1. 👆 Smoothies rock.
2. Please show me where I said I was theist.
3. Shake, you laugh at a lot of things, warranted or not.
Case in point, your response to Lucien in a thread responded to just a few minutes ago:
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No wonder the Pope wasn't too keen to criticize them. He foresaw God's plan of the Nazis killing 1/3 of all the Jews so that the Allied victors would feel bad and give them their homeland back. Brilliant, Lord, just brilliant! And so kind and merciful of you too. Millions dead so your useless prophecy could be fulfilled--what a kind and loving Lord you are.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Those were the bad Jews.
(note: to people too stupid to realize what sarcasm is. This is sarcasm.)
In response to your previous post:
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
bluewaterriderDid you know that Nam-myoho-renge-kyo has a meaning?
Did you know there was an extensive philosophy behind it?
Did you know it was current and applicable to every day life?
Shaky, don't you understand that Christians and Muslims and followers of other faiths LIKEWISE believe that their religion is current and applicable to every day life?
Don't you understand that there is often extensive philosophy behind the things THEY practice and do as well?
That THEIR rituals likewise have meaning to THEM?
In answer to your question, though,
No, beyond being reassuring, something perhaps to soothe and relieve stress,
I do NOT know how your Lotus Sutra is current and applicable to everyday life.
I imagine the focus on chanting is a disguised breathing exercise, and also a friendship-fostering group bonding exercise.
These things all by themselves can, and often do, have real world benefits.
In terms of a philosophy however?
A guiding principle?
I don't see how it would be much good at doing much save PREVENTING further educational development by a practitioner.
You tell us your FUNDAMENTAL DOCTRINE of your faith tells you to look for no answer outside of yourself.
How can you learn anything NEW in that case?
If one of your beliefs about the world is wrong, how can it ever be changed?
What would ever challenge your view that you would not simply dismiss?
That you would not simply, LITERALLY, chant away?
Seriously.
How do new thoughts or teachings enter the head of a truly devout practitoner of your faith?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
1. 👆 Smoothies rock.2. Please show me where I said I was theist.
3. Shake, you laugh at a lot of things, warranted or not.
Case in point, your response to Lucien in a thread responded to just a few minutes ago:
That note was for you!
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Shaky, don't you understand that Christians and Muslims and followers of other faiths LIKEWISE believe that their religion is current and applicable to every day life?
What do they have to do with "la la la"? That is what I was talking about.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Don't you understand that there is often extensive philosophy behind the things THEY practice and do as well?
That THEIR rituals likewise have meaning to THEM?
And what does that have to do with "la la la"?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
In answer to your question, though,
No, beyond being reassuring, something perhaps to soothe and relieve stress,
I do NOT know how your Lotus Sutra is current and applicable to everyday life.
Perhaps you should learn.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I imagine the focus on chanting is a disguised breathing exercise, and also a friendship-fostering group bonding exercise.
You should try it with 100 people. It is the equivalent of what Christians would call the holy spirit.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
These things all by themselves can, and often do, have real world benefits.In terms of a philosophy however?
A guiding principle?
I don't see how it would be much good at doing much save PREVENTING further educational development by a practitioner.
You don't know anything. Do you often have opinions about things you know nothing about?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You tell us your FUNDAMENTAL DOCTRINE of your faith tells you to look for no answer outside of yourself.
A bit twisted, but basically correct.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
How can you learn anything NEW in that case?
How do I lean something if I blame everyone else for the problems in my life. I can only learn when I take responsibility for all things in my life. And of course, reading books is also good.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
If one of your beliefs about the world is wrong, how can it ever be changed?
You answer this question first.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
What would ever challenge your view that you would not simply dismiss?
That you would not simply, LITERALLY, chant away?
No one chants anything away. You make a false statement and then I current you, but you keep going with that incorrect statement.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Seriously.
How do new thoughts or teachings enter the head of a truly devout practitoner of your faith?
You answer first.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What do they have to do with "la la la"?
That is what I was talking about.... And what does that have to do with "la la la"?
