Thanos VS World War Hulk( SLUGFEST)

Originally posted by Insane Titan
no he never gave him new power he removed his emotion/remorse so he wasn't such a pacifist.

He didn't unleash the power he used the power as a external force by riding the crunch energies to kill T&A, what he did wasn't under his own power which was proven by Galactus having to save his life

I can't upload pictures at the moment, but I have the comic right in front of me.

Galactus: "I can heal you. I can renew your will, GRANT YOU NEW POWER, take away the remorse."

Silver Surfer: "No. Give me the will to do what must be done. Let my remorse define me."

Galactus: "So be it."

*Galactus then proceeds to infuse Surfer with power and will to use it.*

***********Skip ahead to Proemial God fight****************

Silver Surfer: "Their power dwarfs mine. I cannot withstand them. They draw power from the crunch, from the energies that birthed them...

The energies that birthed them!

I channel the cosmic energy that is the universe's bounty; Such is the gift given to me by Galactus' touch.

Dare I channel the energies of the crunch, bend the very essence of the creation event to my will?

No...NNNGH...choice. They must be held!

And if the Silver Surfer is consumed in the act...

...So be it!

*He proceeds to unleash the Crunch, killing the Proemial Gods and almost killing himself. Galactus saves him.*

The point is that he has the ability to do this. The fact that it would likely destroy him is besides the point.

Originally posted by carver9
Odekahn...
I'm not going to keep replying to a guy that doesnt know what he is talking about. The disc (don't think you even know what I'm talking about).

I'm well aware that both Hulk and SS were wearing obedience disks and what happened... Are you really going to go there with me again bro?

Originally posted by Odekahn
I'm well aware that both Hulk and SS were wearing obedience disks and what happened... Are you really going to go there with me again bro?

So why bring up something when you knew they were weakened (even though I dont think you knew)? Hulk MAIN power is to amp and he was unable to do it against Surfer, so again, why bring up a fight where Hulk was depleted of his resources?

Originally posted by Badabing
Jax, promoting or advertising another forum/site is against the rules. Please don't do iot again. That should be done over a PM.

Raisen, this is the 2nd thread which I've had to address your off topic posts. The 3rd time will not be a charm.

My bad, Bad. 😛

Don't mean to rock the boat for you guys. Being a Mod is a loveless task at times. This I know.

Is it okay to add a Link and a "feel free to stop by" blurp to my Signature Line?

(That's what Marvel.com decided on prior to their closure, but I've seen site really run the gambit on how "sticky" the topic of discussing potential "competitor sites" is. Some don't mind. Some mind a lot. Some just have rules of engagement, so to speak).

Thanks bud.

- Jax

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Surfer had no access to the power cosmic at all.

Let's see you actually answer that

I'll answer it:

1. Without "Cosmic Power" Surfer would not be a Silver Shiny Herald.
2. Without Cosmic Power, Surfer could not channel energy into a Mace that crackled with enough power to send Hulk and a slew of Warbound flying.
3. Without Cosmic Power, Surfer would have been as week as useless and his normal "non-Herald" natural form allows.

However-

Surfer was not "without" Cosmic Power. It was not drained from him. It was not removed from him.
We know this because he uses it the moment the disk is destroyed.

What Surfer actually suffered from was not "lack" of Cosmic Power.
It was lack of "control" over how he could use his Cosmic Power.

The Power Cosmic is what allows Surfer to strength amp to high-end Class 100 power levels.

The Disk limited Surfer's "application" of his already existing Power Cosmic, and ONLY allowed him to use it for the following purposes:

A. To Self-Amp his strength.
B. To maintain his near indestructible form.
C. To maintain his augmented (by Cosmic Power) speed, stamina, etc.
D. To channel raw damaging energy into his melee attacks.

We can see this clearly from On-Panel interaction.
His weapons glowed with crackling Cosmic Power. Because he was allowed to use it in this manner.
His strength score was EASY Class 100. Because he was allowed to self-augment.
He could tank hits from Hulk that would flat out KILL most Class 100 foes- because his body was still pumping Cosmic Energy like blood through his veins.

If he had been "stripped" of Cosmic Power, he would have been murdered by the moment Hulk hit him.

😎 Think about it.

Originally posted by Malkaedus
I can't upload pictures at the moment, but I have the comic right in front of me.

Galactus: "I can heal you. I can renew your will, [B]GRANT YOU NEW POWER, take away the remorse."

Silver Surfer: "No. Give me the will to do what must be done. Let my remorse define me."

Galactus: "So be it."

*Galactus then proceeds to infuse Surfer with power and will to use it.*

***********Skip ahead to Proemial God fight****************

Silver Surfer: "Their power dwarfs mine. I cannot withstand them. They draw power from the crunch, from the energies that birthed them...

The energies that birthed them!

I channel the cosmic energy that is the universe's bounty; Such is the gift given to me by Galactus' touch.

Dare I channel the energies of the crunch, bend the very essence of the creation event to my will?

No...NNNGH...choice. They must be held!

And if the Silver Surfer is consumed in the act...

