Originally posted by ares834
Plus he is spinning it helicopter style.... Lol who cares. Grievous can also do that but at what appears to be an even faster speed. And yet, no one uses that as evidence as him being a skilled duelist.
I'm personally of the opinion that when Grievous is spinning his lightsabers, thats what the RotS novel is referring to when it says his '20 strike a second' thing.
Anything else is just flat out non-canon imo.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Hero pulling down that 4-story building was one of his few TK feat, and his best. Meanwhile, Luke's already pulling down a 3-story building 30 years before his prime. Like heck, the strength Luke grew in LOTF alone is basically unavailable, mastering around 7 new Force techniques including Force Fold.
Holistically, HoT have "performance/accomplishments" on par with that of Luke. In-fact, it is possible that Luke may have failed in HoT's path (hint already provided; see below).
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Luke's powers were diminished from Abeloth's own nexus, who's power is even much greater then Vitiates. In fact, I think Luke even said that the nexus Abeloth created was much greater then Palpatine's from Byss. Here's a little quote from Luke's time at the Nexus of Doom:"Everyone responded at once, without question of hesitation, and began to race back toward the gate. The ground began to shake again, yet more violently, and Luke heard the sound of laughter-Abeloth's laughter- following them as they ran for their very lives."
Remove that "much" part from your statement.
From Star Wars: The Old Republic: EncyclopediaThe ritual lasted ten days. Lord Vitiate orchestrated the sorcery and the planet Mediraas was consumed by the largest dark side nexus the galaxy would ever see. When the ritual ended, Lord Vitiate emerged as the only survivor. The pain, energy, and suffering of every living entity on the planet fueled his power and would prolong his life for centuries. The lifeless planet of Mediraas became a void in the Force and was erased from history. From that moment forward, the world would forever be known as Nathema, birthplace of the one and only Sith Emperor.
The nexus that Vitiate left on Nathema was so powerful that it was lethal to all biota. Later on, Vitiate created another nexus on Dromund Kaas with his experiments and power and this nexus was potent enough to diminish the capabilities of practitioners of the light side. When Luke and his companions visited Dromund Kaas, they experienced the negative effects of its nexus.
I have been referring to Luke's experiences on Dromund Kaas.
To learn more about Vitiate, you need to check this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=587136&pagenumber=1
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well to be fair, he tore through 16 Sith in a state near death...
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Against either of them he was only aided by one other. Palpatine with Leia, Abeloth with Krayt...regardless, either is impressive, for both Palpatine (DE) and Abeloth are stronger then Vitiate.
In case of Palpatine, it took the combined might of 3 Force-users (2 Skywalkers among them) to undermine him temporarily: Luke + Leia + unborn child of Leia. Palpatine actually lost due to instability of his clones.
In case of Abeloth, it wasn't just Luke and Krayt who were responsible for defeating her. She was defeated by combined efforts of many Force-users.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So? Revan tore through those Star Forges forces, which at hundreds of Dark Side Adepts and troopers. And we all know Luke>Revan.
HoT's "quest to defeat Sith Emperor" arguably represents the greatest show of success/accomplishment of any Jedi in the mythos.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Read by counter to that further above ^
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And Luke couldn't? lol
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, but Caedus is above the Hero. ^.^
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Poor comparison. Luke fought these Sith at a state I belived actually described by Ben as worse then death...he was just in Beyond the Shadows for like a couple months.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nope, I wouldn't even put the Hero above Mace. And if so, ever so slightly.
Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Since he's using a saber staff, he's only produced 19 images from 2 blades or just 9.5 after images per blade.Luke had twice as many with a single blade.
Holistically, HoT have "performance/accomplishments" on par with that of Luke. In-fact, it is possible that Luke may have failed in HoT's path (hint already provided; see below).
98% of the people on this forum agree that Luke beats the Hero of Tython. Heck bro, the Hero got nothing on Luke. Luke has so many feats and accolades there is no comparison.
What is the Hero's greatest feat? Defeating a weakened and vulnerable Vitiate after his first try failed? What is his best lightsaber combat feat? Or Force feat? Or accolade? Luke is better in every aspect! Lightsaber, Force, Knowledge, Experience, Potential...no debate. Tell me, where is the Hero superior?
Heres just three of Luke's feats...where is the Hero superior?
"Luke Skywalker, the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, was being accused for the millions of deaths the second civil war supplied?"
-Fate of the Jedi: Outcast
"Iin the next instant, Caedus (Darth Caedus) found himself flying accross the cabin toward his observation bubble. Luke had not gestured, had not flinched, had not even shifted his gaze; he has simply grabbed Caedus in the force and hurled him five meter into his chair."