Your original question was the following:
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What does "la la la" have behind it?
The answer to your question is "La La La usually has lots of volume behind it".
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You should try [chanting] with 100 people.
Which apparently is what "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" has behind it, too.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You ... know [little].
Do you often have opinions about things you know [little] about?
Yes.
That's true for most people if we're being honest.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Your original question was the following:
The answer to your question is "La La La usually has lots of volume behind it".
Which apparently is what "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" has behind it, too.
Yes.
That's true for most people if we're being honest.
Ignorance is the enemy. You know nothing of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, but you would equate it to blusteriness. I hope you are not a superstitious man, because a superstitious man would not do that. I mean, you wouldn’t mess with Voodoo, would you?
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonIgnorance is the enemy.
You know nothing of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, but you would equate it to blusteriness.
I hope you are not a superstitious man, because a superstitious man would not do that.
I mean, you wouldn’t mess with Voodoo, would you?
Frankly, what you're alluding to is the other thing renewing my interest in the Bible and religion, whether it shouldn't become a regular part of my life.
I consider that you yourself say that you were once a Christian.
I consider what you were like when you first came to KMC, judging by your posts from years back.
Definitely a kinder-seeming and more sincere man than the one that has presented himself to me my initial months on this forum.
Then I consider what kind of philosophy you're espousing.
It echoes eerily of the following ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Timothy 4:1-2 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I've never understood talking about the grace and understanding and empathy of God... who sends disbelievers to a place of eternal torment. No matter which religion, it just seems so bizarre."God loves you unconditionally... except when you don't believe. Then he punishes you unconditionally."
Now, I can appreciate that, but then the comparison is problematic because unlike flunking, Hell is not something that's reversible, and a good teacher would do all in their power to help a flunked student get back on track and take the course again successfully.
Tl;dr: God's pedagogy SUX, and he's never there for his office hours, just his TAs.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Frankly, what you're alluding to is the other thing renewing my interest in the Bible and religion, whether it shouldn't become a regular part of my life.
I consider that you yourself say that you were once a Christian.
I consider what you were like when you first came to KMC, judging by your posts from years back.
Definitely a kinder-seeming and more sincere man than the one that has presented himself to me my initial months on this forum.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Then I consider what kind of philosophy you're espousing.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
It echoes eerily of the following ...
…(removed for clarity)…
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was here to tell you how stupid you are ...
You're nearly always here to tell me that.
Maybe you could share something good for a change.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I really don’t know what you read.
I think you didn’t read anything.
I think you made it up.
I'm not in the habit of making things up.
You can see the Shakyamunison of yesteryear was kinder and more patient toward people with your first and three other random posts:
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
This is the first forum that I have ever been on (I have seen some but never got involved). I will probable make mistakes, so, your forgiveness is requested ahead of time. This post is a little late; I jumped right in and started giving my point of view. Only now did I even read the welcome message, so, better late than never.Hello to everyone.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
"Why Great Minds Can't Grasp Consciousness" a great article on LiveScience.comhttp://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050808_human_consciousness.html
Please go read it, and come back here and give your comments.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'm sorry 😮I didn't know how I should make this thread. It is a long article, so I didn't want repost it here.
General question to any one:
What should I have done to make this thread better?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then don't post here... 😠Sorry, but this kind of belligerence gets me mad, your opinion matters here and we are just talking, ok?
Early Shaky introduces, eager to show himself friendly, is very polite, apologizes for imposing on other people's time, asked for suggestions to make things better, communication easier, apologizes for being too harsh, reassures people that their opinions matter ...
It's almost a shock to realize I'm talking to that same person.
Something seems to have happened to take the bulk of that cordiality, earnestness and friendliness out of you.
I'm just not yet sure what.
Maybe I just haven't stumbled upon early posts that reflect a negative portrait of you yet.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was pissed off!
I hated Christians.
It was Christianity that had taken everything away from me!
Assuming you felt betrayed by someone close to you who was a Christian, this is probably not entirely true.