...So be it!

*He proceeds to unleash the Crunch, killing the Proemial Gods and almost killing himself. Galactus saves him.*

The point is that he has the ability to do this. The fact that it would likely destroy him is besides the point. [/B]

Are you just trolling ? It wasn't his own power it was sheer will and determination that allowed him to continue to use the crunch energies, fact remains without the crunch energies Surfer would of got stomped again by T&A, and as Surfer has no means of ever using the crunch energies again proves it was a external force and not a power up

Originally posted by jaxthejester
I'll answer it:

1. Without "Cosmic Power" Surfer would not be a Silver Shiny Herald.
2. Without Cosmic Power, Surfer could not channel energy into a Mace that crackled with enough power to send Hulk and a slew of Warbound flying.
3. Without Cosmic Power, Surfer would have been as week as useless and his normal "non-Herald" natural form allows.

However-

Surfer was not "without" Cosmic Power. It was not drained from him. It was not removed from him.
We know this because he uses it the moment the disk is destroyed.

What Surfer actually suffered from was not "lack" of Cosmic Power.
It was lack of "control" over how he could use his Cosmic Power.

The Power Cosmic is what allows Surfer to strength amp to high-end Class 100 power levels.

The Disk limited Surfer's "application" of his already existing Power Cosmic, and ONLY allowed him to use it for the following purposes:

A. To Self-Amp his strength.
B. To maintain his near indestructible form.
C. To maintain his augmented (by Cosmic Power) speed, stamina, etc.
D. To channel raw damaging energy into his melee attacks.

We can see this clearly from On-Panel interaction.
His weapons glowed with crackling Cosmic Power. Because he was allowed to use it in this manner.
His strength score was EASY Class 100. Because he was allowed to self-augment.
He could tank hits from Hulk that would flat out KILL most Class 100 foes- because his body was still pumping Cosmic Energy like blood through his veins.

If he had been "stripped" of Cosmic Power, he would have been murdered by the moment Hulk hit him.

😎 Think about it.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...Samson admitted it was a sucker shot. WWH didn't sucker shot Herc at all. Also, Hulk seemed calm during that scene, no rage at all. Don't consider that a good example my friend. What else do you have?

If I don't agree with you, that doesn't mean I am trolling.

Meh. Why even bring up Samson?

WWHulk took him down with a single hit. It was early Savage Hulk that Samson dropped WAAAAY back in the day. Nothing to do with WWHulk's power level.

And as far as Herc- he admitted himself on-panel that Hulk could have killed him if Hulk wanted to.

And Hulk stated clearly in HotM that, even when he faced Sentry, he was still actively holding back power.

These arguments against Hulk are just meant to work you up, Carver.
Ignore them and wait for REAL contentions.

So far there is just a lot of anti-Hulk rhetoric. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Surfer flat out stated the control disc stopped his access to the power cosmic

And your brain can Flat Out tell you that this is not possible.

As Surfer clearly DID have Cosmic Power during the fight.
For all of the reasons listed.

Surfer had no access to how he "used" his Cosmic Power. That is all that occurred.

If you strip away his Cosmic Power all-together, you get a dead sad little alien.

Like I said- THINK about it. 😉

It cracks me up that people think Surfer can boost his stats to high end Class 100 by virtue of his good looks.

Seriously. Try sending a Tweet to Pak. He answers them. I've chatted with him a few times. He puts nonsense like this to bed on a regular basis.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk was calm during that instance. It isn't the same. I understand if someone roll with the punch is different than someone standing there taking the hits dead on but Herc has high Herald durability and Hulk being able to kill him in a couple of licks while holding back is an insane ft.

Hulk was actually very annoyed and had previous battle anger. So no he wasn't.

Only if he allows himself to be struck like that though. Hulk's initial charging slam on Hercules dealt less damage than his backhand on a limp Hercules. So yeah, it's impressive but the notion that Hulk's walking around with the power to 3 piece high heralds is false to say the least. And that's why. It shouldn't be spread like a fact, because it's not and the way you word it, it's exactly what you're doing.

Originally posted by jaxthejester
And your brain can Flat Out tell you that this is not possible.

As Surfer clearly DID have Cosmic Power during the fight.
For all of the reasons listed.

Surfer had no access to how he "used" his Cosmic Power. That is all that occurred.

If you strip away his Cosmic Power all-together, you get a dead sad little alien.

Like I said- THINK about it. 😉

Surfer stores The Power Cosmic in his body, they are the reserves he usually works with. He also recharges (and amps) from Power Cosmic in the environment and in space. That's how he operates.

For some reason (I'm not sure if it was explained when they went into the whole Old Power story), the wormhole that leads to Sakaar cuts out access to The Power Cosmic. And when Surfer went through it, he too lost all access to the ambient Power Cosmic.

Surfer was using his reserves, when he was fighting Hulk _and_ the Warbound. And he was killing them all, Hulk apart.

It wasn't a fair fight and in no way was it indicative of their respective abilities, as Hulk was weakened whilst on Sakaar too.

I honestly wouldn't put Hercules at "high Herald" durability to begin with (just being honest).

But that said; Pak stated himself that Herc would not have lasted long against WWHulk. He also clumped OF Thor and Superman into the group of characters that he designed WWHulk to be stronger than.

The interviews are still out there on Google. Take a look.

Normal angry Hulk was able to stalemate Thor for 40+ years.

Thor was able to drop Surfer more times than not in their many battles.

WWHulk is FAR stronger than "normal" angry Hulk.

Thus logic dictates that the same "stalemate" power level used against Thor would likewise be amped to FAR higher levels.
(I.E.- If "normal" Hulk can stalemate Thor in a HTH fight, and WWHulk is far more powerful than normal Hulk, then logic dictates that WWHulk would be stronger than the exact same Thor that "normal" Hulk was an even match with *again- speaking in HTH terms*).

By that same line of logic; since we know that Hercules can (and has) beaten Thor in pure HTH combat, and Thor has taken down Surfer with his basic "normal Thor" striking power.

So why is hard to accept that an uber-Boosted Hulk could drop Hercules or Surfer in HTH combat?

When Hulk already has decades of history whooping Herc's butt and stalemating Thor? And Thor has decades of history stalemating Herc and getting the better of Surfer (via Hammer to the head raw striking power).

The numbers all add up. Just do the math. And look at Herc's face after taking three hits from Hulk. He looked like purple jelly. And Herc stated that Hulk could have killed him if Hulk wanted to do so.

WWHulk was a BEAST.

He was beyond the likes of Herc (and by virtue of paired combat analysis, he was also "physically" beyond Thor- who is a virtual physical clone of Herc when you take away his energy powers).

😮‍💨 Embrace it. Love it. Buy a Hulk poster and hang it on your wall.

You'll sleep better with Big Green watching over you.

Originally posted by janus77
As much as I like Hulk (and love that he bullies Thor), that whole Sakaar thing was Surfer at his absolute weakest since ... Well, back when Galactus first banished him to Earth.

Surfer stores The Power Cosmic in his body, they are the reserves he usually works with. He also recharges (and amps) from Power Cosmic in the environment and in space. That's how he operates.

For some reason (I'm not sure if it was explained when they went into the whole Old Power story), the wormhole that leads to Sakaar cuts out access to The Power Cosmic. And when Surfer went through it, he too lost all access to the ambient Power Cosmic.

Surfer was using his reserves, when he was fighting Hulk _and_ the Warbound. And he was killing them all, Hulk apart.

It wasn't a fair fight and in no way was it indicative of their respective abilities, as Hulk was weakened whilst on Sakaar too.

Well said.

Now this lad has a bit of logic to back his posts.

I like you. You get a cookie. (I'll mail it to you).

Gotta run kids. Be back in a bit.

Surfer goes easy on Thor, always. Thor rarely holds back, as he's a bit of a cock and very very conceited. If Surfer truly wanted to kill Thor, I don't think Thor would have any chance of survival.

Surfer just suffers from the same weakness that Galactus does, Marvel just don't really care or know what to do with these characters.

Originally posted by jaxthejester
And your brain can Flat Out tell you that this is not possible.

As Surfer clearly DID have Cosmic Power during the fight.
For all of the reasons listed.

Surfer had no access to how he "used" his Cosmic Power. That is all that occurred.

If you strip away his Cosmic Power all-together, you get a dead sad little alien.

Like I said- THINK about it. 😉

Originally posted by Insane Titan
*sigh* it's a figure speech, he gave him the power to be more ruthless in battle this much was explained when he fought Ravenous and proven even more so when Lord Marvell pens him with one blast that he wasn't more powerful than Thanos when Thanos shit stomped Lord Marvel with ease.

Are you just trolling ? It wasn't his own power it was sheer will and determination that allowed him to continue to use the crunch energies, fact remains without the crunch energies Surfer would of got stomped again by T&A, and as Surfer has no means of ever using the crunch energies again proves it was a external force and not a power up

It is quite a stretch to say that Galactus, of all people, was using a figure of speech there. Especially when he is describing, in list format, what he is about to do to Surfer.

I never claimed he had the power of the crunch within him to use, but he did have the power to open a rift and channel the crunch as a weapon. It's not like he pulled the crunch energy from the Proemial Gods and threw it back at them and killed them with it. If he did, that would actually be more powerful than channelling it through a rift. What's that? That thing that makes you stronger becomes your doom simply because I will it? That would make him the most overpowered character ever...

And I am definitely going to need to see some on panel explanation of why he couldn't do the same thing again. Fear of killing himself might prevent it, but as far as mechanically, I don't see why not.

Even if hypothetically, there wasn't an actual power infusion just an awakening of sorts, Surfer is clearly doing things way beyond the scope of what he was doing before annihilation. In other words: power up.

Originally posted by Malkaedus
Unless he got depowered again and I missed it, I would say Surfer is above Thanos ever since his power up in Annihilation.

Originally posted by quanchi112
😂

It is completely possible I missed events since then. I don't read comics as much as I used to. Did something happen?