Count Dooku and Asajj Ventress vs. Darth Maul and Savage Opress

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Most of that is the case of lightning. We were specifically talking TK, of which I see only one instance.

He still has successfully TK'ed him.

On another note, I like how Dooku was floored and his shoto deactivated but he wasn't rendered unconscious.

First, learn what a shoto is.
Second, reported for trolling/ flamebait. That goes for both of you.

Originally posted by Intrepid37

Hardly. Savage is a good bit more powerful than Ventress; his feats attest as much, from moving starships to obliterating several droids etc.

Dooku's out of Savage's league.

Maul is a comparable telekinetic.

Dooku can kick or force push Maul long enough to kill Savage with the force.

Which came from a distraction.

Tagging the most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy is impressive regardless of circumstance imo.

Savage's powers would be boosted by the energies on Felucia in return.

I'm saying Dooku's mastery of the DS allows him to utilize its power far better than Maul or Savage. Ventress went from being able to at least successfully run from the Count, to being floored with a finger. He's magnitudes more powerful than Ventress on Vjun, and he'll be magnitudes more powerful than Savage. And Maul cannot hope to defeat Dooku alone.

umad?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
umad?

10 years late to the "when trolling was cool" party.

damn straight

Originally posted by Intrepid37
damn straight

Originally posted by Lord Stark
He still has successfully TK'ed him.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku's out of Savage's league.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku can kick or force push Maul long enough to kill Savage with the force.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Tagging the most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy is impressive regardless of circumstance imo.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
he'll be magnitudes more powerful than Savage.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And Maul cannot hope to defeat Dooku alone.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Just concede your unnecessary exaggeration, peep.

Exaggeration of what?

In a contest of Force power? Not at all.

Yes. Very much so.

It's neither your job to script the fight nor is it mine.

I'm not. I am simply citing the way Dooku fights. He's very good at separating/ incapacitating individuals in 2v1 fightswith his force powers.

Dooku vs. Bulq and Tholme- Bulq KO'd
Dooku vs. Ventress and Assassins- All 3 KO'd with the force
Dooku vs. Ventress and Savage- Savage kept out of the fight with Force Lightning
Dooku vs. Kenobi and Skywalker- Skywalker superkicked out of the fight temporarily. Kenobi incapacitated.

Indeed. Maul and Savage tagged the most powerful Sith Lord in the galaxy. 😂

Tagged? When did they ever injure Lord Sidious.

As Savage also has the benefit of the energies on Felucia, not really.

Raw force power does not = mastery of the Dark Side. The increase in power that people get is not equal or somehow proportionate. If it was Dooku wouldn't have been able to pwn Ventress with a finger.

For a majority? No. But with his brother, their victory is guaranteed.

Hardly. Dooku's feats are far superior to the Maul brothers as a team. On neutral ground its a far more even fight, on a nexus the Count would dominate imo.

Originally posted by XPA!
Of Savage's susceptibility to Dooku's telekinetic power.

No I am not.

Not really. Dooku has no TK feats to suggest a stomp of Savage.

You must be joking. He TKed and electrocuted three assassins including Ventress while blind and drugged. He pwned Kenobi with the utmost ease, murked Tholme, pwned Sora Bulq, brought down a massive crane.

With a burst of lightning, which both his enemies have shown resilience to.

When has Savage ever shown a resilience to lightning? And when has Maul ever shown a resilience to lightning from a Force user of Dooku's calibre?

In a fight against a Savage less powerful than in S5 (The Clone Wars Episode Guide) who not only lacked synergy with his companion, but also ended up fighting her, not to mention that
Maul and Savage are, and beyond question, more powerful than Kenobi.

Savage is most certainly not more powerful than Kenobi.

Maul did bite Sidious' hand in a fight before TPM.

lol

This begs for proof.

Sure. Dooku vs. Ventress. The Count was able to TK Ventress on their fight aboard his flagship. But Ventress was still able to successfully escape via redirecting Dooku's lightsaber. On a nexus Dooku needed a finger to defeat her. If the increase was proportionate he would not be able to dismiss her in that way.

