Originally posted by operator616
And the same thing applies to LT. Remember that LT made his 1st appearances in those Strange Tales issues (a few issues prior to Nebulos but you get the point) as well.
But seriously, all LT did before SW 2 was, struggle against Nebulos, Flee from Korvac's universe (and separate it from the multiverse, which is the only impressive thing he did), summon the inbetweener and prevent Strange from cheating again by channeling order/chaos.
Also, although the LT had to use something other than his power due to a stipulation,
it wasn't as vague as I remembered, there was some info that gave us some clues into Nebulos.
Nebulos was lord of his own entire Universe:
[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/17428813_LT2.jpg]
Nebulos empowered Strange with his Staff, (partially) turning Strange into pure energy
then Strange was able to fly by Countless UniverseS in an instant basically:
[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/17428814_LT3.jpg]
Strange/Staff also stomped Mordo (empowered by all Earth's mystics)
by absorbing Mordo's power via Staff, it was really a one-shot that
sent Mordo literally zooming to the ends of Infinity & beyond: (not bfr, holy)
[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/17428815_LT4.jpg]
[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/17428816_LT5.jpg]
Also, it appears Nebulos' Staff was able to absorb LT's mystical energies,
this is why he resorted to slagging a huge mountain to destroy that planet.
Nebulos was amazed at LT's power out-put but I agree it was still cheesy all the same.
But imo, Nebulos wasn't such a punk, he had his special power through the Polar Specter,
which is to absorb the energy attacks of any being/entity it seems, even the LT's.
This is also interesting, Nebulos was going to incant a final spell that would've wrecked The Cosmos,
Strange states: "it must not be let loose on The Universe"
[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/17428817_LT9.jpg]
[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/17428818_LT10.jpg]
But what Universe? His own Universe (Planets Perilous) ... or 616? (Strange's universe)
Or did this mean The Cosmos as in all universes?
Just sayin,
why would Strange care what happens to Nebulos' twisted realm where only he seems to exist?
And if Strange was talking about his own universe (616)
If so ... well, they were located Countless UniverseS away from 616,
does this mean Nebulos was gonna one-shot 616 from countless universeS away?
If so, that's pretty bad-ass.
Interesting thought imo.
-------------------------------------------------------
LT fled from Korvac's universe means less than nothing imo.
Since LT never confronted Korvac, and was never even noticed by Korvac,
LT did nothing, and nothing happened to him for me to care about this.
Plot called for Korvac to UN the universe,
otherwise,
LT would've used his effortless universal manipulating power on Korvac,
instead of a freakin single tiny sun.
IB? Now, ... that really means nothing, and it ain't an opinion imo.
Originally posted by operator616
Looking at this limited history, does this LT strike you like the all-powerful cosmic judge that we know him right now?
Originally posted by operator616
Yes, and i actually agree partially with what you're saying (that Marvel grew), but Marvel growing was the reason LT grew in power as well. If Marvel hadn't grown into multiple (and later, into countless) multiverses, LT wouldn't have had that statement in FF annual that he exists simultaneously in all multiverses, and he wouldn't have held the "megaversal" brothers in 1 hand. That's what differentiates LT from the other high end multiversal beings. He as megaversal feats/statements.
Yet, LT has always been the most powerful entity aside from the
implication of a one "God" that made even the LT, we later learned this is something called TOAA.
Originally posted by operator616
I honestly don't see how LT saying "by the omniversal constant" proves that he functions on an omniversal scale, especially considering that in that same issue he said that he safeguards the continuum of universes, which is the multiverse.
The Omniverse is made up of universes, infinite number of universes, a .. continuum of universes.
Multiverse and Megaverse are just groupings of universes.
Omniverse is literally described in that glossary as "all alternative universes,"
on panel supported that statement several times I presented one pages back.
We may have bone, flesh and skin, (multiverses/megaverses)
but in the end, it's just atoms. (universes)
Originally posted by operator616
Alright, though he was still helpless against Korvac, and he fled.
