of their way to make it clear Prime doesn't like fighting speedsters and has trouble with them. It doesn't make sense reallly, but they have made this point crystal clear. So Zoom being a speedster means you'd almost, by default, what to say Zoom would win.. or at the very least... make Prime flee after a brief confrontation.

Hard to say whihc paragraph is more likely to happen in a comic... my opinion is.. that in a comic zoom probably gets the better of the fight but can't put prime down.. and himself decides to leave after getting tagged once and not wanting to feel that again.

Originally posted by Galan007
They were Doomsday enhancements. They made Superman berserker and operate much differently than he normally would. That wasn't standard Superman, no matter how much you want it to be.

Mod ruling, then? 🙂

a.) It still has no bearing on what Dianna said in an earlier issue.
b.) Even if it did, how exactly does it contradict anything?

1. Of course it has, it contradicts her statement.

2. The myth that Zoom punches harder than superman gets busted.

Originally posted by abhilegend
They were not any enhancements, they were just the physical form of his rage and grief. Superman was berserker but its no different than a mindcontrol berserker rage. You can go to mods if you want though. I've no problem with acknowledging that it wasn't standard superman as long as you admit his strength wasn't amped.

1. Of course it has, it contradicts her statement.

2. The myth that Zoom punches harder than superman gets busted.

Why? Because a sunamped Superman punched her hard enough to make her nose/mouth bleed a trickle? Just a little FYI: sunamped Superman=/=standard Superman. Should I post scans of what a sunamped Supes was able to do to Darkseid? 🙂

Zoom wins

Originally posted by Galan007
He was in a berserker mindset that he would never enter without said manipulation. That isn't the level he normally operates at-- don't try acting like it is. I can get a mod ruling if you'd like? 🙂

Yes, Rucka wrote both issues. However, Dianna said that Zoom's punches hurt more than Superman's before she fought him [again] in issue #219-- therefore the latter fight would have no bearing whatsoever on her comment regarding Zoom 5(not 2) issues prior.

@ bran:
Had another wall-o-text typed up for ya, then my laptop gave me the "your computer browser encountered an unknown error" message and shut down on me... So basically, I'm not going to retype that entire thing. Anywho, the post really wasn't much different than the ones before it: you're putting words in my mouth, low-balling Zoom's feats, acting like his slew of high-end feats don't matter, yadda yadda yadda.

I've ceased caring, though. You think Prime wins, I think Zoom wins. Obviously no one is changing their mind at this point, so the argument(s) are completely moot. /shrug

Prime, easily.

Prime because he made anti-monitor his ***** randomly.... zoom never will have a feat to compare to that ever.

Originally posted by Decimus
Prime because he made anti-monitor his ***** randomly.... zoom never will have a feat to compare to that ever.

I guess Bran makes a fine case. Scemantics aside, the fact that Zoom dosn't casually stomped herald levelers in his average apearances couppled with the fact that he can and will be hit by Prime makes it a win for Superboy

Originally posted by quanchi112
Am was greatly weakened so don't blow it out of proportion.

Originally posted by Galan007
I never said his strength was increased. I said he was berserker and operating much differently than he would without said mental tampering.

Why? Because a sunamped Superman punched her hard enough to make her nose/mouth bleed a trickle? Just a little FYI: sunamped Superman=/=standard Superman. Should I post scans of what a sunamped Supes was able to do to Darkseid? 🙂

Originally posted by Decimus
Since the antimatter he is composed of is weaker by would u say a few standard deviations lol. Come on zoom and flash could beat superman but they have met someone with a plot device more powerful than the ones they possess -pre-crisis force 😉

Originally posted by abhilegend
He was berserker, that's it. Good for you to acknowledge he wasn't amped.

There you go again. Superman wasn't said to be sunamped anywhere, in fact Diana was waving kryptonite in his face when he punched her. When he actually gets sunamped people notice it, wonder woman never once noticed he was sun amped in that fight. He also knocked her out which Zoom failed to do.