Hero of Tython vs NJO Luke Skywalker

Lack of content doesn't implies lack of capability, specially for an individual with the hype and accomplishments like that of HoT: This Jedi Master represented a "prophesized champion of light" which is next to hype of the chosen one in the mythos. It is logical that this Jedi is TOP TIER material like Luke.

"One of the strongest padawans the Jedi have seen in generations. - SWTORE pg. 92

”Your former Masters praise your combat skills. They say you're becoming an expert duelist."

”You held off all these attackers by yourself with only a practice saber? Impressive.”

“The Force is strong in you. Stronger than I've seen in decades.”

“You are stronger than any Jedi I have known”

“Theres nothing else I can teach you.”

“I sense your power. Now I understand why Tarnis was no match for you..... Such skill. So much power. Impressive.”

"You are strong and touched by darkness. That is unexpected. An advantage? Possibly.”

“You are the Jedi's finest.”

“You are our greatest warrior… and our best hope."

"You harness immense power."

"I-felt someone very powerful in the Force," she said, her voice slightly shaky and laced with an uncertainty that Vestara had never heard from her. It made her stomach clench. "Strong in the power of the light side." A Jedi...a great Master."

" A short time ago, many of us felt a very strong rippling in the Force. We sensed a presence that we immediately realized would be a threat to us."

”The Hero of Tython. Your martial skills are legendary.”

“You are our greatest asset.”

Yeah right! Luke is invincible, I forgot. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Both Luke and HoT have extraordinary accomplishments under their belt. Both became masters of the Force and acquired extraordinary dueling skills. HoT's dueling skills were so elite that he attained "legendary" status even in the Sith Empire in this regard.

My stand on this matter is that while HoT is not as richly explored in comparison, he still (holistically) competes with Luke on the basis of whatever is known about him. Therefore, my assessment of this contest is 50/50 which is logical.

Anything else?

And secondly, unless you can prove with evidence they are equal, it's honestly all opinion. Luke is getting similar accolades the Hero as even before ROTJ, imagine his strength beyond that. Wait-don't imagine, because we already know, and it's immense!

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Seen in generations...they don't even give him the benefit of the doubt and say centuries. lol.

Becoming a expert duelist? They don't even give him the full title. And Scourge was a expert duelist, yet he got pretty owned by Nyriss.

This doesn't put him above average Jedi Knight level.

Only decades? :/

Wow! An impressive accolade. Finally! However Luke has alot better ones then this...

Not even an accolade.

All of these accolades are from the first planet (out of twelve). This is literally right at the start of the game, when the Hero is still a padawan. I included them as they are indicative of how good the Hero is, even are a neophyte.

Like for instance, saying the Knight is the strongest he's seen in generations while standing in the same room as Satele Shan is impressive considering the Knight is still a padawan at this point. Just so for being called the strongest Morr had ever felt. Its impressive because the Hero was still being called this as a padawan right at the start of her career. The Hero was an expert duelist as a padawan. The Hero defeated a Sith + 3 Flesh Raiders armed only with a training saber as a padawan. Orgus Din, a Jedi Council member, states that he has nothing left to teach the Hero almost literally as soon as he meets her. Thats pretty impressive.

Originally posted by Petrus
I get what you're saying, but can they truly be compared? I'm not going as far as suggesting HoT would be as powerful as full-potential Anakin with access to that knowledge, but I dare say he'd challenge Yoda and Sidious.

I don't know why HoT, who effectively battled a Force titan unlike anything we've ever seen, should be considered to not be a peer of Anakin. If anything, HoT's record is far better than Anakin's, and both were likely about the same age at their measurable peaks.

Sometimes the Chosen One theory is used to make Anakin "I've never done anything approaching Nihilus or Vitiate or even Yoda" on this whole other playing field that no one could ascend to, and in an EU context just sounds odd.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I don't know why HoT, who effectively battled a Force titan unlike anything we've ever seen, should be considered to not be a peer of Anakin. If anything, HoT's record is far better than Anakin's, and both were likely about the same age at their measurable peaks.