Given that he casually removes her lightsaber mid-fight outside a nexus, this doesn't follow.

If you are talking about their duel after the 2v1, Ventress was still able to TK his lightsaber. And removing someone's lightsaber casually does not in anyway equate to killing someone with a finger.

As a new member, it's very discouraging to see such furious wank of the good Count. Maul alone is Dooku's rival; adding his brother sufficiently tips the scale in his favor.

Maul is not Dooku's rival. Maul's showings against Kenobi prove that.

Also you aren't a new member. Seems quite the coincidence a new member joins, immediately addresses my argument point by point all while Intrepid just got his Account Restricted. Reported for dupe account.

Intrepid you ****, your ban was only for a ****ing day.

Oh look another dupe. You trying to get IP banned Intrepid?

Originally posted by Lord Stark

1. When has Savage ever shown a resilience to lightning? And when has Maul ever shown a resilience to lightning from a Force user of Dooku's calibre?

2. Savage is most certainly not more powerful than Kenobi.

3. Maul is not Dooku's rival. Maul's showings against Kenobi prove that.

1. TCW Season 5 deleted clip, Savage Opress and Darth Maul blocked Sidious's Force lightning, and Maul managed to Force push right through it, so Dooku's calibre is out of the question.

2. Obi-Wan focuses more on swordplay more than he does on defensive Force techniques. So, technically speaking, I'm rather certain, as I've never seen Savage in his prime get TKed easily if not at all by the likes of Sidious, that Savage Opress is can overpower Kenobi using the Force. Both of them, actually. Maul could have stabbed Kenobi in that Force grip on Ryloth but he wanted a good tasty revenge.

3. You're right. He just might surpass Dooku.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
1. TCW Season 5 deleted clip, Savage Opress and Darth Maul blocked [B]Sidious's Force lightning, and Maul managed to Force push right through it, so Dooku's calibre is out of the question.

That'd be perfect evidence, except its n-canon.

2. Obi-Wan focuses more on swordplay more than he does on defensive Force techniques. So, technically speaking, I'm rather certain, as I've never seen Savage in his prime get TKed easily if not at all by the likes of Sidious, that Savage Opress is can overpower Kenobi using the Force. Both of them, actually. Maul could have stabbed Kenobi in that Force grip on Ryloth but he wanted a good tasty revenge.

Yes I'm not arguing that Maul isn't more powerful than Kenobi. I'm arguing about Savage. I doubt Savage can easily off Kenobi with the force.

3. You're right. He just might surpass Dooku.

"You have been replaced."

Lul no.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
1.That'd be perfect evidence, except its n-canon.

2. Yes I'm not arguing that Maul isn't more powerful than Kenobi. I'm arguing about Savage. I doubt Savage can easily off Kenobi with the force.

3. "You have been replaced."

Lul no.

1. It isn't non-canon, stop being ignorant. It was an uncompleted scene that fills in for what happened during the duel when Obi-Wan left Mandalore.

2. Maul can control Obi-Wan a hell lot easier than Obi-Wan can control him. Maul choked Obi-Wan with ease on Yellowblade's Landing.

3. Yes, Dooku was the replacement for Maul while Maul was caught in his clinic insanity state on Lotho Minor for 20 years. Dooku looked more normal and had more political control than Maul. Dooku had more resources as Sidious's apprentice. Maul didn't, he was a silent assassin. But Maul in combat can surpass Dooku is what I believe, though not by much.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No I am not.

You are.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You must be joking. He TKed and electrocuted three assassins including Ventress while blind and drugged. He pwned Kenobi with the utmost ease, murked Tholme, pwned Sora Bulq, brought down a massive crane.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
When has Savage ever shown a resilience to lightning?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And when has Maul ever shown a resilience to lightning from a Force user of Dooku's calibre?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Savage is most certainly not more powerful than Kenobi.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Sure. Dooku vs. Ventress. The Count was able to TK Ventress on their fight aboard his flagship. But Ventress was still able to successfully escape via redirecting Dooku's lightsaber. On a nexus Dooku needed a finger to defeat her. If the increase was proportionate he would not be able to dismiss her in that way.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
If you are talking about their duel after the 2v1, Ventress was still able to TK his lightsaber. And removing someone's lightsaber casually does not in anyway equate to killing someone with a finger.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Maul is not Dooku's rival.