I don't remember enough from my psychology courses; people who have gone through loss, people who are feeling sad, they generally seek to connect with others, feel empathy with others, help out others who are hurting.
People who are angry lash out.
I see more of the first in Early Shaky than the latter.
But, again, I've only seen early posts from you that reflect the friendly personal Shake; I haven't encountered an unfriendly early version of you yet.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You're nearly always here to tell me that.Maybe you could share something good for a change.
I'm not in the habit of making things up.
You can see the Shakyamunison of yesteryear was kinder and more patient toward people with your first and three other random posts:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=349837
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=360291
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=358587
Early Shaky introduces, eager to show himself friendly, is very polite, apologizes for imposing on other people's time, asked for suggestions to make things better, communication easier, apologizes for being too harsh, reassures people that their opinions matter ...
It's almost a shock to realize I'm talking to that same person.
Something seems to have happened to take the bulk of that cordiality, earnestness and friendliness out of you.
I'm just not yet sure what.Maybe I just haven't stumbled upon early posts that reflect a negative portrait of you yet.
Assuming you felt betrayed by someone close to you who was a Christian, this is probably not entirely true.
I don't remember enough from my psychology courses; people who have gone through loss, people who are feeling sad, they generally seek to connect with others, feel empathy with others, help out others who are hurting.
People who are angry lash out.
I see more of the first in Early Shaky than the latter.
But, again, I've only seen early posts from you that reflect the friendly personal Shake; I haven't encountered an unfriendly early version of you yet.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You call JIA (JesusIsAlive) a "[b]self-interested bigot" in the same post where you admit your biggest problem was that he was trying to reach out to others by making 15+ threads?[/b]
If they were truly selfless people, they'd be at homeless shelters or in third world countries making things better for others, not spending hours on end spamming links, videos, and brain-dead religious arguments ad nauseam to vocally uninterested parties.
I could give you credit for this statement if there was any indication that either were genuinely good people who did something other than spend countless hours here trying to win over the silent masses. I can't imagine that many people who invisibly surf KillerMovies.com forums just to find Jesus/Allah, but okay.
Second, lilb pretty much dispelled the idea that eninn was doing what he was doing for anyone else's benefit. He doesn't respond to challenges and he just repeats religious doctrine and rhetoric like this is his blog. In a discussion forum, someone who pretty much pretends like others don't exist is pretty rude. I know, a shocking notion to be sure.
So yes, when people just go on and on about how their religion is the only one and are intolerant of beliefs other than their own and can't even acknowledge the weak position from which they argue, they do come off as self-interested bigots. Surprise.
You deride him and eninn for thinking Christianity and Islam are relevant?
Absolutely. Are you asserting that their religions are relevant in any context other than purely 'social tradition'? Do you think the way to the future is paved by people who think science is a fraud and gays are not people and women should be subservient?
When is the last time you attacked a NON-Abrahamic religion like Buddhism on the philosophical grounds of it being illogical or anti-scientific?
I'd have to first find a non-Abrahamic person on KMC who derided science from the comfort and safety of their computer, who is both immune to common sense and irony.
Feel free to produce such a person if you have one in mind.
Are they so "relevant" they escape your notice?
The majority of active posters here include regulars who don't preach, a Buddhist who respects science and doesn't tell me I'm going to suffer for eternity for not being a Buddhist in 15+ threads, you the Abrahamic White Knight, and some regulars who flit in from time to time.
Where are these unwashed non-Abrahamic science-hating preachers?
Your defense of Shakyamunison is that he limits himself to one thread?
Sarcasm escapes you easily, doesn't it?
Have you considered that he attacks other religions in nearly all others?
By other religions you mean fundamental Christians and Muslims? Those poor souls?
Shaky doesn't go out of his way to demean other ways of thought; he just has a knee-jerk reaction to fundamentalist Christians because he's been one before. I'm not sure why you think it's okay for ChristLovur57 and AllahIsKay43 have a blank check to tell other people they are bad for not believing, but if Shaky calls them out on their asshattery, he is a bully.