Sometimes the Chosen One theory is used to make Anakin "I've never done anything approaching Nihilus or Vitiate or even Yoda" on this whole other playing field that no one could ascend to, and in an EU context just sounds odd.

It does sound odd, but it's the movies. EU and the movies can't really be compared in some aspects, and people tend to believe the characters from the movies are the 'best' and 'most powerful' due to bias and the quote from GL saying it's 'the golden age of the Jedi', but other than those I see no reason why characters from other eras wouldn't be comparable in terms of power and skill with characters from the PT and OT. The only reason I rank Sidious so highly is because it's actually demonstrated with feats and accolades, not because he appears in the movies. And I do rank the HoT very highly. After some thought, I decided to put him Yoda level in my book.

Originally posted by Petrus
It does sound odd, but it's the movies. EU and the movies can't really be compared in some aspects, and people tend to believe the characters from the movies are the 'best' and 'most powerful' due to bias and the quote from GL saying it's 'the golden age of the Jedi', but other than those I see no reason why characters from other eras wouldn't be comparable in terms of power and skill with characters from the PT and OT. The only reason I rank Sidious so highly is because it's actually demonstrated with feats and accolades, not because he appears in the movies. And I do rank the HoT very highly. After some thought, I decided to put him Yoda level in my book.

It's not the that movie characters are unworthy of respect or just weaklings to be slaughtered like cattle; they just suffer from an overexposure of lesser showings, although stuff like TFU and the CW series go in the opposite direction.

DE set a bad trend, and the lack of direction from GL post-OT basically left the door open for some over the top Force feats that seem really jarring with the arrival of the PT much later. This is something I harp on the creator for doing, because no ground rules were really established to prevent us from having these huge inconsistencies. OT has as it's greatest Force feats the Emperor's Sith Lightning and Yoda levitating an X-Wing out of a Dagobah swamp. EU comes around, we have black magic, dudes using ships to chuck star cores, etc. etc. Luke has become rather flanderized in terms of powers, but I can't speak to his development. I thought the idea of him being dominated and forced to accept the Dark Side in DE was just stupid after RotJ.

I agree. Luke turning to the dark side temporarily was absolute stupidity from the writer's part. After RotJ, it was pretty much established that Luke wasn't like his father at all, and that he would never fall.

Originally posted by Petrus
I agree. Luke turning to the dark side temporarily was absolute stupidity from the writer's part. After RotJ, it was pretty much established that Luke wasn't like his father at all, and that he would never fall.

Luke is a much better character than his father, even when he's whining about power converters. But in the OT, the real man was Han Solo.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So this is your supporting argument, one accolade for the Knight? Honestly, Mace has better quotes then dat. Also, hype is not always power. The Exile got a ton of hype, I don't see you putting her up their.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Seen in generations...they don't even give him the benefit of the doubt and say centuries. lol.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Becoming a expert duelist? They don't even give him the full title. And Scourge was a expert duelist, yet he got pretty owned by Nyriss.

Nyriss overwhelmed Scourge on the basis of her superior mastery of the Force but Scourge had ample time to hone his talents during his reign as Emperor's Wrath. He is legitimately among the TOP DUELIST OF THE MYTHOS, like this or not.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
This doesn't put him above average Jedi Knight level.

HoT defeated the formidable Bengel Morr prior to his Knighthood, a feat which "most" Jedi Knights cannot hope to accomplish. I would include "most" Jedi Masters in this case as well.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Only decades? :/

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Wow! An impressive accolade. Finally! However Luke has alot better ones then this...

This accolade suggests that HoT is above any Jedi during his era. And this era contains powerhouses such as Satele Shan, Syo Bakarn, Jaric Kaedan, Aryn Leener, and Tol Braga. Even some lesser ones (not mentioned above) have Count Dooku level Force abilities. Do the math.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not even an accolade.

This accolade suggests that HoT was so well-versed in the ways of the Force even during the early phase of his story arc that veteran Jedi Masters felt that HoT had nothing much to learn even in his early days.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Impressive? That's really all the Sith's giving him?

