I haven't really had the time to review all the videos. Part of the reason I haven't also made the time is because I haven't played those class storylines, and I'd hate to remove the element of surprise.
However, Revan was mindraped and drained for 300 years and was still a dangerous opponent. Assuming he didn't recover fully before the Foundry fight, he's still a threat.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This seems a little too definitive. Can you scan this for us?
First Son:
In a climatic final battle with the galaxy at stake, these two masters of the Force cross sabers. (Page 99)
First Son actually have Palpatine level abilities:
Cloaked in the identity of Master Syo Bakarn, the First Son has been hiding the Children from the Jedi for decades, playing a long game with the Republic. His actions suggest a man possessing remarkable patience, ruthlessness and power. (Codex Entry)
Darth Marr:
Warlord and master of the dark side, Darth Marr is the most senior member of the Dark Council. Few know how Marr rose to power, and none speak of the man before he became a Lord of the Sith. When Marr speaks, he commands the attention of the entire Dark Council with intimidating authority and stern wisdom. (Page 174)
Darth Marr was so powerful and competent that he have routed whole armies of the Republic by himself:
Tales spread through the Republic of the masked Dark Council members who routed whole armies and deflected assaults more thoroughly than any planetary shield. (Page 174)
The aforementioned hype is complemented by some examples as well.
However, Darth Marr's supremacy is self explanatory from the fact that he became the de-factor leader of the Sith Empire in absence of the Sith Emperor; even Darth Malgus failed to compete with him.
In the Dark Council, his sphere of influence is "Defense of the Empire."
Marka Ragnos:
Finally a Sith Lord arose who exemplified the virtues of the Sith. Marka Ragnos was an imposing, merciless figure, a master of the Force and arts of war. He set his enemies at each other's throats and battled for supreme power. With the defeat of his last rival, Marka Ragnos became the new Dark Lord of the Sith. He ruled for over a century, unchallenged in a period of stability later called the Golden Age of the Sith. (Page 147)
The one about Ragnos in particular is pretty much his codex entry. I guess my main concern is how does the book explicitly establish a hierarchy of Dark Side users, if it does indeed do so? Or is it just open to interpretation? Marr's status is not in question, but tanking a Republic assault and killing an entire army is a "tale", and that is suspect.
Or perhaps I have misunderstood your earlier post and these individuals are simply indicated to be extremely powerful. Your earlier post seemed very definitive and put them in a specific order.
I agree with that, but Legend's post had a specific ordering, and that I contested. The stuff he has subsequently produced has not supported that ordering.
Also, Ragnos' standing is still pretty impressive, considering his loyal subjects who could not kill him on his death bed include the Kressh and Sadow clans which included the best Sith alchemists and artifact creators in the mythos and Tenebrae who pimpslapped his whole planet and was awarded a minor position by Ragnos in recognition.
While I think Vitiate may eventually surpass him in terms of "unchallenged badass", Ragnos is up there. I just am not certain that Legend's list is valid without real definite support.
Originally posted by Nephthys
What do you mean by establish a hierarchy? Ragnos has a good quote that pretty much puts to rest the dumb "he just ruled through political power' bullshit.
Except Ragnos did rule in part due to political cunning and strategic acumen. I'm not sure it was ever suggested that that's only how he maintained power.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The one about Ragnos in particular is pretty much his codex entry. I guess my main concern is how does the book explicitly establish a hierarchy of Dark Side users, if it does indeed do so? Or is it just open to interpretation? Marr's status is not in question, but tanking a Republic assault and killing an entire army is a "tale", and that is suspect.
This is the pyramid:-
- Sith Emperor
- Dread Masters
- Sith Elites (Dark Council members / Emperor's Wrath / First Son / remarkably powerful Sith Lords)
- Sith Lords
- Sith Apprentices
- Sith Acolytes
Marr's combat prowess is not suspect since he used to battle on the frontlines like Malgus. In-fact, his profile contains examples of some of his battles.
The word "tales" is used in the sense that tales spread within the entire Republic about remarkable combat prowess and power of a masked Dark Council member who have fought Republic forces on numerous situations and literally humiliated them.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Or perhaps I have misunderstood your earlier post and these individuals are simply indicated to be extremely powerful. Your earlier post seemed very definitive and put them in a specific order.
Originally posted by The_TempestNo one ever said Ragnos was a tard or a weakling. Only that Sidious is more brilliant and more powerful.
Which is clearly incorrect. Ragnos would not have been approached from behind and benchpressed into the abyss, nor would he have been shot in the back by Han Solo. Your argument is invalid.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
No, he ruled over the definitive Golden Age of the Sith, and his elite mooks included people who could crush Sidious' apprentices like grapes.
lolplz
Maul, the weakest of Sidious's apprentices, drags starships like Tonka toys whereas the best Sadow and Kressh can do is chuck three bricks.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
UR BUTTHURT IS SHOWING.
no u
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Ragnos > Sids.
Nonsense. One achieved unprecedented victory against the Republic and the Jedi and ruled the galaxy for twenty years in what is the most epic display of brilliance and cunning in the entire saga.
The other is Marka Ragnos.
U fayl