Stark vs ID4 fleet

So it goes from wireless communication system, to entire wireless network? Do they have an entire wireless network? I'll need screenfeats for proof.

I'm not asking if he can hack the communication system, because you've convinced me it's possible, but how will hacking their COMMUNICATION SYSTEM lead to an attack on their entire computer network?

Burden of proof is actually on you to prove that accessing their mere communication system will give access to their entire defense grid. Prove their communication system is even a part of their defense grid.

Originally posted by Lestov16
So it goes from wireless communication system, to [b]entire wireless network? I'm not asking if he can hack the system, because you've convinced me it's possible, but how will hacking their COMMUNICATION SYSTEM lead to an attack on their entire computer network?

Burden of proof is actually on you to prove that accessing their mere communication system will give access to their entire defense grid. [/B]

No, the burden of proof is on your to prove that their system is hardened against that specific attack vector.

Still waiting for that evidence...

Edit - Are you aware how hardening information systems work? You literally have to harden your system to mitigate specific attack techniques. The aliens clearly did not have a firewall in place to prevent the propagation of a virus to all their ships. Since humans literally did not have an 802.11 standard (nor were they aware of how the alien ships communicated with each other except that it was radio waves (the signal was a radio signal or a microwave signal because that's what those satellite dishes detect...but it is usually radio waves)) or technology, they did not really have the devices in place that could be used to upload a virus to any ship or system. That's what David did when he "hooked up" to the mothership: he uploaded it to their system and pretty much took over their shield systems (remember, his virus also took over their OSDs by displaying that laughing skull...so he took over their video and audio, to some extent...which is pretty dang funny at how crappy their Information Systems Security was). In fact, there is 0 evidence of any type of security features to the alien's Information Systems...none...

In fact, security was so lax that a human was able to figure out their exact "attack launch" time. That's like getting the information on exactly when troops are going to do a secret strike. It would seem that the aliens have no concept of IT Security. They wouldn't need it as their culture appears to be a purely communistic culture where everything is shared (which is an old Sci-Fi idea of how almost purely spaceship dwelling societies would have to be in order to function).

Edit 2 - In fact, I'll concede the entire point if you can provide any evidence at all of the aliens having some sort of IT Security in place for their ships.

I already see an attack vector that could easily be used by Stark and Jarvis: the two-way handshake going on between that little spacecraft and the mothership proves that there is a synchronous (always-on) network connection between all ships and the mother ship. That two-way connection is problem #1 for the aliens and a malicious payload can (and was, in the film), delivered via that synchronous communication network between all ships.

The reason I am pretty sure that the aliens use Radio Waves for their communication (rather than microwaves) is it

1. Appears to be a blanket signal
2. Was picked up by human communication devices rather easily, and
3. Proximity to the source (the mothership) is what activated the little ship.

Those are all 3 signs of a radio-wave communication network where every node in the network has high-level system access and functions as a transceiver (because the shields got knocked out on all ships, not just the mothership, when malicious payload was uploaded).

Why the hell are you talking about what David did? IM can't replicate that because he can't sneak on the mothership. Prove the system David hacked into is the same as the wireless communication system IM would hack into.

You seem to be confused by my question. I'm not asking if he can hack into the communication system. I'm asking how will accessing their communication system get him to the defense grid David accessed? How do you know the communication system and the defense grid David accessed are even a part of the same network? It's like saying that if somebody hacked my phone's landline, they'd be able to shut off my microwave. Every electrical system is not a part of the same network.

Burden of proof is on you to prove hacking the communication system will give access to their entire network, mister mon. 🙂

Originally posted by Lestov16
Why the hell are you talking about what David did? IM can't replicate that because he can't sneak on the mothership.

I've already explained why. Read my posts again.

It is extremely important to understand what David did and how is plan worked to understand my points.

Jarvis is hacking the mothership and any ships, wirelessly, with ease.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Burden of proof is on you to prove hacking the communication system will give access to their entire network, mister mon. 🙂

That's not how IT Security works. When you're audited to see if your systems are secure, you prove that your systems can withstand specific attacks.

It is not the other way around. That makes no sense in the real world. lol

Edit - Prove that the alien's wireless network is hardened against unauthorized access attempts. lol

Prove that the aliens even have IT security in place. lol

Prove that the aliens even have an ACL (even if the ACL is not enforced). lol

Originally posted by dadudemon

I already see an attack vector that could easily be used by Stark and Jarvis

blabbity-blah

Once again, prove that this attack will do anything other than merely mess up the alien's communications. Prove that hacking their COMMUNICATION system will give access to their entire defense network and self-destruct their ships. All you've proven is that Tony can mess with their communications. That DEFINITELY is not enough to win here.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Edit - Prove that the alien's wireless network is hardened against unauthorized access attempts. lol

Prove that the aliens even have IT security in place. lol

Originally posted by Lestov16
Once again, prove that this attack will do anything other than merely mess up the alien's communications. Prove that hacking their [b]COMMUNICATION system will give access to their entire defense network and self-destruct their ships. All you've proven is that Tony can mess with their communications. That DEFINITELY is not enough to win here. [/B]

David already proved that: virus went to all ships, not just he mothership. Their network is insecure.