-Legacy of the Force: Inferno
-Dark Empire
HoT is not given the credit he deserves here. I think his victory against Vitiate means something even though it wasn't Vitiate's full potential. I mean the likes of Mace Windu would start crying when Vitiate starts to dominate his brain. Its impressive to even survive Dromund Kaas by yourself like that. Luke would take this I have no doubt but HoT is impressive too.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
98% of the people on this forum agree that Luke beats the Hero of Tython. Heck bro, the Hero got nothing on Luke. Luke has so many feats and accolades there is no comparison.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What is the Hero's greatest feat? Defeating a weakened and vulnerable Vitiate after his first try failed?
No one else had the capability to walk out alive from this encounter; all bets were on HoT only.
Also, Luke have never failed, right? He have failed numerous times as well, only to be rescued by fate or allies.
I can point out a Dark Jedi who utterly outclassed Luke (and Luke was very powerful at this point). Heck, Lumiya have beaten him once as well.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What is his best lightsaber combat feat?
Praven have history of defeating some of finest duelists of the Jedi Order in its history. Scourge have over 1000 (Jedi and Sith) kills under his belt. Do the math.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Or Force feat?
However, available evidence reveals that HoT had developed such level of Force abilities that he could pull off impressive feats without gestures (a sign of extraordinary mastery of the Force). To give you an idea, the list of Force-users who could pull off impressive feats without gestures is very small. I recall only Yoda and Vitiate doing impressive things without gestures.
Just as a padawan, HoT had surpassed some powerful Jedi Masters. Imagine.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Or accolade?
HoT represented a prophesized champion of light. This is next to the hype of Chosen One.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Luke is better in every aspect! Lightsaber, Force, Knowledge, Experience, Potential...no debate. Tell me, where is the Hero superior?
Explain to me that why Luke lost his effectiveness on Dromund Kaas?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Heres just three of Luke's feats...where is the Hero superior?"Luke Skywalker, the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, was being accused for the millions of deaths the second civil war supplied?"
-Fate of the Jedi: Outcast
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"Iin the next instant, Caedus (Darth Caedus) found himself flying accross the cabin toward his observation bubble. Luke had not gestured, had not flinched, had not even shifted his gaze; he has simply grabbed Caedus in the force and hurled him five meter into his chair."
-Legacy of the Force: Inferno
Originally posted by DarthAnt66-Dark Empire
You think that this feat cannot be matched by someone as powerful as HoT? You are out of your mind then.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Look! 98% people used to believe that Earth was flat in ancient times. I am not interested in popular opinion but accurate assessment of things.So defeating even a vulnerable Vitiate is not a big deal? Seriously?
No one else had the capability to walk out alive from this encounter; all bets were on HoT only.
Also, Luke have never failed, right? He have failed numerous times as well, only to be rescued by fate or allies.
I can point out a Dark Jedi who utterly outclassed Luke (and Luke was very powerful at this point). Heck, Lumiya have beaten him once as well.
HoT have blitzed some skilled warriors who attempted to assassinate him. He also have subdued renowned duelists such as Praven and Scourge when both were at their prime, but spared their lives.
Praven have history of defeating some of finest duelists of the Jedi Order in its history. Scourge have over 1000 (Jedi and Sith) kills under his belt. Do the math.
With current information, this kind of comparison is not possible.
However, available evidence reveals that HoT had developed such level of Force abilities that he could pull off impressive feats without gestures (a sign of extraordinary mastery of the Force). To give you an idea, the list of Force-users who could pull off impressive feats without gestures is very small. I recall only Yoda and Vitiate doing impressive things without gestures.
Just as a padawan, HoT had surpassed some powerful Jedi Masters. Imagine.
Like everybody being impressed by him (in an era of powerhouses to be more precise)?
HoT represented a prophesized champion of light. This is next to the hype of Chosen One.
This is logical fallacy! You are not properly evaluating the strengths and weaknesses of Luke. You are just focusing on his strengths.
Explain to me that why Luke lost his effectiveness on Dromund Kaas?
Revan have better accolade! He is still below HoT.
Caedus was caught off guard. Still this puts Luke in the list of Force-user who can pull off impressive feats without gestures.
Galen Marek have matching feat. Willing to consider him on par with Luke?
You think that this feat cannot be matched by someone as powerful as HoT? You are out of your mind then.
Galen Marek also defeated Vader, and it wasn't that far from a stomp.
Vader has 80% of Sidious' Power.
Which means Galen Marek has to have at least 85% or higher of Sidious Strength, and since he fought Sidious to a near Draw, we can likely put him at 95%. But Luke is above Sidious currently. I think he'd be able to defeat Sidious, as most people describe Luke's force abilities as God-Like.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDIt doesn't matter if he overshadowed Revan, which he didn't, or even Caedus or Malgus or Bane for that matter - FoTJ Luke overshadowed the likes of Sidious, Gethzerion, and Yoda.
