Originally posted by Q99You can't read either? No surprise here.
Right, right *pats your head condescendingly*.Now, putting aside stuff you made up, there's still all the other sources. We are talking like half-a-dozen writers here.
You've written Superman before, in "Justice League Unlimited" and recently in the "Crisis on Two Earths" film. How does this version of Superman compare to the others you've written previously?Mcduffie: One of the things about writing Superman in "Justice League" is that if you write him at his full potential, then there's no need for the rest of the Justice League. So, you always have to sort of power him down or kind of Worf-Effect him so he doesn't solve the entire problem in four seconds. You have to adjust him in a way that makes him less effective than he normally is. That's probably true for every member in a team book who has their own solo thing, but it's really obvious with Superman. In this case, one thing, we're starting off with a Superman who is much more powerful than he's ever been, which is fun as well. I generally have to write a Superman who is much weaker than he usually is. The problem of having him in a story that's not a finite one-off like this is, is that if Superman is at full power, he just fixes everything and there's nothing to do next month.
Except he never once looked 'above' her where DD's head level would be, he always reacted to and looked at where she actually is, has grabbed her arm (not the five-times-as-think DD one), her neck, dodges her lasso... which by your logic he shouldn't even see... and so on. The actions of the comic blatantly contradict your interpretation, he thought of her as DD but *fought* her at her own size.You didn't answer the last time and before that and before that either.
Why is he HVing clouds? There you disappear again.
Which you know, you just like to ignore 'cause it hurts your feelings.Hahaha.
Hey, you know that *every* source says he's faster in run speed/flight speed? It's just hand-speed/combat speed where Wondy's faster?Every source? How about Kurt Busiek?
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/supeswwreactiontime.jpg
Look whose reflex speed Batman and Wonder Woman use when their powers have merged
I am, actually 🙂 Keep in mind I acknowledge everything Superman does to Wondy, it's just unlike you I also include what she does back.I acknowledged what she does too, I just don't like the version of WW fangirls.
The opposite would be if someone said that WW was overwhelming Superman by ignoring the parts of the fight where Superman is doing well, and said it was one-sided in that direction.Which is completely contradicted by what is there on panel where she barely manages to slow him down while he is busy breaking her bones like twigs.
It's including every feat by both sides that's the whole picture.What is there in the whole picture Q?
Where they punched back and forth through the mountains and getting past her to *save Lois* is his entire purpose of being there?She punched him and he caught her punch, manhandling her. He knew the fortress was about to self destruct, so he sent her away. He wasn't even trying to fight her and hence stunts like throwing blood at her.
See, this is what I'm talking about. They hit each other back and forth in that one, and you ignore everything she does.He didn't even hit her untill she was next to his machine.
Do you really think ignoring every time she hits him is convincing?She hit him just like everyone else does when he doesn't uses superspeed. When he actually used speed, he effortlessly caught her strike.
You're like a little kid, refusing to admit anything he doesn't like.And you're like a kid yelling at how nobody sees the way he does. Quite amusing.
You're arguing that a fight where Superman failed his objective until a distraction came along was a total Superman win where he, like, totally controlled the fight and manhandled her!Superman didn't have an objective, wonder woman did where she prepped and what not. He was just being a dick.
What, those times she hit him and knocked him away from the objective? We should just totally ignore those!Sure, he was just wasting time.
Yea, that's the ticket! Didn't happen! Everything happened as you said and not what those lying, deceitful pages of the comic that show her fighting back just fine say! All hail high canon Abhilegend, higher canon than the comics because he says so! Only *some* pages of a fight count on his word alone!So did Wonder Woman fulfill her objective here where he is effortlessly handling her like a child?
Is hitting him her only objective? Does he even try to get away from her like you are trying to claim? Nope, he actually takes her away from the machine which is the only objective he had in the comic. Wonder Woman failed horrendously in her task where she said she would kill him if necessary to stop from using that machine.
Throwing tantrums wouldn't make the comic any more WW favored. What does hitting him away actually means in terms of h2h? He doesn't uses speed to dodge attacks, he can actually take attacks on his chin unlike her.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Sacrifice? Where he is seeing a larger opponent, took her effortlessly to the sun after blitzing her and then after being exposed to kryptonite oneshotted her? Great example there.
Are you kidding me!
Just because he was seeing a bigger oponents doesn't automatically make Diana weighting that weight.
I guess you forget when Kal lost sight of Diana. Even with his superrior hearing, he couldn't even hear her breath nor her heart beat.
Again, it's okay for Superman to fly to the sun to get a boost in power, but it's wrong for Diana to use the Kryptonite?