But imo, LT had his hands tied behind his back by Gruenwald. Simplistic plot constrictions.
Especially when we see LT use the local sun against a guy who
absorbed a host of Celestials amongst other cosmic powers for crying out loud.
Yet the same LT demonstrated at-least pure universal manipulation in said story.
I mean, ... ahh whatever if you don't see it for what t is.
Originally posted by operator616
This actually takes place at the beginning of SW 2 #9 (but that's beside the point). And i already disagreed with you that this statement of Beyonder's, takes away his low showings. Yes, it does look like the Beyonder orchestrated everything, but it doesn't make sense for him to willingly let his power get usurped by Doom, for instance.
Originally posted by operator616
See, just because i didn't reply to that other thread, doesn't mean i agree with your points. I already posted that scan from Dazzler to show that he wasn't limiting himself the entire time:
this shouldn't be ignored
Originally posted by operator616
It's cool, i respect your opinion as well, but i strongly disagree with some of the points you're making.
Originally posted by SquallX
So please educate us on what Beyonder would do to those guys taking him seriously?Primal Monitor- Is the entirety of the DC verse. It is the canvas that the DCU is paninted on.
The Presence- An Omnipotent being
The Great Evil Beast- The Dark side of the Precense
Mandrakk- Was feeding on the Bleed. Dwarf The DCU. Was eating everything in it's path.
Cosmic Armor Superman-A walking plot device. To beat this guy, you need to have a more powerful story.
Mxy- Even in KC, Mxy was destroying the DC Omniverse. He claimed he was sick and tired of all the fighting, all the retcons, he just wanted an end to all of it.
Spectre with full back up from the Presence- Presence won't let him lose.
Batmite- Just as powerful as MxyOriginal Ion-Almost became an Omnipotent being. He was powerful enough to became Omnipresent, and i believe Omniscience.
So yeah, tell me how Beyonder stops them when there not ****ing around with him.
Stalemate.
Stalemate.
Kills him.
Destroys him.
Kills him.
Obliterates him.
Disintegrates him into a pile of space goo.
You're very obviously lowballing the Beyonder as people like quan lowball your beloved DC characters. Like I said, saying that he would get trashed by anyone on this list is bullsh1t of the highest order, and borders on baiting.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
You're wrong as usual.WORLD'S FUNNEST MXY is enough.
Originally posted by Epicurus
Stalemate.Stalemate.
Stalemate.
Kills him.
Destroys him.
Kills him.
Obliterates him.
Disintegrates him into a pile of space goo.
You're very obviously lowballing the Beyonder as people like quan lowball your beloved DC characters. Like I said, saying that he would get trashed by anyone on this list is bullsh1t of the highest order, and borders on baiting.
You're so adorable when you bark loudly and fail to bite, you angry little puppy. 😂
And you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
Originally posted by Mr Master
LT struggling against Nebulos means nothing imo. Since there's no cap-level to gauge Nebulos/staff prior.
Anyway, I went back to the story, LT was winning the cheesy fight the entire time.
Nebulos even ran for life at one point.Also, although the LT had to use something other than his power due to a stipulation,
it wasn't as vague as I remembered, there was some info that gave us some clues into Nebulos.Nebulos was lord of his own entire Universe:
Nebulos empowered Strange with his Staff, (partially) turning Strange into pure energy
then Strange was able to fly by Countless UniverseS in an instant basically:Strange/Staff also stomped Mordo (empowered by all Earth's mystics)
by absorbing Mordo's power via Staff, it was really a one-shot that
sent Mordo literally zooming to the ends of Infinity & beyond: (not bfr, holy)Also, it appears Nebulos' Staff was able to absorb LT's mystical energies,
this is why he resorted to slagging a huge mountain to destroy that planet.
Nebulos was amazed at LT's power out-put but I agree it was still cheesy all the same.
