Alternative Battle: Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. Dooku and Grievous

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I'm pretty sure Gillard has stated that he discussed the levels with Lucas.

So do I. As I remember, the main reason for those levels, was that Nick wanted to know, how good are those guys, compare one to another. So it was Nick's idea, but George ranked them.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Interesting. I retract my statement. That's awesome that Anakin is confirmed as a 9 even when he's not "intehzone"

I guess, it's about Zonakin. Or Anakin who is using dark side.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Considering Grievous is not Force sensitive, the effectiveness of TK against him doesn't reveal anything new that we didn't already know, for the same reason why we shouldn't shit bricks that Vader can ragdoll Han Solo and Chewie together, or Sidious could break Boba Fett's neck. Muggles don't have a defense, it's axiomatic.

👆

As usual, good points made. It's more like Hunger Games ranking or something. Just a number, not a revelation on its own and a mere facet of the other factors in a fight.

Thank you very much.

Yes, that's the kind of thing I meant.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
And yeah, another Anderson was an author. Forget his first name. Kevin J Anderson? Idk.

That's right. Kevin J. Anderson wrote the "Tales of the Jedi" comics and the Jedi Academy Trilogy. He's a great author who gave us Exar Kun, Vodo-Siosk Baas etc.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Erm, no. That's not correct. Bob Anderson is the Olympic professional fencer who worked as swordsmaster/Vader double for the OT. He's never given us any power charts but if he did they'd be just his opinion without canon material corroborating them.

Bob Anderson was incredible. He also worked on Highlander: The Series.

Anakin>Dooku

Obi-Wan>Grevious

War's over.

Originally posted by Oneness
Anakin>Dooku

Obi-Wan>Grevious

War's over.

Except Anakin is not> Dooku. Out of the several times they've dueled Anakin won...once. It just happens Dooku never once wanted to kill Skywalker.

Dooku has always went for the kill in TCW.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Dooku has always went for the kill in TCW.

When exactly? When he let Anakin escape in TCWs movie? Or when he blasted Anakin away and had him defenseless when he kidnapped Palpatine? Or when he intentionally captured him in exchange for Grievous.

Filoni has said in an interview that Palpatine's plan was to have Anakin fight in TCW to see if he could survive. If he couldn't then he wouldn't be a worthy apprentice. So obviously he would have Dooku go all-out to test him.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Filoni has said in an interview that Palpatine's plan was to have Anakin fight in TCW to see if he could survive. If he couldn't then he wouldn't be a worthy apprentice. So obviously he would have Dooku go all-out to test him.

Bullshit. Palpatine saved Anakin's ass. When they dueled in that godawful Episode where Grievous lost to Gungans, Dooku could have killed him.

link

The only time Dooku tried to capture Skywalker without killing him was when Grievous was captured. And that time he required aid from several magnaguards.

In the Clone War movie Dooku clearly goes for the kill when Skywalker is floored.

Concerning the "Crisis on Naboo" fightFiloni said in his end of season 4 Forcecast interview that he doesn't believe that Palpatine would step in to save Skywalkers life. Because ifSkywalker dies then he wasn't good enough for Palpatine.

yep that's what i was referring to.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The only time Dooku tried to capture Skywalker without killing him was when Grievous was captured. And that time he required aid from several magnaguards.

In the Clone War movie Dooku clearly goes for the kill when Skywalker is floored.

Concerning the "Crisis on Naboo" fightFiloni said in his end of season 4 Forcecast interview that he doesn't believe that Palpatine would step in to save Skywalkers life. Because ifSkywalker dies then he wasn't good enough for Palpatine.

So why didn't Dooku capitalize on Anakin being KO'd by his lightning/TK in "Crisis on Naboo"?

In the Clone War Movie he also lets Skywalker escape.

It's been awhile since I've seen that movie, but, didn't the final Dooku/Anakin fight climax with Dooku running for his life?

Originally posted by Tzeentch
It's been awhile since I've seen that movie, but, didn't the final Dooku/Anakin fight climax with Dooku running for his life?

No it climaxes with Dooku on his ass because he taunted Anakin about Asoka then Anakin running away to save her. But Dooku could have just gone in for the TK.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So why didn't Dooku capitalize on Anakin being KO'd by his lightning/TK in "Crisis on Naboo"?

