Respect Emperor Palpatine

Started by Stealth Moose7 pages

1. What is the context of those quotes? Are they omniscient third person narrator, or someone's in-universe POV?

2. At what point do we draw the line with hyperbole? With this kind of logic, Exar Kun is 100,000 times himself with amulets. Kun > everything.

3. An Insider magazine is an official magazine, IIRC, but not everything within it is G-canon. It includes editor's articles, fan mail, events, pictures, and even interviews with people spouting their opinions. It depends greatly on where the source is coming from, if it is quoted correctly and not trimmed or distorted, and how old it is.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I wish "Balance" wasn't personified by a stupid moron who thinks killing Sand people women and children

He admitted, "I know I'm better than this" in AoTC, he did not believe it was okay to kill Sand People women and children.

as well as killing Jedi younglings is ever morally correct.

Anakin had lost his sense of morality and was purely following orders to eliminate Force sensitives who've been initiated into the Jedi teachings for Palpatine.

But he had a selfish need to connect with his son

How is that selfish? It's an intrinsically motivated sense of morality.

It served as an indicator that a part of Anakin remained in that he was unable to put his responsibilities as Emperor's Executor over his natural, altruistically driven paternal instincts.

in the end, after millions died, so it's okay.

People change every moment of their lives, Lucas makes a clear distinction between Anakin, Vader, and redeemed Anakin.

He was a true hero.

In the end "good is a point of view"; from a certain point of view Sidious was a hero for destroying the Jedi.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Not at all. Vitiate has force feats that put him up there with the greatest in the verse. The Hero does not. He has excellent saber feats for repelling Vitiate's lightning though. Just like how Mace managed to corner Sidious in spite of being weaker than he is.

Except that it is kinda mentioned that, "For all the Emperor's power, he was no match for you." In terms of the force, the Emperor himself notes his power as immense, and I believe he does have some impressive force feats. He uses the force to do things like blitz sith lords anyways, he's the complete opposite of, say, the consular. Even then, if you count the dark side ending, he does actually manage to ragdoll Vitiate and release some large pillar on him.

Originally posted by Dolos
He admitted, "I know I'm better than this" in AoTC, he did not believe it was okay to kill Sand People women and children.

That's like Stalin saying "Oops" after killing people, or Hitler. Recognition of guilt with the subsequent refusal to atone and/or learn from it does not equal any kind of good moral standing. Anakin is headstrong, selfish, aggressive, dominating, amoral when it comes to people who have no personal attachment to him, and manipulative. He's a rotten bastard.

Anakin had lost his sense of morality and was purely following orders to eliminate Force sensitives who've been initiated into the Jedi teachings for Palpatine.

Again, would you firebomb a German school to kill Hitler Youth? Would you slash North Korean children born under the current regime?

This isn't an ethical argument; it's apologist rhetoric and it fails to stand to scrutiny.

How is that selfish? It's an intrinsically motivated sense of morality.

It served as an indicator that a part of Anakin remained in that he was unable to put his responsibilities as Emperor's Executor over his natural, altruistically driven paternal instincts.

1. A planet blows up. He doesn't care.

2. He tortures his own daughter unknowingly. Doesn't apologize.

3. He helps the oppression and murder of perhaps millions during the Empire's lifetime.

4. He slaughtered younglings, Jedi unaffiliated with him, and others at the drop of a hat, because Sidious promised him life for his wife.

5. He then suddenly has this need to connect to Luke. So instead of being motivated to turn because of all that wrong doing, he's motivated by a personal connection and a personal need to do right by his own son.

That's my point. Incredibly selfish.

People change every moment of their lives, Lucas makes a clear distinction between Anakin, Vader, and redeemed Anakin.

And padawan Obi-Wan is not the same man as RotS Obi-Wan or ANH Obi-Wan. But the point remains that Vader is self-serving and amoral to those outside of his sphere of personal connection.

In the end "good is a point of view"; from a certain point of view Sidious was a hero for destroying the Jedi.

And Rome 'civilized' the West by killing, enslaving, and conquering much of Europe, Asia Minor, and north Africa.

You can use "from a certain point of view" to establish subjectivism, but not any kind of general moral truth. If I say stealing is wrong, this isn't from a "certain point of view" but from the viewpoint of society, an overwhelming majority. They don't equate.

Anakin is a failed hero, and his moral standing is entirely questionable, which explains why I've had nothing but utter loathing for him since AotC hit the theaters.