Mind boggling.
Have you noticed that nearly half of the most recent responses trying to refute Christianity threads on the front page of this forum are his?
Yeah, but generally if they're not his they're mine. We're both stuck at work with long lulls and therefore get bored easily.
Have you stopped to consider that he makes the brand of Buddhism he wants to promote nearly immune to attack and protected by mods by essentially making it a "respect" thread to the Nichiren Buddhist movement?
I've never even bothered with it. Shaky has never tried to convert me, he has never made a judgment call about me because I don't believe in his religion, and we both talk amiably about a lot of things, including watching Cosmos this past Sunday. You might like that episode; it has Bruno being burned for asserting something that Abrahamics don't agree with.
Who has taken him to task even to the small extent I have, demanding that he answer how his religion is not the adult equivalent of sticking his hands in his ears and chanting
"La la la ... I can't hear you ... "?
The fact that you demand respect for Islam/Christianity and yet deride him endlessly about something he doesn't use as a mirror to judge other people is pretty stupid on your part. The fact that you are ignorant to his religion whereas both he and I are very well versed in Abrahamic religions is also a disparity.
Replace "La la la, I can't hear you" with the phrase
"Nam-myoho-renge-kyo".
You:
OMG RESPECT ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS THEY ARE REACHING PEOPLE AND MAKING A DIFFERENCE.
LOL UR LANGUAGE IS LALALA LOL MORON!
Are you really this dense?
What exactly, in real world practical terms is objectively DIFFERENT about that chant, versus a child trying to drown out the voice of other adults?
I don't know, what's different between a child believing in the Easter Bunny and an adult believing in Jesus Christ?
Spoiler:
The child has an excuse.
PS: I made you a meme...
Originally posted by Stealth MooseI'd have to first find a non-Abrahamic person on KMC who derided science from the comfort and safety of their computer, who is both immune to common sense and irony.
Feel free to produce such a person if you have one in mind.
I don't believe he's saying this because of Buddhism though, rather it's just some weird notion he has.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
While he hasn't exactly "derided" science, Shakya (a self-avowed Buddhist) has made comments to the effect that he believes scientists and average people treat science dogmatically, which suggests he doesn't really understand the scientific method or how science is different from religion and philosophy.I don't believe he's saying this because of Buddhism though, rather it's just some weird notion he has.
That is a weird notion.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
While he hasn't exactly "derided" science, Shakya (a self-avowed Buddhist) has made comments to the effect that he believes scientists and average people treat science dogmatically, which suggests he doesn't really understand the scientific method or how science is different from religion and philosophy.I don't believe he's saying this because of Buddhism though, rather it's just some weird notion he has.
This does not make any sense to me. What do you mean by "believes scientists and average people treat science dogmatically".
As of now, based on face value, "believes scientists and average people treat science dogmatically" is not something I would ever say. Perhaps you have misunderstood me.
...and to be honest, I do have a of weird notions. It come with being human.
Indeed, I haven't seen anything from you that suggests you think science is bogus, Shaky. That being said, Omega has always struck me as a smart guy, informed, and non-aggressive in our discussions, so I am not suspicious of his observations nor jumping to assume he is utterly in the wrong. Perhaps he misunderstood you or poor word choice undermined your intent. Either way, pretty sure watching Cosmos invalidates you from being a science-hating fundie, which was the whole point.
But BWR will leap on that like flies on shit, have no doubt, and ignore all the wondrous points I did make above.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
If they were truly selfless people, they'd be at homeless shelters or in third world countries making things better for others, not spending hours on end spamming links, videos, and brain-dead religious arguments ad nauseam to vocally uninterested parties.I could give you credit for this statement if there was any indication that either were genuinely good people who did something other than spend countless hours here trying to win over the silent masses. I can't imagine that many people who invisibly surf KillerMovies.com forums just to find Jesus/Allah, but okay.
1. You don't know that eninn and JIA don't spend their time at homeless shelters or doing good things for others.
2. You ignore the fact that, in the eyes of people of proselytizing religions, what you call "spamming" is considered an actual good.