That performance is against defenseless mooks.Seriously, mate, stop underestimating HoT. He has overshadowed even Revan.
Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia makes it abundantly clear that no one compares to HoT from the Jedi camp. The only other who comes close is Bersen'thor of his time who has some insane capabilities as well.
So defeating even a vulnerable Vitiate is not a big deal? Seriously?
Vitiate's best combat feats are dominating their minds. He was unable to do so in the final fight. He is then no saber feats or force feats other then blasting Revan with lightning. Beating a weakened Vitiate without his mindcontrol and other sorcery powers has not impressed me enough to even put the Hero above Caedus.
No one else had the capability to walk out alive from this encounter; all bets were on HoT only.
Well the only two powerful Jedi who went up against him was Revan and the Hero, don't act like thousands did.
I can point out a Dark Jedi who utterly outclassed Luke (and Luke was very powerful at this point). Heck, Lumiya have beaten him once as well.
Lumiya beat Luke prior to Dark Empire. 😆 Lets not forget then LOTF Luke beat Lumiya so bad their final fight it was embarrassing.
HoT have blitzed some skilled warriors who attempted to assassinate him. He also have subdued renowned duelists such as Praven and Scourge when both were at their prime, but spared their lives.
So this puts him Luke level? 😆 Luke has speed blitz Vong warriors and Sith apprentices at ease. Luke has also out dueled:
-Palpatine (Second Encounter). With the aid of Leia, Luke outdueled Palpatine and disarmed him...something even Yoda couldn't do.
-Lumiya. Basically annihlated Lumiya on their second encounter, dispite Lumiya still using a lightwhip, a very unfamilar weapon to Luke. Lumiya was personally trained by Vader and the master of Cadeus...not someone to mess with.
"I don't think the three of us are a match for Lumiya..."
-Zekk, to Jaina Solo and Jagged Fel
-Supreme Overlord Shimrra Jamaan, who was stated to be the most powerful Yuuzang Vong warrior.
-Viun Gaalan, this is impressive due to how easily Luke beat him.
Viun accolade: "Galant struck Luke, high, low, a series of subtle and sophisticated blows that would have bewildered any lesser duelist. He was good; Luke gave him that. He might have been a match for an expert sword master such as Kyp or Kyle Katarn...He parried each of Gaalan's blows, and his ripostes-his blade skittering off Gaalan's and thrusting now at the Sith Lords's face, now at shoulder or knee or torso-came increasingly close to touching flesh. Luke smiled at the man."
...and I'm not even mentioning his fights with Caedus, Vader, or Abeloth...
With current information, this kind of comparison is not possible.
Then accept that due to facts, Luke is much more powerful...we can't be doing fantasies here bro.
Just as a padawan, HoT had surpassed some powerful Jedi Masters. Imagine.
As of ROTJ novel (Or might have been ESB actually), Luke was described as the most powerful Jedi Vader has ever seen, dispite formal training...and Vader killed hundreds in the Purge!
Like everybody being impressed by him (in an era of powerhouses to be more precise)?
Quotes?
This is logical fallacy! You are not properly evaluating the strengths and weaknesses of Luke. You are just focusing on his strengths.
In a fight against the Hero, Luke has no weakness. Unless they are on some Dark Side nexus, Luke will be superior in every area because he is simply the more powerful. What are the Hero's strengths? Where is the Hero superior? Give me some force and combat feats or else it's safe to say Luke wins...
(Everything else you said)
"Luke Skywalker, the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, was being accused for the millions of deaths the second civil war supplied?"
"I-felt someone very powerful in the Force," she said, her voice slightly shaky and laced with an uncertainty that Vestara had never heard from her. It made her stomach clench. "Strong in the power of the light side." A Jedi...a great Master."
"As Luke and Ben push their Force abilities beyond known limits they draw closer to a nexus of the dark-side..."
"Luke Skywalker is still the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. I think we should assume he has a plan."
"...but rather a fight with one of the most powerful Jedi in history"
...I have litterly like a hundred accolades, and I only used the ones really from Fate of the Jedi. I didn't even start with Legacy of the Force or New Jedi Order yet. While yet the Hero's best are calling him the best padawan... 😂
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZActually... If the "Revan" Novel had killed off Meetra, but she was still alive (This a what-if, calm down, people) in SWTOR, the SWTOR game would be above it in Canon.
Jmang, Galen barely beat a non-prime Vader as per the novel, which is superior to the gameplay in terms of canon.
Also, The TFU game is G-Canon (well maybe not Direct G-canon, because it happens to be a game), since it came directly from George Lucas itself while the Novel came from Sean Williams.
So, George Lucas = TFU Game
Sean Williams = TFU Novel
Even if he told Williams to write the book, he directly oversaw the TFU Game.