Now the ball is in your court to prove that the aliens have wireless security.

Let me make it more clear: David did not have any type of devices that could interface with their wireless network because, and I repeat: those technologies did not exist in 1996. lol

Stark not only has access to those technologies, he can fabricate his own even if they did not exist.

I'll keep asking you to prove that the aliens have any IT Security.

Originally posted by Lestov16

I know you missed the point. It's okay: IT Security isn't for everyone.

It's like arguing with a wall 🙁
I'm done for the moment. I can't seem to talk any sense into you. Maybe Robtard can sooth this beastly stupidity. Godspeed to him.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Now the ball is in your court to prove that the aliens have wireless security.

Actually, the ball is in your court to prove their defense grid and wireless communication system are part of the same network. Hop to it, mon. smoke

tell it like it is DDM..

Do not support DDM's falsehoods, BruceShark.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Actually, the ball is in your court to prove their defense grid and wireless communication system are part of the same network. Hop to it, mon. smoke

I don't need to prove that, at all. There's no reason to assume that that is a requirement. That's just something you've made up to pretend it is even slightly a relevant point.

Regardless, it's already proven. For the third time, all ships were affected when David uploaded it to the mother ship: therefore, communications happen between all ships. Lemme make it more clear why your point is so dumb: you want me to pretend the systems are compartmentalized, firstly, and then you want me to prove that IT Security exists between each compartmentalized system when neither assumptions are shown on screen. You can't just make up stuff for me to argue against. That's not how debate works.*

It's like talking to an idiot: you simply do not understand why it is paramount to you prove the aliens have any form of security.

Go ahead: I'll wait for it. Prove that the aliens have any form of IT Security for their computing systems. Any.

*Here, I'll use your tactic. Lestov16, you need to prove that a toddler pressing any button inside the small ship won't send a signal to all the ships to explode. Until then, all ships have a self-destruct button that will cause all the ships in the fleet to explode. Prove that the aliens don't have that explode button in their ships.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Regardless, it's already proven. For the third time, all ships were affected when David uploaded it to the mother ship

Was David uploading it into the wireless communication system IM will be forced to use?

Spoiler:
No

Originally posted by dadudemon
therefore, communications happen between all ships.

So IM can phuck with their communications. That doesn't mean he can control all of their ships.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Lemme make it more clear why your point is so dumb: you want me to pretend the systems are compartmentalized, firstly,

Prove that they aren't. You're the one making the stupid assumption that all of the alien defense systems are on the same network. Prove it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
and then you want me to prove that IT Security exists between each compartmentalized system when neither assumptions are shown on screen.

No. I just want you to demonstrate how accessing the communication system (the only wireless system we see) gives access to the entire defense grid.

[QUOTE=14581340]Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]You can't just make up stuff for me to argue against. That's not how debate works.*

I'm not making stuff up. You're the one who thinks that accessing the mere communication system will grant access to the entire network. You can't make assumptions. That's not how debates work

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's like talking to an idiot: you simply do not understand why it is paramount to you prove the aliens have any form of security.

You do not understand why it is paramount that you prove their entire defense grid can even be accessed through a mere communications system.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Go ahead: I'll wait for it. Prove that the aliens have any form of IT Security for their computing systems. Any.

Prove hacking a communications system grants control over the entire alien defense network.

Originally posted by dadudemon
*Here, I'll use your tactic. Lestov16, you need to prove that a toddler pressing any button inside the small ship won't send a signal to all the ships to explode. Until then, all ships have a self-destruct button that will cause all the ships in the fleet to explode. Prove that the aliens don't have that explode button in their ships.

Was an explode button seen in the ship Goldblum and Smith used? nope? Okay then. Was the entire alien defense grid shown to be accessed through a mere communications network? Nope? Okay then.

Let me use your tactic:

Iron Man has just hacked Verizon, giving control over some of the US's communications. Based on your logic, this is going to grant him the ability to turn on stoves, control garage doors, and turn on cars.

Burden's still on you to prove he can access their entire network through a mere communication system. I'll be waiting 🙂

End of thread,

Tony has space armor that can't even get him into space

"Mark XXXIX: "Gemini" Suborbital Armor. Suit's external repulsors could propel it to escape velocity, just not fast enough to achieve orbit. Deployed by J.A.R.V.I.S. to Miami as per the "House Party" protocol in Iron Man 3."

Suborbital armor that cant get him into orbit..<Fail...

They have no alien space ship capable of disguising there entry into the mothership.

Jarvis could not even shut down the tessaract shields as the shield was unbreachable.

Tessaract Alien Technology>Alien Shields>Jarvis, "wifi" or any other argument

Not even Jarvis could penetrate the shields

No way to get to the mothership to implant the virus as they have no alien ship to do so

Humanity Loses.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Was David uploading it into the wireless communication system IM will be forced to use?

Spoiler:
No

Yes, that was the actual attack vector: it directly relied on that communication network to even work.

That's a moot point of yours, however: you must first prove that there is any security that Tony has to worry about: you haven't.

Originally posted by Lestov16
So IM can phuck with their communications. That doesn't mean he can control all of their ships.

Incorrect. He can do anything he wants with their ships.

The burden is on you to prove that they have security in place to prevent that. Remember, the only "intelligence" issue that the human race faced was just figuring out their systems: something Tony is definitely better at than David as Tony is literally the best engineer on earth and definitely and vastly eclipses David.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Prove that they aren't. You're the one making the stupid assumption that all of the alien defense systems are on the same network. Prove it.

Here is your problem: you want me to prove that he can get through their defense systems when the defenses systems don't even exist. You have no idea how logic works. Here is how your logic works:

Me: You cannot ride a unicorn because unicorns don't exist.

You: Unicorns buck when you get on their backs. You can't ride them because they buck.

Me: No, you cannot ride them because they do not exist.

You: Prove that a unicorn does not buck when you get on it, idiot!

Me: What in the actual f*ck.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I'm not making stuff up. You're the one who thinks that accessing the mere communication system will grant access to the entire network. You can't make assumptions. That's not how debates work

No, what I said. My assumption is what appeared on screen: no IT Security exists on the aliens spacecraft as none was exhibited.

You're clearly wrong. This is why arguments go on for pages and pages with you. You just make the same arguments over and over hoping to get a different input. You're clearly an argumentation idiot.

Originally posted by Lestov16
You do not understand why it is paramount that you prove their entire defense grid can even be accessed through a mere communications system.

First, you must prove that this "defense grid" exists. Then, if you can prove that this IT Security Defense Grid exists, then you must prove the nature of that IT Security system is hardened against unauthorized access attempts.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Prove hacking a communications system grants control over the entire alien defense network.

Did you watch the movie? Yes. David did it and took down their shields through their wireless communication system.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Was an explode button seen in the ship Goldblum and Smith used? nope? Okay then. Was the entire alien defense grid shown to be accessed through a mere communications network? Nope? Okay then.

Okay, so you now understand why your points are stupid as f*ck? Do you understand now why your arguments with people last pages and pages?

Good? 🙂

Originally posted by Lestov16
Let me use your tactic:

Iron Man has just hacked Verizon, giving control over some of the US's communications. Based on your logic, this is going to grant him the ability to turn on stoves, control garage doors, and turn on cars.

You didn't capture it properly.

In order for you to capture it properly, you'd have to make a point like this:

"Tony Stark can easily hack into Verizon's wireless data network which uses orthogonal Frequency-Division Multiple Access multiplexing algorithms of which, Tony Stark is aware. Any device using this network is now paired to Jarvis and can be remotely controlled by Jarvis using this same communication technology."*

Originally posted by Lestov16
Burden's still on you to prove he can access their entire network through a mere communication system. I'll be waiting 🙂

No, the burden is on your to prove that aliens have any sort of IT Security: they displayed none on screen. You lose by the golden rule.

Concede or I will embarrass you more.

Let me make it easier: Tony Stark is a hacker and the world's greatest computer scientist. He is so good that he has created computer technology that doesn't exist in our world. The aliens' systems will be easily accessed by Tony Stark and Jarvis because those systems have no IT Security to speak of, as seen on screen.

If you wish to dispute that the systems cannot be accessed by Tony and Jarvis, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that the systems have any sort of security hardening against any hackers (hint: it is not hacking if you do nothing to get access to systems...Your buddy posting a message with yoru facebook account because you left your computer logged on and with Facebook open, is not hacking: you just had no security in place).

*This is actually true. Verizon (or any major carrier) can remotely control any device on their network...which should scare the shit out of you or anyone who values their privacy.

End of thread,

Tony has space armor that can't even get him into space

"Mark XXXIX: "Gemini" Suborbital Armor. Suit's external repulsors could propel it to escape velocity, just not fast enough to achieve orbit. Deployed by J.A.R.V.I.S. to Miami as per the "House Party" protocol in Iron Man 3."

Suborbital armor that cant get him into orbit..<Fail...

They have no alien space ship capable of disguising there entry into the mothership.

Jarvis could not even shut down the tessaract shields as the shield was unbreachable.

Tessaract Alien Technology>Alien Shields>Jarvis, "wifi" or any other argument

Not even Jarvis or Repulsers could penetrate the shields, as he said its made of pure energy and unbreachable

No way to get to the mothership to implant the virus as they have no alien ship to do so

Humanity Loses.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Stark figures out everything Goldblum's character (David) figures out, including the virus that takes down the shields, in 10 minutes. On top of this, Stark's virus causes all of the ships to change their atmosphere systems to become toxic for all the aliens but still safe for humans. Stark then harvests the technology from the ships and adapts it for his uses. Then he makes it better.

He discovers the invasion and mitigates it in about 10 minutes. He then does everything else over 2 weeks in a montage.

He does this all without having to leave his lab.

The aliens all die horrible deaths and ID4 lasts 10 minutes.
/thread

Let's add another DDM-level assumption to the list:

Stark then sends a virus to the alien ship which turns all of their tech into Reeses Cups. Then he sends another virus which turns their fuel into chocolate ice cream.