It is preaching the Word to an audience where they are at.
3. Your giving me credit or not is all but meaningless.
What proof is there that YOU do anything people would consider worthwhile? What do YOU contribute that makes life better for others?
What thing of tangible benefit would your granting of "credit" to me confer?
4. Inspiration and spreading of knowledge isn't dependent on people actively searching for inspiration and knowledge.
It helps, but it isn't a requirement. Not in most cases, at least.
Nearly the whole of advertising is based on that fact, if you want a proof.
@bluewaterrider
If you were at a nice restaurant, and a man got up and started quoting Shakespeare, would you think that was a good thing? After all, Shakespeare is one of the best writers of all time, and we all really should know more Shakespeare.
Just because something is good does not mean it is appropriate.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
1. You don't know that eninn and JIA [b]don't spend their time at homeless shelters or doing good things for others.[/b]
No, because eninn is like talking to a Muslim ATM and JIA, despite being a member for years, has never told us about his personal good deeds and equates belief with moral goodness.
Do you have some evidence to the contrary, or just being contrary?
2. You ignore the fact that, in the eyes of people of proselytizing religions, what you call "spamming" is considered an actual good.
It is preaching the Word to an audience where they are at.
But this isn't a forum dedicated to one religion, and this is not meant to reach out to people. Preaching would mean a lot more to those who need help and are lost, like people in homeless shelters and third world countries. Not mostly educated people on computers in a forum about 'KillerMovies'.
Also, I don't understand why I have to respect their relatively good spamming efforts when no one asked them to continue and an overwhelming majority of people asked them to stop or at least discuss fairly.
Are you really this obtuse?
3. Your giving me credit or not is all but meaningless.
What proof is there that YOU do anything people would consider worthwhile?
There you go again, making it about me.
What do YOU contribute that makes life better for others?
Ignoring what I do for a living and helping those around me, of which I say almost nothing at KMC (because it's irrelevant and I don't believe in spouting off my own 'goodness'😉, I like to think I educate those silent masses, all wondering why you - a professed non-theist, is defending Abrahamic spam-masters. I mean, at least be honest here with yourself, if not with us.
What thing of tangible benefit would your granting of "credit" to me confer?
4. Inspiration and spreading of knowledge isn't dependent on people actively searching for inspiration and knowledge.
It helps, but it isn't a requirement. Not in most cases, at least.
Nearly the whole of advertising is based on that fact, if you want a proof.
If someone was here pushing product, they'd get banned. Regular members who appear to sell stuff like Jim Coyler recently have their threads edited or closed and are warned.
People who spout of religious fundamental rhetoric, demean the science which makes their lives and internet access possible, and pretend like others cannot possibly be right and must be bad for not believing should somehow get a pass...
Like, do you even think about this stuff before you hit submit?
Let me know when you want to rise to the challenge of the rest of my post, which you deliberately ignored or injected your own meaning into above.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
@bluewaterriderIf you were at a nice restaurant, and a man got up and started quoting Shakespeare, would you think that was a good thing? After all, Shakespeare is one of the best writers of all time, and we all really should know more Shakespeare.
Just because something is good does not mean it is appropriate.
The flip side to this, of course, is that just because something is considered appropriate, doesn't necessarily make it good.
There are other variations of this statement with similar corollaries, of course.
To specifically answer your question about the restaurant bard, it would depend on the circumstances.
I can think of quite a few cases where I would consider that and other actions a good, even delightful thing.
An interesting note, social animals that we are, a lot of times the goodness or appropriateness of an action is determined in the minds of most people by whether or not people are acting alone or in concert with a group.
Take the following, for instance, which is NOT intended for your benefit, be sure of that, but only because you claim to never click on anything of this sort.
Regardless, it WILL illustrate the point for anyone else, which is a good reason in and of itself to post.
For you, look up or ask someone about the phenomenon of "flash gatherings", so you can at least imagine what you would see if you were open-minded enough to examine something somebody presents you to illustrate their point: