Originally posted by Dolos
He's not manipulative, he's direct.
Anakin manipulates Padme's emotions. Their love has passion and commitment, but lacks true intimacy. He's also got shades of an abusive spouse. You know, get mad, choke a *****.
He's not afraid, fight and maybe get get ****ed up in the process, for what he believes.
Conviction without context is not a virtue. Alexander the Great had conviction that he was the son of a god and it was his destiny to conquer the known world. To this end, among other atrocities, he sacked Thebes and murdered most of the inhabitants, selling the survivors into slavery.
He's courageous in the heat of battle, that's the one admirable trait the character possesses. As much violence he's seen, as much damage as has been done to him after RoTS, he's still fearless in the heat of battle.
This reminds me of that scene in Gladiator.
List of Virtues. Keep in mind the person championing alternate virtues is completely missing the point that the primary virtues listed make someone a moral man, not a great man. You can be great and terrible as well.
He hates himself for all that he's done after becoming Vader, he's so conflicted that he cannot reach his full potential.
Yet the turning point in his 'redemption' is again, that selfish connection with his son. Not those he doomed to die elsewhere. Not the perhaps hundreds of young Jedi he personally killed to protect his wife, whom he later choked anyways.
Sidious is manipulative, he's a liar, he's a afraid to engage in battles even if the odds of winning those battle are in his favor he'll send someone else to fight for him.
And I respect the character more, because no one masquerades him as a good guy. He's an excellent villain, and played by an amazing actor (in fact, in the PT pretty much any good part is played by someone from Scotland, England, Northern Ireland, etc.).
Anakin had no control of his emotions, yes, but he didn't intend to be taken from his mother, thrown into a life of servitude and celibacy, to be brought up as the chosen one, to see the death he saw, to have his limbs amputated or to be burned, worst of all to lose literally everyone that gave a **** about him which mainly his fault. He didn't know right from wrong, and he was irrational, oblivious to the damage he caused, blinded by anger and later so repressed that he developed the Vader persona to cope.
A lot of people have rough childhoods. But a fraction of a percentage of those people go out to massacre whole groups of people including children. His background is not an excuse for his moral failings, and he was surrounded by paragons of social morality; the Jedi explicitly worked to bring peace and harmony to the galaxy, and it was his own failings that prevented him from embracing this lifestyle and instead throwing the entire Order under the bus because one person promised him a vague answer to his imagined problems.
I don't think he was a rotten bastard, I think Sidious was a rotten bastard, I think Vader was a warrior hardened into amorality to cope with his actions. He wasn't nice, he was the "bad father", the "bad lover", the "brutal killer".
I'm pretty sure killing unarmed children is the height of rotten. Everything else he did just cements it. Even his slaughter of the sand people is a dehumanizing event.
After RoTS, no one cared about him, he was a killer, and in the end you have to feel some empathy for the character.
LOLNOPE. I wouldn't feel any empathy for someone who himself lacks empathy.
Vader is very similar to Homeric Achilles, greatest warrior of all time, seeking immortality, etc.
Achilles was an unlikable douche too, putting himself and those personally attached to him above all others. His treatment of Hector's body was vicious considering the honor of the man, and his death was entirely karmic because of how he decided to live his life. I have to give Achilles some credit though: he didn't choke Patroclus after slaughtering the children of the Greeks.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No they are not.
"They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."
An important question is: How would you determine the potential of a being which is not natural (entity or similar)?
In case of mortals, it is understood that their midichlorian count determines their potential in the use of the Force. But even this belief have been contradicted in Star Wars: Darth Plagueis. Darth Plagueis learned through his experiments that midichlorian count is a factor but not the only one in determining one's potential in the use of the Force: he observed some biota which was strong in the Force but had low midichlorian count.
Here is the revelation:
That resolve, Plagueis had learned after more than two years of experimentation on the Yinchorri, was in fact a kind of Force bubble fashioned by the turtle-like alien's limited number of unusually willful midi-chlorians. This suggested that the Yinchorri was actually strong in the Force, despite his pitifully low count. The discovery had come as a breakthrough, and Plagueis was still grappling with the implications.
Darth Plagueis found out that the midichlorians of this species had evolved. So now we have the concept of midichlorian evolution which is the other factor.
Star Wars: Darth Plagueis also touches upon the subject of The Ones and reveals this:
It had been theorized by Jedi and Sith alike that balance between the light and dark sides was actually under the guidance of a group of discorporate entities—the ones called the Celestials, perhaps—who had merged themselves with the Force thousands of generations earlier, and had continued to guide the fate of the galaxy ever since. In effect, a higher order of intermediaries, whose powers were beyond the understanding of mortal beings. But many Sith viewed the notion with disdain, for the theoretical existence of such a group had little bearing on the goal of making the Force subservient to the will of an enlightened elite. Only the Sith understood that sentient life was on the verge of a transformative leap; that through the manipulation of midi-chlorians—or the overthrow of the Forceful group that supervised them—the divide between organic life and the Force could be bridged, and death could be erased from the continuum.
As evidenced by those few Lords who had managed to perpetuate their spirits after physical death—foremost among them Emperor Vitiate, who was said to have lived a thousand years—the ancient Sith had come halfway across that bridge.
Sith are an exception to the claim of The Ones possessing powers beyond the understanding of the mortals. Sith themselves can reach such heights through acquiring unnatural talents.