Because he wasn't KO'd. Just floored and a bit dazed with his Lightsaber off. But also shot pretty far away. By the time Dooku made it to Skywalker he could easily have been back up again. In TCW Movie, Skywalker was floored and disarmed by Dooku, then Dooku went for the kill, but Skywalker still got to his Lightsaber and defended himself in time, despite Dooku being much closer in that fight. Also in "Crisis on Naboo" Dooku was under the pretense that he's trying to escape with Palpatine as his hostage.

Don't get me wrong, I think Dooku has had the edge against Skywalker in all their Clone War fights due to his superior force powers. But it is just an edge. Anakin and Dooku have been portrayed as near equals throughout TCW.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Except Anakin is not> Dooku. Out of the several times they've dueled Anakin won...once.

And by that one point, after season 6 of TCW, by Dark Horse's Brothers and Arms and Obsession; Anakin's Force power level had doubled. Writers stated Anakin was on a higher level, like 7 I think, as a Jedi than Obi-wan. As per Anakin and Obi-wan's battle of heroes in ROTS and the stalemate Force push, Obi-wan was obviously being amped by the Will of the Force - or there was an explosion of Force pushes like the explosion between Yoda's Force repel and Sidious' Force lightning. Either way, that entire fight Obi-wan lived because he able to flee and Anakin could not trap him in one spot like he did Dooku, Obi-wan kept slipping away - it was very reminiscent of TFU II and how Starkiller II couldn't break Vader's defense despite his superior Force power level. Vader repeatedly broke Obi-wan's defenses, later on in that fight Vader broke them more frequently, constantly getting successful hits on Obi-wan before the latter ran away again. Until Vader made the leap that left him wide open and unable to defend himself. As a cyborg he would not have made that same mistake.

It just happens Dooku never once wanted to kill Skywalker.

Yes he did, it was either Anakin died or Dooku did, Palpatine was trying to see if Anakin would be a more suitable apprentice, like Vader vs Luke in RoTS - except Palpatine never said Luke was powerful in retrospect, he claimed Luke's Force rage him powerful but he was clearly beating Vader before that, whereas Palpatine claimed that Anakin was more powerful in the Force than Dooku bar none.

RoTJ Luke>Vader>Obi-wan, Courtship of Princess Leia went down not too long after that fight with Vader; in that novel Luke literally hovers safely to the ground, along with his X-Wing after it got shot down by a Tie Fighter - that is a TK feat I doubt Obi-wan could replicate. Remember that by RoTJ Luke is 23, Anakin is also 23 as of RoTS. Luke's been trained well enough to hold his own against Vader, and to construct his own lightsaber. In both Marvel's Star Wars and in the new Dark Horse's Star Wars comic series (Between ANH and RoTJ) Luke demonstrates he learned as much as he could from Obi-wan and his journals, even in the Empire and Rebellion novels Luke demonstrates that his powers progress super-fast. It is safe to say that Luke was on par with Vader by RoTJ, as much so as Starkiller was in TFU - and that Luke's Jedi training from Yoda himself is reminiscent, albeit somewhat less complete, to Starkiller's training under Vader.

I have this theory that Anakin will reach that double-season 5 power level by season 6 when he faces Maul. If he does. Maybe Sidious will use Maul to test Anakin to see where he ranks next to Dooku, a prelude to the battle on the Invisible Hand.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
[B]Because he wasn't KO'd. Just floored and a bit dazed with his Lightsaber off. But also shot pretty far away. By the time Dooku made it to Skywalker he could easily have been back up again. In TCW Movie, Skywalker was floored and disarmed by Dooku, then Dooku went for the kill, but Skywalker still got to his Lightsaber and defended himself in time, despite Dooku being much closer in that fight. Also in "Crisis on Naboo" Dooku was under the pretense that he's trying to escape with Palpatine as his hostage.

But the point is Dooku could have ragdolled him. The thing is that, every time they've dueled it was under the pretext that Skywalker was not the primary objective. If Palpatine ever gave Dooku the order to kill him it'd be game over.

Don't get me wrong, I think Dooku has had the edge against Skywalker in all their Clone War fights due to his superior force powers. But it is just an edge. Anakin and Dooku have been portrayed as near equals throughout TCW.

Near equals in lightsaber combat? Sure, although Dooku taking both Kenobi and Skywalker on the Invisible Hand then seems even more impressive. Force wise though the Count is on a different level.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Force wise though the Count is on a different level.

In an exaggerated comic.