Damborgson
King of the Damboys
Originally posted by Digi
No, it's one way existence can be meaningful. Just because you can't perceive meaning outside of this doesn't mean that others can't.This also isn't evidence or logic/reason to believe in the existence of a soul. That you can't perceive meaning outside of a soul's existence means nothing. It's hope; blind faith. It's an emotional, perhaps psychological reason to believe, but not an empirical or rational reason.
The potential meaninglessness of life is not contingent upon an afterlife. Again, this is a narrow view of existence in which only one form of "meaning" is accepted.
But what you're talking about is again hope. Hope that there is more. But it's not a reason to believe that there is more.
It surprises some when I tell them I hope there's an afterlife too. I hope I'm wrong. Of course, it could be one of an infinite number of terrible afterlives as well, but I'd take my chances. But I also hope I become rich tomorrow. That alone isn't sufficient to justify a belief that I'll become rich tomorrow. I hope Mjolnir falls to Earth in my yard and I become the Asgardian protector of Earth. But - the fact that I'm probably not Worthy aside - I think we can agree it's not going to happen. But that's the same hope in the unjustified divine; it's just less socially accepted.
"Affect the energy" is meaningless to me. How does an action affect a karmic energy? What is karma in the first place? Not in a textbook sense, but can you actually point to is existence in the world?
Basically, what I'm getting at is, how does the universe operate in a way that cannot simply be described by deterministic physics. My contention is that this alone is sufficient to describe our actions.
In Scripture, probably not. But talk to a priest, ask him where the souls of insulated African tribes are headed. Or even well-meaning individuals who are exposed to Christ but don't accept Him. Chances are, his answer will be "Heaven."
👆 Nice finds.
How could we possibly know that?
"Recognized by God himself..." seems like a problematic train of thought to me. How is it recognized? Through the Bible? It's circular reasoning.
"Why is the Bible divinely inspired?"
"Because the Bible says so."
Am I not grasping your meaning here?
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As it comes down to with many religious topics, it's the difference between possible and plausible. Lots of ideas - including religious ones - are possible. And from a subjective experience, which is all we have, we can't deny any possibility in an absolute sense. But "plausible" is a much tougher sell, one that nearly any justification for a soul falls short of imo.
Nice chatting though Damborg. I don't see you 'round this forum too often. Hope I'm not coming on too strong. 😉
Hey Digi 🙂 Sorry its been so long. Life's been up and down and sideways all the same, barely had time to be on the VS forum at all.
anywho, here goes:
You're more than free to back up the meaning behind something that has no impact whatsoever. This is the place for it. My ability to find meaning however, can't be properly judged off simple posts in this thread 🙂
It's up to you to believe it or not dude. If I know anything in life, it's that no one is necessarily right. Some just seem to be more so than others. I'm hardly putting this out as the end all be all explanation for eternity. To me, it's utterly ridiculous to think we disappear when we die completely as, even at our most base form, atoms, we are energy. The soul as its often described, can be considered the energy we return to as when we die. The soul's been the object of obsession for humanity for as long as we've been on Earth. Yet it's not scientific tests that can call out to the supernatural, asking for rational evidence of something that goes beyond the norm we're used to, is a rather...interesting request.
Looking beyond this existence...is a narrow form of existence? But the belief that we turn to dust and that's that is open minded?
Well that's the thing. My belief isn't based on faith. It's what I believe in sure, but my faith in it is hardly relevant, nor is my hope relevant. So the scenarios you put out, being rich and getting Mjolnir, are just hope. My belief is apart from that. It's not my hope that shapes the workings of the afterlife, it's just how it was intended to be by a being far greater than you or me or anyone else. *shrug*
I don't see where the surprise comes from. You're just a man, one who like me, probably has the hope that we will continue after this life. It just doesn't make sense to you is all. That's something you'll have to figure out on your own, or not since belief doesn't have much to do with it in my opinion.
It's affected by the negative and positive actions we do in this life. Energy, or our soul, is filled with what we put in it. Negative actions don't lead to anything good, but can be balanced out through good, just like the universe always seeks to balance itself, so do we.
Asking for firm evidence of karmic existence though is like me asking you to please confirm that we cease to exist after death. It's beyond our mortal selves.
What priests have you talked to? That's a rather moderate and friendly answer. I was told I was going to hell since I was in 4th grade. 🙂 That I needed saving just like the murderers, rapists and other scum of the world. Because we are essentially bad people in the Christian belief, that are saved only through faith. This is fact for that religion.
Thanks, it had been a while since I'd searched bible verses.
We can't. And no, either you're not grasping it or I did a poor job of describing what I meant. The point was to describe how poor that line of reasoning was, not that I believe it.
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No, no, of course not 😄 we're just expressing our thoughts. Wouldn't be any fun if we were pushovers about it ha.