Dread Masters and Sith Emperor aren't like normal Force-users. Their powers were/are also beyond the understanding of the mortals. This is apparent from the fact that only select few beings have managed to match their talents/abilities. In short, exceptions to the norm do exist.
Heck, the story of Darth Nox is also revealing.
In case of Sith Emperor, their are several hints about his remarkable position in canon sources:
Driven by his quest for immortality and fueled by energy sapped from his victims, the Emperor lived for centuries, amassing insurmountable power, rebuilding his exiled Empire, and plotting his ascension to ultimate rule.
&
The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed.
&
In his relentless pursuit of immortality, the Emperor explored the most sinister, uncharted depths of the dark side. The devastating cost of his actions would remain a mystery for years to come.
&
Over 300 years ago, the great Jedi heroes Revan and Malak stumbled upon long-hidden Sith Empire's capital of Dromund Kaas, and its ruler - a mysterious, almost godlike avatar of the dark side. They argued briefly over whether to alert the Republic and Jedi Council, but Revan was already too consumed by arrogance and anger to consider the possibility of defeat. By the time Revan and Malak approached the Emperor in his throne room, they were already at the precipice of the dark side. It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall. The Jedi succumbed utterly to the Sith leader's domination and returned to the Republic to spark a new conflict: the Jedi Civil War.
Sith Emperor was so powerful and well-versed in the ways of the Force that the Jedi were totally outgunned whenever they would confront him. More in this respect:
The Jedi dispatched scouts and spies to learn as much as they could about this new enemy and its enigmatic leader. However, the Sith Emperor was a master of subterfuge and misdirection, continually thwarting all efforts to uncover his dark secrets.
Most Jedi who ventured into Imperial space vanished without a trace, but a few managed to send back disturbing messages to their Masters. These fragmented communiques showed the Emperor's Jedi pursuers descending into fear, madness, and evil when faced with his power. It quickly became clear the Sith Emperor was more then a brilliant military strategist and cunning political leader. He was a living embodiment of the dark side of the Force who delighted in destroying the minds and spirits of those Jedi who came too close to him.
Even potent Jedi Strike Teams failed:
With Grand Master Satele Shan's support, Master Braga assembles a strike team of the strongest and most resolute Jedi in the order. Their goal is to pinpoint the Emperor's hidden fortress, capture the Sith leader alive, and turn him to the light side. The Jedi do not realize that they have underestimated the true extent of the Emperor's power. It is an error that will cost them dearly.
NOTE: It was only through defection and betrayal of Scourge that the Jedi eventually found a way to undermine the Sith Emperor.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
If you mention your bullshit ground realities again I will not respond to your posts in this thread. A time after that in another thread and its straight on the ignore list. Its the biggest asspull you've made up.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Also don't think I haven't seen your shameful editing of the Sidious page on the Star Wars wiki to satisfy your endless need to secure Vitiate's immortal cock betwixt your lips.
I haven't edited Sidious's Star Wars Wiki article even once. I only briefly participated in the character's talk page. Most of contributions in Star Wars Wiki are in the articles of Revan and Malgus.
Your accusations are utterly baseless. Shame on you.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No all that was said was Luke was what Anakin could have been. That does not mean Luke=Anakin in raw power + Force potential.
Since Anakin is Luke's biological father, it makes sense for Luke to have extraordinary Force potential as well.
It is unlikely for Luke to be 12 times lesser then his father.
Heck, here is an interesting analogy:
Vitiate's biological father is Lord Dramath. And yet Vitiate was a more gifted Force-user then his father.
The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, the boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age of 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate. He amasses an army of Sith followers and turns his back on Imperial politics to hone his skills in the dark side.
Vitiate defeated his father in single combat at the age of 10.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Eh I am 50/50 on the HoT.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And Yoda would demolish Vitiate in a straight 1v1.
Originally posted by Nephthys
That..... is pretty gay, Legend. 😬
What did I do?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
-snip-
Baseless? Dude you participated in the shitshow of a flamewar on the 'is Sidious the strongest Sith' on the starwars wiki. Then you expect me to believe you weren't responsible for at least some of the edit wars that have been happening on that page? 😆
Originally posted by Nephthys
Trying to edit Sidious' wookie page and arguing about who's the most powerful Sith Lord there. Just no.....
Also, their is no shame in participating in debates in any medium. I provided some information that many were unaware of.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Baseless? Dude you participated in the shitshow of a flamewar on the 'is Sidious the strongest Sith' on the starwars wiki. Then you expect me to believe you weren't responsible for at least some of the edit wars that have been happening on that page? 😆
Also, these type of discussions have occurred before in Sidious's talk page.
Check the title "He's not the most powerful Sith" down below.
I have never even started these discussions there. I just checked the pages and gave my 2 cents.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Its a "talk page."Also, these type of discussions have occurred before in Sidious's talk page.
Check the title "He's not the most powerful Sith" down below.
I have never even started these discussions there. I just checked the pages and gave my 2 cents.
God I love catching you in the act of fiercely blowing Vitiate. Dude the sw wiki is a shitstorm. Stay away from it.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Baseless? Dude you participated in the shitshow of a flamewar on the 'is Sidious the strongest Sith' on the starwars wiki. Then you expect me to believe you weren't responsible for at least some of the edit wars that have been happening on that page? 😆
Originally posted by AncientPower
You talking about credibility (or lack thereof) is equivalent to the irony of Ben Carson judging prison inmates. However if you wish to continue humiliating yourself by trolling others and attempting to maintain a facade of respect whilst doing so, then please carry on.