But imo, Nebulos wasn't such a punk, he had his special power through the Polar Specter,
which is to absorb the energy attacks of any being/entity it seems, even the LT's.This is also interesting, Nebulos was going to incant a final spell that would've wrecked The Cosmos,
Strange states: "it must not be let loose on The Universe"But what Universe? His own Universe (Planets Perilous) ... or 616? (Strange's universe)
Or did this mean The Cosmos as in all universes?Just sayin,
why would Strange care what happens to Nebulos' twisted realm where only he seems to exist?
And if Strange was talking about his own universe (616)If so ... well, they were located Countless UniverseS away from 616,
does this mean Nebulos was gonna one-shot 616 from countless universeS away?
If so, that's pretty bad-ass.Interesting thought imo.
Well, there's always that moment where Nebulos was helpless against crumbling rocks, that gives us a good idea about his power-level:
http://i.imgur.com/GkfirlE.jpg?1
So, Nebulos was "the lord" of his universe...............a universe, where there's no one except him? I'm impressed.
LT wasn't, by any means, winning the fight; in fact, he admitted himself that every attack of his was getting absorbed by Nebulos' staff, which is why he resorted to summoning the flames of Faltine:
http://i.imgur.com/z135DNQ.jpg?1
I appreciate the effort you're putting by posting those feats, but they're not even remotely impressive when in comparison with LT. And Strange absorbed through the staff, the occult magic of all earth's mystic.............add some little extra power the staff itself possesses (as Nebulos later said, that it grew in power as time passed on, or something like that), and you've got a staff that is able to completely nullify all of LT's cosmic bolts.
The universe it's going to wreck, was Nebulos' universe, definitely. There's no proof to suggest otherwise, Strange being concerned about it? why wouldn't he be concerned about the destruction of an entire universe (be it his or otherwise)? Considering that they were in Nebulos' own universe, and the specific term Nebulos and Strange used was "the universe/cosmos" (not "my/our universe" in case of Strange) id say that it was meant to refer to Nebulos' dimension.
Also, Nebulos said that even LT couldn't prevent such a spell, that doesn't exactly support your case here. Not to mention that Strange was able to take away his staff when the Tribunal couldn't.
Originally posted by Mr Master
He was always the all-powerful cosmic judge. Even in the Nebulos story:
Im aware that he's been called "cosmic judge" in the story (multiple times), but you didn't seem to understand what im saying. I meant to say that, when looking at LT's (unimpressive) pre SW 2 history its nothing compared to his later performances (see ahead). Which is why i asked you whether pre SW 2 LT strike you as powerful as his later appearances (this was a actually a rhetorical question).
Originally posted by Mr Master
LT has few real appearances. (meaning where he does something significant)
Stories cater to heroes (almost always human mortals, mostly with some kind of ability grant it)Yet, LT has always been the most powerful entity aside from the
implication of a one "God" that made even the LT, we later learned this is something called TOAA.
So tell me, honestly, when you're thinking of LT's feats, what feats do you think of? Does anything pre-SW 2 come to mind? Or rather the time he was stated to exist in all multiverses simultaneously, or the time he held 2 megaverses in his hand, or the time he was established to be the 2nd most powerful entity in Marvel, or the time he was established to be superior to the IG (which was capable of affecting multiple universes, as opposed to how it's portrayed currently), or the time he merged surfer with the universe instantly, etc..?
All those are post-SW 2, non of the things he did before are worth mentioning when it comes to his feats.
Originally posted by Mr Master
There's no proof that I've seen that states: "the continuum of universes = the multiverse."The Omniverse is made up of universes, infinite number of universes, a .. continuum of universes.
Multiverse and Megaverse are just groupings of universes.
Omniverse is literally described in that glossary as "all alternative universes,"
on panel supported that statement several times I presented one pages back.
Well, here's the proof, right from the relevant issue:
http://i.imgur.com/79uHLcD.jpg?1
"the entire continuum of universes -- the multiverse itself"
Doesn't get clearer than this.
Originally posted by Mr Master
That's how you see it, and that's cool.But imo, LT had his hands tied behind his back by Gruenwald. Simplistic plot constrictions.
Especially when we see LT use the local sun against a guy who
absorbed a host of Celestials amongst other cosmic powers for crying out loud.