Originally posted by SquallX
Are you kidding me!Just because he was seeing a bigger oponents doesn't automatically make Diana weighting that weight.
I guess you forget when Kal lost sight of Diana. Even with his superrior hearing, he couldn't even hear her breath nor her heart beat.
Again, it's okay for Superman to fly to the sun to get a boost in power, but it's wrong for Diana to use the Kryptonite?
Just compare these two and tell me with straight face that what superman is seeing is actually what there is.
vs
According to Superman Doomsday cut his throat from nearly 10 feet away.
Yeah, that's an actual proof of how shitty Rucka's writing is. Superman knows Doomsday has no heart and heartbeat and she was standing right behind him, she didn't disappear anywhere.
Superman wasn't amped anywhere in the comic.
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
I thought Robinson wrote the fight where Diana is facing Amazo and says he's as fast as she is.
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
So which writers have subscribed to the Diana = Bruce Lee; Superman = Bolt idea? Just McDufie and Robinson?
They're the ones who outright said it.
Greg Rucka said Superman has the advantage in the air, Diana in the ground, which I'd say is the same general belief.
We've also got quite a few other writers portraying them as about equal: John Byrne, Christopher Mueller, Brian Azzarello, Phil Jimenez, Kurt Busiek... it's a pretty good list. That's part of what makes Abhilegend's argument so bad, *even if* one decided to write it off based on an interview that only he has apparently seen, tons of big names portray them that way.
AbhYou are kidding me.
Just compare these two and tell me with straight face that what superman is seeing is actually what there is.
vs
According to Superman Doomsday cut his throat from nearly 10 feet away.
And *every time he always perceives an attack exactly corrisponding to Diana's*. He can grab her *actual wrist*. He can try and strangle her *actual neck*. He saw an *actual attack* coming at his neck and failed to stop it. He dodges her *actual lasso*.
Your argument- Oh, she was seeing stuff way off and he was punching in the air... which never happens once, none of his attacks are ever miss-aimed, they only fail if they're blocked. This happens with every last attack in the fight. In the real-life version of the fight, his eyes are always on *her*, no exception.
You are just sad. She does something in the comic, and you come up with excuse after excuse why that's not what happened... and none of the excuses actually hold up when one looks at them.
Originally posted by Q99Haha, what? Robinson outright stated that Superman was the most powerful being on earth.
They're the ones who outright said it.
Greg Rucka said Superman has the advantage in the air, Diana in the ground, which I'd say is the same general belief.Its quite opposite of what was presented in his writing and general writing. Even Mcduffie said that superman would win against her.
We've also got quite a few other writers portraying them as about equal: John Byrne, Christopher Mueller, Brian Azzarello, Phil Jimenez, Kurt Busiek... it's a pretty good list. That's part of what makes Abhilegend's argument so bad, *even if* one decided to write it off based on an interview that only he has apparently seen, tons of big names portray them that way.I've ripped this argument apart many times, yet you're like a glutton for punishment. None of those writers have presented them as equals.
And *every time he always perceives an attack exactly corrisponding to Diana's*. He can grab her *actual wrist*. He can try and strangle her *actual neck*.That was all Doomsday in his mind. Look who is getting strangled here.
He is actually bigger than Superman.
He saw an *actual attack* coming at his neck and failed to stop it. He dodges her *actual lasso*.He didn't. Doomsday doesn't goes around slitting people's throat. That was because Max was telling him to do so.
Your argument- Oh, she was seeing stuff way off and he was punching in the air... which never happens once, none of his attacks are ever miss-aimed, they only fail if they're blocked.Really? Tell me again where her head is?
In the clouds?
You are just sad.Hahaha, you are quite amusing. Tell us more about how she stopped Superman from reaching to the machine.
She does something in the comic, and you come up with excuse after excuse why that's not what happened... and none of the excuses actually hold up when one looks at them.Its quite sad that you actually believe what you post here.
AbhilegendHaha, what? Robinson outright stated that Superman was the most powerful being on earth.
And he is. Captain Marvel, Wondy, and so on are still peers though, he's just a little ahead.
As Superman himself says in the Jeph Loeb Superman run (to add yet-another-writer who thinks they're close), if he falls she's right behind him as defender of the Earth. Not Captain Marvel, or Martian Manhunter, or any of those others. Wonder Woman.
Its quite opposite of what was presented in his writing and general writing. Even Mcduffie said that superman would win against her.
Yeeees, and they still portray her as a very good fight because she's close and they're blatantly peers.
