angrir vs classic diana w/weapons

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yup. Don't underestimate the power of paper cuts:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/71810/2033631-superman_v2_211__2005___team_dcp__pg11.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/71810/2033641-superman_v2_211__2005___team_dcp__pg12.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/71810/2033655-superman_v2_211__2005___team_dcp__pg17.jpg

Superman just smacked a hoe like it was the 1950's!! So, um, what happened to her super speed, or did she just tank the attack because she got all emotional? 😛 Sure does look like she was moving slow as hell.

Originally posted by leonidas
by someone arguably who is arguably as strong

Strongly disagreed. I think Worthy Thing is a good deal stronger then Diana. Rulk alone is stronger then her.

In the very same comic that Thor killed him, he took a charged Mjolnir throw to the face and was only slightly budged:
http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/sp/0a2d8cb5a38559d1be3bed1ee86096b9/FI_5_Oroboros_CPS_006.jpg

He also withstood a beating from Rulk that would leave Wonder Woman bruised, bleeding and broken without a scratch. He's noticeably more durable as well.

Originally posted by leonidas
in the second scans, the sword looks like a dagger. AND supes was fast enough to grab diana. ben? not gonna have that option....again, it's not ben's physical power that is in doubt--least not by me. ww is in his class and has a skill and speed advantage with a weapon capable of killing him with the right hit. i'm not thinking that stance is particularly unreasonable....

I think it's the exact same shit: Mystical blade she brings to a fight. Are you talking about the length of the metal?

How about you post an example of Diana using her sword to kill anyone of any noticeable stature? Because as far as I've seen, all the sword has ever done is break the skin of an opponent and despite all her supposed skill and speed, has never actually won her a fight.

Fyi, in the comic Bran posted, Wonder Woman destroys the sword by tossing it on the ground:

So yea, lol.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Where did you get the idea that you can make me do anything I don't chose to do?

my OPINION is just as valid as your OPINION.

For someone with such negative opinions of women u kind of come off sounding like a chick.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Strongly disagreed. I think Worthy Thing is a good deal stronger then Diana. Rulk alone is stronger then her.

In the very same comic that Thor killed him, he took a charged Mjolnir throw to the face and was only slightly budged:
http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/sp/0a2d8cb5a38559d1be3bed1ee86096b9/FI_5_Oroboros_CPS_006.jpg

He also withstood a beating from Rulk that would leave Wonder Woman bruised, bleeding and broken without a scratch. He's noticeably more durable as well.

I think it's the exact same shit: Mystical blade she brings to a fight. Are you talking about the length of the metal?

How about you post an example of Diana using her sword to kill anyone of any noticeable stature? Because as far as I've seen, all the sword has ever done is break the skin of an opponent and despite all her supposed skill and speed, has never actually won her a fight.

Fyi, in the comic Bran posted, Wonder Woman destroys the sword by tossing it on the ground:

So yea, lol.

well, she IS a good guy, so expecting to see her gut someone? not happening. it's cut supes and mongul in the scans shown. that's enough to say it could pierce ben i think. the blade did seem very short, so of course that would make a difference. stabbing ben with a dagger vs a long sword? far more difficult clearly....as for his being far stronger? definitely disagree. stronger? i allowed for that earlier. enough of a difference to be the difference maker here? certainly not imo. you're arguing she can't do something because she hasn't--ie stab/kill a herald. that's usually a reasonable stance to take, one i take more often than not. in this case though, like logan has taken out abomination when he stabbed him through the head/neck, the weapon makes a big difference IF it is used in a lethal way--something she doesn't typically do. IF she wanted to kill though, i see no reason why she couldn't kill a lot of herald type beings who are much slower, and less skilled than she is. you seem to be arguing more AGAINST her doing it, than suggesting ways for ben to COUNTER it. to me, this is just an interesting discussion. i don't really have a horse in the race. but styles make fights and this doesn't seem to be the type of opponent that ben was made to handle.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, she IS a good guy, so expecting to see her gut someone? not happening.

