Ben Kenobi vs Count Dooku

Started by Jinsoku Takai13 pages

Disjointed arguments and double standards.

Why did Mace lose to Vastor?

Because Vastor had magnitude of power compared to Yoda or Anakin. And unlike them he was immensely strong physically.

Windu demonstrated significant skill and speed superiority. But strength and durability in unarmed combat proved to be more vital.

There is nothing embarrassing in losing to Vastor.

Originally posted by Arhael
There is nothing embarrassing in losing to Vastor.

I never said as much. Mace is one of the best duelists there is. But the fact that Mace failed to beat him is definitive proof that his fight against Palpatine was a one-off.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I never said as much. Mace is one of the best duelists there is. But the fact that Mace failed to beat him is definitive proof that his fight against Palpatine was a one-off.

Definitve proof? WTF? Do you even know what definitive proof is? Can you read? If yes, then did you read what has been posted over these last several pages?

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Definitve proof? WTF? Do you even know what definitive proof is? Can you read? If yes, then did you read what has been posted over these last several pages?

Given that I addressed your argument but you didn't address mine, are you sure that I'm the one that has been ignoring posts?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Given that I addressed your argument but you didn't address mine, are you sure that I'm the one that has been ignoring posts?

Definitive proof is something like the creator of Star Wars flat out saying that...well I dunno that you have to be either Mace of Yoda to compete with the most powerful Sith Lord in history. But since we don't have anything like that you're right. We concede to your superior argument.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Given that I addressed your argument but you didn't address mine, are you sure that I'm the one that has been ignoring posts?

Addressed multiple times now.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Addressed multiple times now.

The one on page 12?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
But the fact that Mace failed to beat him is definitive proof that his fight against Palpatine was a one-off.

Lol, it doesn't. The only thing that fight with Vastor proved is that Windu's invisible speed is not a one off.

Also, there is nothing embarrassing in fact that Windu had hard time against Grievous. It was his first fight with Grievous.

Windu's style is known for it's offensive capabilities. But when dealing with opponent, that can attack from multiple angles simultaneously, you have no choice but to fight defensively. Hence, why Windu labeled Kenobi as the best match for Grievous. Also, Kit Fisto and Ventress mitigated this advantage by employing Jar-Kai, which offers better defense against simultaneous attacks.

You assume Windu's performance to be below Dooku against Grievous. I equally can assume that it is Grievous' performance was much better during fight with Windu as he gained a lot of fighting experience since he last sparred with Dooku. Even during fight with Windu he was improving by memorizing Vaapad moves.

Originally posted by Arhael
The only thing that fight with Vastor proved is that Windu's invisible speed is not a one off.

...

What? Why would Mace fighting with invisible speed be a one off? Several Jedi and Sith have fought with invisible speed, nothing special about it.

Originally posted by Arhael
Also, there is nothing embarrassing in fact that Windu had hard time against Grievous. It was his first fight with Grievous.

Again, I never said so. Grievous is a good duelist.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
...

What? Why would Mace fighting with invisible speed be a one off? Several Jedi and Sith have fought with invisible speed, nothing special about it.

Again, I never said so. Grievous is a good duelist.


In that case how fight with either opponent proves that fight with Palpatine was a one off? 😑

Originally posted by Arhael
In that case how fight with either opponent proves that fight with Palpatine was a one off? 😑

Against Palpatine, Mace fought faster than he ever had because of the darkness within him. If mace could fight as fast, he would not have lost against Vastor.

Windu always had darkness within him, that is why he invented Vaapad on first place. There is no way for you to prove that Windu fought against Palpatine faster than Vastor. The fact that Windu struck him 6 times before he could even focus his eyes shows significant speed difference and is attributed to Vaapad specifically.
You can argue your opinion all day long, your assumptions will still remain assumptions.

Except, y'know, he actually managed to fight Sidious unlike Maul despite that they are roughly equal in speed, not to mention Anakin's perspective.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Except, y'know, he actually managed to fight Sidious unlike Maul despite that they are roughly equal in speed, not to mention Anakin's perspective.

Except, y'know, Maul actually managed to fight Sidious evenly after brother's death, he even landed a kick. Anakin's visual perception does not prove anything because even the most lame Jedi can defend against things that are faster than the eye could see like blaster bolts for example. Precognition is the key. For Windu Sidious was "blur" as well.

This argument can go on and on. In next post you will for the hundreds time claim that Sidious held back and "prove" it with more assumptions. It all happened before.

Originally posted by Arhael
Precognition is the key.

Tell that to Tiin who pilots ships at lightspeed. And for that matter, Sidious' precognition was such that he knew every move Maul would make before he'd done it.

Originally posted by Arhael
This argument can go on and on. In next post you will for the hundreds time claim that Sidious held back and "prove" it with more assumptions. It all happened before.

Assumptions? It's right there for the naked eye. The fight was meant to showcase Sidious' utter badassery, not to suggest parity. Even the goddamn novelization of the fight has Sidious holding back tremendously until the end where he fights so fast that Maul only sees countless afterimages. 😬

Tiin got struck down before he could even blink or move....
And Sidious taught Maul how to fight....you don't need precognition for that....
he knows his apprentice....the apprentice didn't know the master...

Mace and Vastor?
imo Mace was still wondering did himself or Depa taught Kar and the Akk Guards
Jedi skills...and could Depa have taught Kar Vaapad's unarmed version?
or enough to beat him unarmed....like Sora taught Quin without telling him what it was

he was teaching him during his retraining....

Tell that to Tiin who pilots ships at lightspeed. And for that matter, Sidious' precognition was such that he knew every move Maul would make before he'd done it.

Precognition could be tricked/confused.

Assumptions? It's right there for the naked eye. The fight was meant to showcase Sidious' utter badassery, not to suggest parity. Even the goddamn novelization of the fight has Sidious holding back tremendously until the end where he fights so fast that Maul only sees countless afterimages. 😬

Yes, assumptions and your interpretation.