You seem to somehow think 'Superman is stronger' means 'Oh, all those back-and-forth, tough struggles they have with regularity where Wonder Woman fights as a peer? Yea, those're all really one sided, and we should assume all the stuff she does in those doesn't count.'
They regularly say that Wonder Woman is close behind, and regularly show her give good fights, but hey, you're just going to interpret the words how you want even if it's very much not what they either meant or show in their own works, and take it to mean that he's way more powerful... even though they never actually portray it like you say.
I've ripped this argument apart many times, yet you're like a glutton for punishment. None of those writers have presented them as equals.
Abh, abh, abh.... asserting they aren't equals when they are shown in close fights by all of those isn't 'ripping it apart,' it's stating your opinion.
You can ignore half the content of a dozen fights, but it's still you just ignoring stuff. Wonder Woman hurts Superman in fights they're in. She takes his full-powered hits in return. She won in Sacrifice *when Superman really could see her hits coming and target her properly*. When neither is going all out, the normal tendency is to stalemate with no major injury. This is what the comics show.
You can yell "WHY CAN'T YOU IGNORE WONDER WOMAN'S ATTACKS AND WINS LIKE I DO?" till you're blue in the face, we're still not going to buy it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
How is wonder woman faster than Superman based on a writer's views who openly admitted that he nerfed Superman? Look who is getting blitzed and pimp smacked here.Also a huge lulz @ Thor having 80% of combat speed as Superman and Gladiator being equal to him.
I knew it would get to you.
Originally posted by Q99Captain Marvel is a peer, wonder woman isn't..
And he is. Captain Marvel, Wondy, and so on are still peers though, he's just a little ahead.
As Superman himself says in the Jeph Loeb Superman run (to add yet-another-writer who thinks they're close), if he falls she's right behind him as defender of the Earth. Not Captain Marvel, or Martian Manhunter, or any of those others. Wonder Woman.That's Joe Kelly. He wrote Cap as equal to Superman 7 issues later.
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/squeezing/ActionComics768b.jpg
Equal in every way. That's what a peer is. She is second fiddle to him. Jeph Loeb wrote him shattering Aegis and killing her with her own lasso.
Yeeees, and they still portray her as a very good fight because she's close and they're blatantly peers.Nope, he always dominates her like nothing in h2h.
You seem to somehow think 'Superman is stronger' means 'Oh, all those back-and-forth, tough struggles they have with regularity where Wonder Woman fights as a peer?She never fights him like a peer. Peers don't almost kill peers with three strikes.
Yea, those're all really one sided, and we should assume all the stuff she does in those doesn't count.'Name one fight where she fights him like a peer where he isn't weakened.
They regularly say that Wonder Woman is close behind, and regularly show her give good fights, but hey, you're just going to interpret the words how you want even if it's very much not what they either meant or show in their own works, and take it to mean that he's way more powerful... even though they never actually portray it like you say.Tell me more about this peerish fight which never happens. Superman can't kill Captain Marvel with three punches.
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/striking/WonderWomanv2175a.jpg
Abh, abh, abh.... asserting they aren't equals when they are shown in close fights by all of those isn't 'ripping it apart,' it's stating your opinion.You've yet to produce a single scan in your favor.
You can ignore half the content of a dozen fights, but it's still you just ignoring stuff. Wonder Woman hurts Superman in fights they're in. She takes his full-powered hits in return.So does every top tier, doesn't mean much.
She won in Sacrifice *when Superman really could see her hits coming and target her properly*. When neither is going all out, the normal tendency is to stalemate with no major injury. This is what the comics show.Haha, you're quite amusing with this. She never won anything, it was a draw at best where he KTFO her in one hit.
You can yell "WHY CAN'T YOU IGNORE WONDER WOMAN'S ATTACKS AND WINS LIKE I DO?" till you're blue in the face, we're still not going to buy it.
Tell that to Grant Morrison.
Oneshotted like nothing.
Originally posted by carver9Did you forget what Bada said the last time you argued that?
I'm not seeing Wonder Woman one shotted in those scans.
Originally posted by Badabing
Just stop. Was she just resting? Was she just playing possum? Did she just find a shiny new penny on the ground there? Her eyes are even closed in the scan, along with her body contorted and on the ground. Unless you can prove otherwise, or provide evidence to the contrary, WW was KOed in that scan.I'm going to say what I, along with other mods and some members, already know. Some Marvel fans like to play dumb, lowball feats and ignore any feats which go against their arguments. I'm going to make it my business to address these tactics with warnings and bans.
Put up a proof, its a mod ruling now.