Originally posted by Intrepid37

Never, but his brother, who is less powerful, trained, knowledgeable and masterful, took several bursts.

But his brother is physically much stronger than Maul.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Sure he is. In Sith Hunters, he nearly chokes Kenobi to death.

On a place strong in the dark side. If it was that easy for Maul to own Kenobi he would have done so in their one on one in "Revival".

Fact is Maul and Kenobi have been portrayed as equals no matter how much you and LordStark hate that idea.

Maul may have the edge in the Force and Kenobi may have the edge in Sabers, but overall they are pretty much equals (from what we've seen so far).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But his brother is physically much stronger than Maul.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
On a place strong in the dark side.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Fact is Maul and Kenobi have been portrayed as equals

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Evidence? And what does physical strength have to do with it? Maul trained his physical attributes ''to the utmost''.

Are you kidding?

Opress was punching cracks and holes in stone even before his nightsister amp. His nightsister amp amped him physically by around 10 times.

There's just no way Maul is physically as strong as Opress.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yet only released him after flying away a long distance.

Yeah but even before the ship took off Kenobi was floored and clearly too weak to do anything about it.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
They have been portrayed as peers as duelists, yes. But you ignore the circumstances surrounding their duels. In the first one, both were battered either physically or mentally, and Maul won that fight. In their second duel, they fought as equals for a minute or so, but this was while Maul had in mind to keep Kenobi alive, so I fail to see how that does not prove him at least an equal swordsman if not a somewhat more skilled one. The only time when Kenobi ever had the edge was when he fought Maul and Savage in a cave that, because of their size, restricted their movement abilities, and even then, he never got a hit on Maul either, only on Savage, and again, the brothers never intended to kill him; only to capture him. Not to mention, Maul has a very distinct advantage in sheer power, {which he has used several times}, has more technique, has similar physical abilities, is similarly a good tactician, has shown himself as more knowledgeable with respect to arcane powers, is more resistent to pain, etc.

The first fight shouldn't really count because there were just too many wild factors involved.

The second fight (which I consider the best one in terms of judging their prowess) was the most even. Maul may have wanted Kenobi alive, but that doesn't stop him chopping off some limbs, so I would question how much he needed to hold back there (if at all). And let's not forget that fight ended with Kenobi landing a successful kick on Maul.

Overall I'd say that one showed them being pretty equal.

Then the last one where you agree Kenobi was winning, was supposed to be a peak performance by Kenobi. Kenobi did continuously land hits in on Maul, just not any "lethal" hits. And that's the only time Maul was chucking him around with the Force, but you have to factor Kenobi growing tired from battling both brothers there.

So like I said overall they have been portrayed as equals, but with Maul having greater force feats (pulling the ship off the cliff) and with Kenobi seeming to have an edge in Sabers.

I don't really see Kenobi having any edge in sabers.

And lol (really - I actually laughed) at Taay'hai indicating that Maul is = to Dooku. Dooku's trashing of Kenobi... twice... the second time with the Force, would strongly indicate otherwise.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Are you kidding?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Opress was punching cracks and holes in stone even before his nightsister amp.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
His nightsister amp amped him physically by around 10 times.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
There's just no way Maul is physically as strong as Opress.

Regardless,

Originally posted by Me
And what does physical strength have to do with it?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah but even before the ship took off Kenobi was floored and clearly too weak to do anything about it.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The first fight shouldn't really count because there were just too many wild factors involved.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Maul may have wanted Kenobi alive, but that doesn't stop him chopping off some limbs, so I would question how much he needed to hold back there (if at all).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Kenobi seeming to have an edge in Sabers.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Maul may have the edge in the Force and Kenobi may have the edge in Sabers, but overall they are pretty much equals (from what we've seen so far).

Power, just so you know, I agree with this notion 100%.