Some people are more conservative then others in appreciating someone.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Umm? Not even a accolade.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Impressed. But Scourge gave better accolades to Revan's name.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Very similar to many Mace accolades, impressive.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Luke has similar accoaldes.

"I-felt someone very powerful in the Force," she said, her voice slightly shaky and laced with an uncertainty that Vestara had never heard from her. It made her stomach clench. "Strong in the power of the light side." A Jedi...a great Master."

" A short time ago, many of us felt a very strong rippling in the Force. We sensed a presence that we immediately realized would be a threat to us."

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Doesn't put him top tier. Anakin has quotes like this.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I swear one of the Jedi in KOTOR said basically the same thing to Revan.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You have yet to prove where the Hero is superior!

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He got the accolade "legendary" from a Sith apprentice..and don't mean to ruin your dreams bro, but Obi-Wan got that same title.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Unlogical since it's not based of fact, just favoritism and hope.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
To start off with, the Hero's best accolades state the best in like several generations...Luke's is one of the best in HISTORY, applying to thousands upon thousands of more Jedi including the Clone Wars.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And secondly, unless you can prove with evidence they are equal, it's honestly all opinion. Luke is getting similar accolades the Hero as even before ROTJ, imagine his strength beyond that. Wait-don't imagine, because we already know, and it's immense!

Considering Scourge was willing to betray Revan and the Exile, purely because he saw the HoT defeating the Emperor, after witnessing some of the Emperor's power first-hand, kind of shows how powerful the HoT has to be. For Scourge to betray his allies just so he could wait for that to happen, shows to the kind of skill the HoT has under their belt.

At least that's how that whole thing seems to me.

Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
Considering Scourge was willing to betray Revan and the Exile, purely because he saw the HoT defeating the Emperor, after witnessing some of the Emperor's power first-hand, kind of shows how powerful the HoT has to be. For Scourge to betray his allies just so he could wait for that to happen, shows to the kind of skill the HoT has under their belt.

At least that's how that whole thing seems to me.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Also, with all those (paper tiger) abilities, I wonder why the hell Luke just didn't atomize or brutally put down Lost Tribe Sith?

Uh, beg your pardon but you know Luke is a Jedi? Atomising people, even enemies, or brutally putting them down, is something Jedi don't do. They have too much respect for the Force to do stuff like that.

Anyway, I'll say Luke wins this one but it's a VERY tough fight that ends with him barely alive and needing an immediate dunk in a bacta tank.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Mace's era doesn't have that much quality. Yoda, Dooku, Anakin, Obi-Wan and Bariss were the only standouts apart from Mace. The rest were meh.

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

I'm sorry this is hilarious. The SWTOR era's Jedi are absolutely abhorred. Satele's predecessor got killed by a ****ing bounty hunter and even Satele Shan has feats that are Kit Fisto level. Her best feat is defeating a not at peak level Darth Malgus with help from a trooper.

The only Jedi from that era that are worth a damn are Satele, Barsen'thor, HoT and Jaric Kaedan.

Mace's era has Yoda, Dooku, Anakin, Obi-Wan sure. But then Tiin, Kolar, and Fisto are all hailed as some of the greatest blademasters in the Order's 20,000 year history NOT just in generations. Also Shaak Ti most certainly stands out. Subverting a Dark Side nexus and making it her personal playground is a feat and a half.

You do realize that in novels Satele has Force feats bordering on Yoda levels right? Or are you making this judgment solely from some Youtube trailers?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
You do realize that in novels Satele has Force feats bordering on Yoda levels right? Or are you making this judgment solely from some Youtube trailers?

Even then, what she does in the trailers is damn impressive..

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I'm sorry this is hilarious. The SWTOR era's Jedi are absolutely abhorred. Satele's predecessor got killed by a ****ing bounty hunter and even Satele Shan has feats that are Kit Fisto level. Her best feat is defeating a not at peak level Darth Malgus with help from a trooper.

Analogy: Jango Fett held his own against notable Jedi such as Obi-Wan and even Mace Windu. He lost to Windu because he got overrun by an animal during the heat of battle while he was too preoccupied with Windu to concentrate on other potential threats.

The Bounty Hunter featured in SWTOR story is a class of his own in the mythos. He is that damn good.

---

Satele Shan on Kit Fisto level? You've got to be f***k*** kidding me.

Also, send the infamous B-Team (Fisto, Kolar and Tinn) to confront Darth Malgus and watch this team getting dismantled without much fight.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
The only Jedi from that era that are worth a damn are Satele, Barsen'thor, HoT and Jaric Kaedan.

Here is a list of impressive Jedi that you are overlooking:

- Tol Braga
- Bengel Morr
- Aryn Leener
- Jun Seros
- Nghani Zho
- Usma
- Syo Bakarn
- Kao Cen Darach
- Ven Zallow
- Orgus Din
- Leeha Narez
- Kellian Jarro
- Warren Sedoru

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Mace's era has Yoda, Dooku, Anakin, Obi-Wan sure. But then Tiin, Kolar, and Fisto are all hailed as some of the greatest blademasters in the Order's 20,000 year history NOT just in generations. Also Shaak Ti most certainly stands out. Subverting a Dark Side nexus and making it her personal playground is a feat and a half.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Which predecessor? Bounty Hunters can be extremely dangerous, if they are at the top their game with elite gear, combat skills and tactical brilliance.

[B]Analogy: Jango Fett held his own against notable Jedi such as Obi-Wan and even Mace Windu. He lost to Windu because he got overrun by an animal during the heat of battle while he was too preoccupied with Windu to concentrate on other potential threats.

The Bounty Hunter featured in SWTOR story is a class of his own in the mythos. He is that damn good.

---

Satele Shan on Kit Fisto level? You've got to be f***k*** kidding me.

Also, send the infamous B-Team (Fisto, Kolar and Tinn) to confront Darth Malgus and watch this team getting dismantled without much fight.

Really?

Here is a list of impressive Jedi that you are overlooking:

- Tol Braga
- Bengel Morr
- Aryn Leener
- Jun Seros
- Nghani Zho
- Usma
- Syo Bakarn
- Kao Cen Darach
- Ven Zallow
- Orgus Din
- Leeha Narez
- Kellian Jarro
- Warren Sedoru

Shaak Ti demonstrated her true potential during OT era when Jedi Order did not existed. [/B]

I agree that TOR Jedi were very impressive, and that the Champion is on a whole other level. But I don't think the B-team would be completely annihilated against Malgus ala Sidious. Sidious > Malgus. Maybe they would ultimately lose, but I don't think it'd be easy for him.

👆

Pretty sure if TOR writers scripted a fight with Malgus and the trio, they'd do better, but simply because the writers have better choreography going for them. Malgus during the sack of the Jedi Temple cut through a few Jedi and his stomp of elite Ven was rather quick. I doubt he'd do a Psycho Crusher and then telegraph a simple stab while they cluster in a doorway, frozen as if Exar Kun had hold of them like in the movie.

Originally posted by Petrus
I agree that TOR Jedi were very impressive, and that the Champion is on a whole other level. But I don't think the B-team would be completely annihilated against Malgus ala Sidious. Sidious > Malgus. Maybe they would ultimately lose, but I don't think it'd be easy for him.

The latter 3 Jedi may not be outright fodder for Malgus, in the form of a Jedi Strike Team, but this team won't push him much either and would likely end up loosing without much fight.

Malgus, in his worst condition, destroyed 2 Jedi in a confrontation (one was a powerhouse). Malgus is this damn good, even if he is not Sidious.

Fisto, Tinn and Kolar are actually good swodrsmen, contrary to popular belief. Satele is good, but she won't beat those three together. In fact, I doubt anyone other than Sidious and Force-users on his level would be able to blitz them. Malgus is a powerhouse, but he's not on Sidious' level and he won't be cruising through those three. They'd give him a fight, at least.

Which Jedi powerhouse are you refering to? Kao?