And it probably shouldn't be after she brutally killed Maxwell Lord on worldwide TV.

Originally posted by Raptor22
For someone with such negative opinions of women u kind of come off sounding like a chick.

I'll take your personal comments off the air. By the way, it's a common practice of male chauvinist to refer to women as chicks. Got an opinion on the topic or are you just taking a sTROLL through the park?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Then she probably shouldn't use a sword at all. And she shouldn't slash at the top half of someone's body with it.

And it probably shouldn't be after she brutally killed Maxwell Lord on worldwide TV.

Lmao! And her supporters should probably stop talking abouy how the blessed ball of clay chops high heralds up like a serial killer.

Doesn't Angrir have range advantage? I remember him using blasts to level buildings and at close range against Rulk.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Then she probably shouldn't use a sword at all. And she shouldn't slash at the top half of someone's body with it.

And it probably shouldn't be after she brutally killed Maxwell Lord on worldwide TV.

probably not but her character, like all characters, has evolved over the last bunch of years. she really shouldn't be ready to utterly cleave someone's skull either, but it's those odd showings here and there that allow me to say she can do what she would do with the sword and not be entirely ooc, though it is still a minor question in my mind.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, she IS a good guy, so expecting to see her gut someone? not happening. it's cut supes and mongul in the scans shown. that's enough to say it could pierce ben i think. the blade did seem very short, so of course that would make a difference. stabbing ben with a dagger vs a long sword? far more difficult clearly....as for his being far stronger? definitely disagree. stronger? i allowed for that earlier. enough of a difference to be the difference maker here? certainly not imo. you're arguing she can't do something because she hasn't--ie stab/kill a herald. that's usually a reasonable stance to take, one i take more often than not. in this case though, like logan has taken out abomination when he stabbed him through the head/neck, the weapon makes a big difference IF it is used in a lethal way--something she doesn't typically do. IF she wanted to kill though, i see no reason why she couldn't kill a lot of herald type beings who are much slower, and less skilled than she is. you seem to be arguing more AGAINST her doing it, than suggesting ways for ben to COUNTER it. to me, this is just an interesting discussion. i don't really have a horse in the race. but styles make fights and this doesn't seem to be the type of opponent that ben was made to handle.

So it's unreasonable for me to ask evidence of her gutting anyone from a comic book but here you are arguing that she's going to win by seriously maiming Angrir? Fyi, around Infinite Crisis, Wonder Woman was actually pretty ruthless; she wasn't holding back against Mongul and it did here absolutely no good.

Yes, Angrir is noticeably stronger then Diana, to the point it would make a difference (Like any other fight against a High Herald such as Thor, Hulk, Superman etc.). As a matter of fact, Rulk at the time under Bendis was also stronger then Diana (Easily on the level of beings like Thor/Hulk) and he couldn't do absolutely anything to Angrir. Basically, if she tried to fight Angrir in close combat directly? It would not go well for her. A direct shot from that meat cleaver to the face would really mess up her day.

Also, why are you assuming the sword can even pierce Ben enough to do any serious damage? Neither of us can think of any instance when the sword has maimed someone of noticeable durability enough to give her a win. This is especially notable because Diana easily broke the sword by tossing it on the ground. For all it's sharpness, it's not particularly durable apparently. Heck, can you even think of a time when the sword has made a noticeable difference in a fight? Because she's been ***** slapped every time I've seen her whip it out.

Fyi, Thing has shown that he can fly, use powerful energy blasts, control the weather and lighting. The Worthy have also shown teleportation energy absorption and other such Thor-like tricks so there are a variety of counters that Angrir can fall back on.

Originally posted by Q99

I can't help but noticing Wonder Woman's not even remotely near 'down' in that. Actually, it's kinda weird, page 22 shows her punching him (and him reacting like it hurt), page 23 has him holding the lasso and getting away from her while she's just holding her head like she's got a headache but looks in much better shape than him, and in fact he doesn't so much as punch her once. I mean, pretty good escape for him there, but he hardly 'beat them all up.'

It's really quite hard to take you seriously when your argument relies so much on ignoring data on one hand, and massively overstating on the other.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So it's unreasonable for me to ask evidence of her gutting anyone from a comic book but here you are arguing that she's going to win by seriously maiming Angrir? Fyi, around Infinite Crisis, Wonder Woman was actually pretty ruthless; she wasn't holding back against Mongul and it did here absolutely no good.

Yes, Angrir is noticeably stronger then Diana, to the point it would make a difference (Like any other fight against a High Herald such as Thor, Hulk, Superman etc.). As a matter of fact, Rulk at the time under Bendis was also stronger then Diana (Easily on the level of beings like Thor/Hulk) and he couldn't do absolutely anything to Angrir. Basically, if she tried to fight Angrir in close combat directly? It would not go well for her. A direct shot from that meat cleaver to the face would really mess up her day.

Also, why are you assuming the sword can even pierce Ben enough to do any serious damage? Neither of us can think of any instance when the sword has maimed someone of noticeable durability enough to give her a win. This is especially notable because Diana easily broke the sword by tossing it on the ground. For all it's sharpness, it's not particularly durable apparently. Heck, can you even think of a time when the sword has made a noticeable difference in a fight? Because she's been ***** slapped every time I've seen her whip it out.

Fyi, Thing has shown that he can fly, use powerful energy blasts, control the weather and lighting. The Worthy have also shown teleportation energy absorption and other such Thor-like tricks so there are a variety of counters that Angrir can fall back on.

it's not unreasonable for you to ask. you simply knew the answer already, and the reasons why you wouldn't see it. i still disagree with the strength issue. maybe rulk was stronger than she was, but then if i agreed to that i'd say he was stronger than thor as well. he might be, but again the difference would be minimal. angrir is stronger, and if it were just h2h it WOULD be a difference maker over time, but in this type of fight? i don't see it. i assume the sword would pierce him because....when has it failed? it's cut everyone. killed? no, but that is generally not her intent. i could likewise be asking for proof that ben could react to someone with her combat speed. any feats there to support her not gutting him at superspeeds?

if you're arguing he could BREAK the sword via a hammer stroke or something, i'd grant you that possibility, no doubt. i just think her speed and skill would prevent that more often than not. his energy and flight (he never showed any) would help, but she also has the shield AND bracers so she could defend. you also seem to be under the impression that i think it would be easy, or she would sweep. i never said either. but over the long haul i like her more than i do him for all the reasons i mentioned, but angrir would certain take some.

But in your imaginary world where the throat slit didn't even made him stop talking was more severe than that trauma. Riiiiiiiiiight.

Gurgled words while his neck is covered in blood is not as bad as a mild 'shaking your head clear' now? ^^ And you do know what a jugular vein is, right?

And you're also overlooking the 'holding his side from a kick for multiple pages,' 'limping,' and 'bleeding ears.'

All he did was throw a lightning bolt at her which is a standard captain marvel tactic.

Yea, a lightning bolt after he'd been supercharged by absorbing the power of three other marvels.

Imaginary wounds are just that. Imaginary.

Like I said, your argument is just based on ignoring what happened in the fights.

Sure. He would've still killed her in three shots, broke her shoulders and she only gained an oppertunity when he was distracted.

Funny thing, despite your assertions, she won, and he had help at the start else she would've been able to use the lasso much sooner.

Just like she *always* stands up to him. 10th Circle? For Tomorrow? Sacrifice? Circe-controlled?

Not to mention one of the times she says he's stronger, League of One, still involves her specifically beating him up to the point where "You can't stop me and rescue the league."

Her performance record against Superman is pretty consistent. She can inflict significant damage to him and has done so in at least three of those fights. She can and has stalemated him for some times when both are acting at normal levels. Yadda yadda.

It can't be that Cap actually beat her and took her lasso from her and then awakened her with the shazam bolt, right? Occam's razor and all that shit.

She was in much better shape than Superman in Sacrifice was, is the point.

You're calling 'looks like she's mildly dazed' a loss, but not counting Superman getting much worse.

"Ignore half the fight" is never going to be a good argument.

Repeatedly not counting it and not liking my argument is dumb for, gasp, using the whole data, just broadcasts your bias.

Originally posted by Q99
Gurgled words while his neck is covered in blood is not as bad as a mild 'shaking your head clear' now? ^^ And you do know what a jugular vein is, right?

Repeatedly not counting it and not liking my argument is dumb for, gasp, using the whole data, just broadcasts your bias.

Originally posted by leonidas
it's not unreasonable for you to ask. you simply knew the answer already, and the reasons why you wouldn't see it. i still disagree with the strength issue. maybe rulk was stronger than she was, but then if i agreed to that i'd say he was stronger than thor as well. he might be, but again the difference would be minimal. angrir is stronger, and if it were just h2h it WOULD be a difference maker over time, but in this type of fight? i don't see it. i assume the sword would pierce him because....when has it failed? it's cut everyone. killed? no, but that is generally not her intent. i could likewise be asking for proof that ben could react to someone with her combat speed. any feats there to support her not gutting him at superspeeds?

I don't understand, why would you? Diana is not in anyway, shape or form, equal with Thor in physical strength. Thor has a notable strength advantage over Wonder Woman himself at times, particularly at high end portrayals such as under Fraction. Although tbh, saying Rulk was slightly stronger then Thor wouldn't be exactly unreasonable blasphemy (I'm not a Superfan, I can be honest about such things 😛) but Wonder Woman and Thor have no direct correlation.

Originally posted by leonidas
if you're arguing he could BREAK the sword via a hammer stroke or something, i'd grant you that possibility, no doubt. i just think her speed and skill would prevent that more often than not. his energy and flight (he never showed any) would help, but she also has the shield AND bracers so she could defend. you also seem to be under the impression that i think it would be easy, or she would sweep. i never said either. but over the long haul i like her more than i do him for all the reasons i mentioned, but angrir would certain take some.

Looking at how easily it was destroyed by her, just trying to do any kind of serious damage outside of superficial cuts might destroy it alone. For example, if she tries to stab him directly in the chest, it's not crazy to argue it could break off while penetrating.

He can fly and project energy:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/254/worthything6.jpg
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5830/worthything7.jpg
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7707/worthything8.jpg
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4018/worthything9.jpg

The Worthy have the basic powers of Thor. Angrir can also summon lightning bolts and probably accomplish every other Thor trick the Worthy pulled off (Energy absorption, teleportation etc.).

Also, I'd like to note that the Worthy have shown massive healing factors (Attuma, Grey Gargoyle, Skadi, Kuurth etc.). I'd still bet on any damage Diana doing being healed. Like I said earlier, they have powerful defensive runes and Mjolnir has a history of overcoming such magic. You may think that this is silly, but I'd like to point you to Fear Itself #7 where the Odin enchanted heroes were absolutely raping the Worthy, including guys like Attuma and Kuurth. This is something worth noting.

Anyways, fair enough I guess. Tbh, I've lost interest in this discussion. You seem to be understand how powerful Angrir is, the difference in opinion seems to stem from the fact that I really doubt Wonder Woman's ability to finish the job.

believe it or not i do get where you're coming from with most of this. the thing that surprises me the most is how much differently we see the relative strength levels here. i'd def put ww in the same tier as thor. i'd give thor a slight edge, but that would be it, and it wouldn't be enough edge to really amount to much even in straight h2h. she def seems close to hercules (as seen in direct battle with him and with CM), or close enough for the difference to be negligible. at hh levels of strength, i think most differences are pretty minor.

it's possible the wounds would heal, but yeah, we'll just differ in our opinions on whether she could inflict enough damage through a killing strike to either finish him, or incapacitate him enough to ALLOW a finishing blow. i'd shied away from giving a number out of 10 before i hashed this out with someone a little more, but, while i'll still take diana more times than not, i think you raised some fair points. still no real counter to speed and skill imo, and intent to kill. i never even brought up the lasso, which would also be a real help to her in this. i think i'd take ww about 6/10 after some reflecting. you're probably thinking 9/10 to ben, maybe 10/10, but.....we can't always agree on everything. 🙂

Originally posted by abhilegend
Gurgled words? Are you sure you read the same book as everybody else?

I also like how you totally ignored the mental backlash part which knocked him out previously.

Also I know what a jugular vein is. Batman sliced it open with kryptonite in a similar fashion and Superman continued fighting.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=02-03.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=04.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=05.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=06.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=07.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=10.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=11.jpg
Hahaha, what? Show us this "limp" mentioned once and what about multiple pages?

Yet, only one shazam bolt changed him back to Billy. His lightning doesn't get supercharged.

You are the very last poster to say something like that.

She broke the mind control, that's it. Did superman won against wonder woman when he broke maxima's control over her?

Always context. Weakened. Didn't even wanted to fight her and still manhandled her like a child. KTFO in one punch. Would've killed her in three strikes and totally dominated her untill a plane distracted him. I give you some other instances like AOS 494, Superman/Batman 15 and Final Crisis where he treated her like a bug.

Because they were around sun. He couldn't beat her and rescue then in time. Its amusing you think sucker attacking him and admitting that she can't beat him is some kind of advantage on him. It shows just how above her he is. She didn't say he was just stronger, she flat out said she can't beat him. Its not the only instance though.

"Hey, you're not superman. I MAY win NOW."

Two confessions that she can't beat superman is too much. You'll never hear Captain Marvel or Orion say something like that.

She is always beneath him in raw power. When superman actually connects with her via shots, he breaks bones, he breaks her shoulder, he oneshots her. Stalemating him when he doesn't wants to fight you isn't asking for much.

Was she? He broke her shoulder, broke her arm, and gave her a concussion. She just cut his throat and that healed up.

Mildly dazed? She got KTFO and was waked up by external factors in heat of re-entry.

Where all she did was sucker attack him, knocked him down, kicked him once and fled once she realized she can't win a physical fight with him? Its useful to ignore that part for both of us.

Your grasping at straws is just cute. Would you like for me to post how she fares against Etrigan or martians or lanterns or flashes or any other top tier worth his salt? After all Iron man has beaten a mindcontrolled silver surfer and scored a double KO with him another time and that's way better than Diana's record against superman. Do we make him a high herald too?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I think Rulk said it best:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/5894/she-hulk-vs-red-hulk-wallpaper-l.jpg

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Fine, She Hulk rapes both Superman and Wonderwoman and leaves them at the edge of the universe holding each other. You done?

messed up thread.
i realy need to read fear itself.
although I'm already hating the art.
Is that Romita?

abhilegend
Gurgled words? Are you sure you read the same book as everybody else?

He has malformed speech bubbles, what did you think that represents? That's traditionally how writers portray weak or hindered speech.

Also note how he stopped to hold his throat before he was released from Lord's telepathy, so it's not that.

Also note how that is a lot of blood to be coming from someone's neck even when there was only a single panel before he applied pressure. That means it's a deep wound (well, and the cut itself shows it).

And we're supposed to believe she didn't have more of an advantage than the time she was... holding her head a little, looked totally conscious, and had no visible wounds?

It's all just double-standards.

Wonder Woman clearly has no problem causing major injury to Superman- in terms of capacity to dish damage. Also, she's clearly able to receive a lot of damage from someone of that level in turn and keep fighting, as encounters with no-holds-back Superman, Doomsday, and others have shown.

All this "it'd be one-sided/he's way strongest," simply isn't backed up, no matter how much you beg otherwise.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Lmao! And her supporters should probably stop talking abouy how the blessed ball of clay chops high heralds up like a serial killer.

You're right, she doesn't do so. By choice and ethics, though, not due to lack of capacity and weaponry. Key difference, remember it.