Anakin is headstrong, selfish, aggressive, dominating, amoral when it comes to people who have no personal attachment to him, and manipulative. He's a rotten bastard.
He's not manipulative, he's direct. He's not afraid, fight and maybe get get ****ed up in the process, for what he believes. He's courageous in the heat of battle, that's the one admirable trait the character possesses. As much violence he's seen, as much damage as has been done to him after RoTS, he's still fearless in the heat of battle.

He hates himself for all that he's done after becoming Vader, he's so conflicted that he cannot reach his full potential.

Sidious is manipulative, he's a liar, he's a afraid to engage in battles even if the odds of winning those battle are in his favor he'll send someone else to fight for him.

Anakin had no control of his emotions, yes, but he didn't intend to be taken from his mother, thrown into a life of servitude and celibacy, to be brought up as the chosen one, to see the death he saw, to have his limbs amputated or to be burned, worst of all to lose literally everyone that gave a **** about him which mainly his fault. He didn't know right from wrong, and he was irrational, oblivious to the damage he caused, blinded by anger and later so repressed that he developed the Vader persona to cope.

I don't think he was a rotten bastard, I think Sidious was a rotten bastard, I think Vader was a warrior hardened into amorality to cope with his actions. He wasn't nice, he was the "bad father", the "bad lover", the "brutal killer".

After RoTS, no one cared about him, he was a killer, and in the end you have to feel some empathy for the character.

Vader is very similar to Homeric Achilles, greatest warrior of all time, seeking immortality, etc.

TOR vs not TOR is quickly becoming a discussion as toxic as religion or politics.

Originally posted by Based
TOR vs not TOR is quickly becoming a discussion as toxic as religion or politics.
Well the thing is, and I'll admit it, ToR has a gazillion more Force powers than the PT and OT era -- but that is because the OT and PT eras were created first, and the powers featured in ToR are derived from the expanded literature of JA, ToTJ, KoToR, NJO, DN, FoTJ and so on.

Also because TOR is obviously the superior era in terms of ability and PTfags don't want to admit it. awepedo

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also because TOR is obviously the superior era in terms of ability
I just did admit it.

They knew more Force powers.

Force powers are what put a Jedi over a Clone Trooper. I would be erroneous in asserting that a warrior Jedi is better with less of an esoteric arsenal.

Also, Force Drain tm

Awesome. 👆

Sorry, its just been such a big thing for people to argue that the PT era was the best ever in terms of Jedi fighting power that its an automatic assumption in terms of outlook.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Awesome. 👆

Sorry, its just been such a big thing for people to argue that the PT era was the best ever in terms of Jedi fighting power that its an automatic assumption in terms of outlook.

They were; that's all they focused on.

But augmenting the body and mind, and using kinetic Force abilities doesn't leave a lot of defense for more esoteric abilities, as demonstrated when Exar Kun wtf pwns Luke and struggles to win battle against the entire Jedi Academy on Yavin 4 whereas reborn Sidious, far stronger, struggles to beat Luke and Leia.

Then you have Force-enhancing crystals like the Kaiburr Crystal in Splinter of the Mind's Eye, you have Force drain, you have vergences like Nihilus - you have crazy rituals, you have the Nightsisters of Dathomir in TCW and The Courtship of Princess Leia.

But as far as a straight-up fight, without those abilities to use, TOR characters get stomped. I mean, as far over-the-top pure-combat feats in TOR, watch the CW cartoon, read the CW comics, etc.

Only difference is TOR Sith and Jedi are challenged in combat by non-Force sensitives with a lot of tech, powerful Sorcerers are bested by lesser Warrior Sith - whereas in the PT era, Force powers aren't sporadic, even powerful Sith and Jedi still combated each other with kinetic Force powers and the Nightsisters were powerful sorceresses but were afraid to battle directly (Talzin being forced to rely on a Voodoo doll to get back at Tyranus), the hierarchy of Force users was easier to follow.

Sorry.

Originally posted by Dolos
They were; that's all they focused on.

Nooooo, they focused on fighting blaster wielding opponents, in blocking blaster shots etc and in the easy to learn diplomats form. Why would they be so awesome in lightsaber fighting when they hadn't fought lightsaber wielding foes in a thousand years? This is specifically noted to not be the case in numerous texts.

As Moose said, they were specifically not focused on fighting. 😬

Originally posted by Dolos
But as far as a straight-up fight, without those abilities to use, TOR characters get stomped. I mean, as far over-the-top pure-combat feats in TOR, watch the CW cartoon, read the CW comics, etc.

Those examples are exaggerated materials. They don't represent the PT Jedi's actual abilities.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Legend the Ones are firmly above any other being in terms of force power in galactic history.

The Ones have such hype but Dread Masters have shown similar abilities.

Do not mix G-canon ground realities with C-canon ground realities. You will end up being more confused.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Tier 0:
Father
Abeloth
Max Potential Anakin

Tier 0.5:
Son
Daughter
Luke Skywalker

Tier 1:
Sidious
Vitiate
Yoda

Tier 2:
Mace
Dooku
Hero of Tython
Revan
ect.

Tier 3:
The Rest


You think that mortals can match immortals in potential? Think again.

Luke Skywalker almost rivals The Chosen One in potential (confirmed in the official commentary about Episode V movie) and he is far behind Abeloth even at his peak. Therefore, Star Wars has moved beyond the whole "midichlorian" concept.

Also, I wouldn't put Dooku in the league of Hero of Tython and Yoda in the league of Vitiate.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, Sidious>Vitiate. ^.^ You can't just bash away hundreds of accolades claiming their outdated...especially when some were just released as recently as 2011. Don't get me wrong, Vitiate is up their in the Top 3 Sith, but Plagueis ("Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived... -Plagueis Novel), and then Sidious (numerous accolades and feats) ahead of Vitiate. Vitiate's accolades apply to up to himself. If you disagree, explain to me why Malgus's death is not even yet recorded in the book. The encyclopedia ends with the conclusion of the Hero's quest, and does not go into other later eras.
Sidious>Plagueis>Vitiate>Ragnos.

And honestly, G-canon states Sidious as number one various times, while Vitiate's quotes only fall into C-canon. G-canon>C-canon bro.


Sidious is not no. 1 as per G-canon. In addition, his evaluation is based on the content excluding latest developments (SWTOR; Mortis; FOTJ). It is better to consider TIER ranking logic.

Plagueis have been hyped like that in the backcover of the novel (not in "in-universe" writing). Holistically and evidently, he doesn't matches the power of Vitiate and neither Sidious. However, if you are going to rely upon that quote then keep in mind that it kind of nullifies Sidious's official wanking as well. So exercise caution and not stupidity.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Oh wow, you're right. Well while I'm on a hunt for a Lucas quote on Palpatine, here is some G-Canon quotes from Revenge of the Sith Novel:

And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness.
A black hole of the Force.
-Revenge of the Sith

In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.
-Revenge of the Sith

Dooku could not argue. Not only had the Dark Lord introduced Dooku to realms of power beyond his most spectacular fantasies, but Sidious was also a political manipulator so subtle that his abilities might be considered to dwarf even the power of the dark side itself. It was said that whenever the Force closes a hatch, it opens a viewport...and every viewport that had so much as cracked in this past thirteen standard years had found a Dark Lord of the Sith already at the rim, peering in, calculating how best to slip through.
-Revenge of the Sith

Also just as a side note, what is the level of canon for a Star Wars Insider?


Novels are c-canon.

ROTS novel is almost entirely written in hyperbolic language.

I feel like making a SW_LeGenD respect thread where I look through his posting history and collect all of his funny SWVF claims.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I feel like making a SW_LeGenD respect thread where I look through his posting history and collect all of his funny SWVF claims.

Go ahead and try. If a ban follows, do not complain. Similar mistake have happened before, I assure you.

It is OK to disagree on Sci-Fi stuff but it is NOT OK to get personal.

lol

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]The Ones have such hype but Dread Masters have shown similar abilities.

Do not mix G-canon ground realities with C-canon ground realities. You will end up being more confused.

You think that mortals can match immortals in potential? Think again.

Luke Skywalker almost rivals The Chosen One in potential (confirmed in the official commentary about Episode V movie) and he is far behind Abeloth even at his peak. Therefore, Star Wars has moved beyond the whole "midichlorian" concept.

Also, I wouldn't put Dooku in the league of Hero of Tython and Yoda in the league of Vitiate. [/B]

No they are not. If you mention your bullshit ground realities again I will not respond to your posts in this thread. A time after that in another thread and its straight on the ignore list. Its the biggest asspull you've made up. Also don't think I haven't seen your shameful editing of the Sidious page on the Star Wars wiki to satisfy your endless need to secure Vitiate's immortal cock betwixt your lips.

No all that was said was Luke was what Anakin could have been. That does not mean Luke=Anakin in raw power + Force potential. Eh I am 50/50 on the HoT. And Yoda would demolish Vitiate in a straight 1v1.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Also don't think I haven't seen your shameful editing of the Sidious page on the Star Wars wiki

lol really?

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Also don't think I haven't seen your shameful editing of the Sidious page on the Star Wars wiki to satisfy your endless need to secure Vitiate's immortal cock betwixt your lips.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk😖_W_LeGenD
Is this it?