Yet the same LT demonstrated at-least pure universal manipulation in said story.
I mean, ... ahh whatever if you don't see it for what t is.
How do you know LT would've over-powered Korvac with his "universal power", anyway?
But suppose we throw all that on the plot; LT still hasn't done enough to suggest that he is above multiversal.
Originally posted by Mr MasterHis desire to give others what they wanted is one excuse.
Yet, it makes no difference if he orchestrated it (consciously/unconsciously) to begin with.... meh, there's the more logical reasoning which is making Beyonder feel "desire"
and now there's a reason for Beyonder to return to a second long ass series,
and hopefully we'll make tons of money like we did with SW1.
So he wanted Doom to take his power? ........yet, he didn't seem too happy about it when he later met Doom in FF.
I see an excuse here, not an argument (no offense intended).
Originally posted by Mr Master
It's not ignored, and you posted that scan before, means nothing.
Since Beyonder didn't give any specifics, it's inconsequential.
Also, the LT and the rest of Marvel were like microbes to Beyonder, so ...
your 'lesser beings' argument doesn't work here imo.
I never brought up anything about "lesser beings" in this debate, that's you responding to the older thread.
In any case, i don't know what "Beyonder didn't give any specifics" have to do with anything. The scan is pretty clear........
But anyway, i can see by now that the discussion is going nowehere, which is why this'll probably be my last response regarding this topic.
Originally posted by operator616Well, there's always that moment where Nebulos was helpless against
crumbling rocks, that gives us a good idea about his power-level:
In any case, Nebulos was more about defense that equated to offense.
Nebulos absorbs energy/mystical attacks and then uses it against his opponent.
His durability was next to paltry I'll give ya that.
That's probably why that "absorbing" Staff" comes in handy for em.
Originally posted by operator616So, Nebulos was "the lord" of his universe...............a universe, where there's no one except him? I'm impressed.
LT wasn't, by any means, winning the fight; in fact, he admitted himself that every attack of his was getting absorbed by Nebulos' staff, which is why he resorted to summoning the flames of Faltine:
As for Nebulos winning:
"Winning" with his back turned hauling ass in the opposite direction. 😬
Originally posted by operator616I appreciate the effort you're putting by posting those feats, but they're not even remotely impressive when in comparison with LT. And Strange absorbed through the staff, the occult magic of all earth's mystic.............add some little extra power the staff itself possesses (as Nebulos later said, that it grew in power as time passed on, or something like that), and you've got a staff that is able to completely nullify all of LT's cosmic bolts.
It's absorption capabilities had nothing to do with the mystic energies.
The Staff grew in power accordingly with what it absorbed through time, not with time.
Originally posted by operator616The universe it's going to wreck, was Nebulos' universe, definitely. There's no proof to suggest otherwise, Strange being concerned about it? why wouldn't he be concerned about the destruction of an entire universe (be it his or otherwise)? Considering that they were in Nebulos' own universe, and the specific term Nebulos and Strange used was "the universe/cosmos" (not "my/our universe" in case of Strange) id say that it was meant to refer to Nebulos' dimension.
Strange labelled the "numberless Dimensions"
as he travelled across the voids of space-time, as ... The Universe:
When Mordo got shotted into the "Everlasting Nothingness" (void after all creation)
He passed Endless galaxies to the ends of infinite space-time, then into the nothing beyond.
Writer tells us "All Worlds of the created Cosmos are left behind" ...
Anyway ... even if that weren't the case and Nebulos meant 616:
Nebulos was able to convert Strange into energy and send him to 616 in an instant using a partial amount of the Staff's power:
I don't see why he couldn't send a spell in the same fashion using all the Staff's power.
Nebulos taking out his own reality makes no sense and accomplishes nothing for him,
especially since he seemed alone in that reality and Nebulos' tone was to hurt The Cosmos,
not only himself and LT/Strange.
Originally posted by operator616Also, Nebulos said that even LT couldn't prevent such a spell, that doesn't exactly support your case here. Not to mention that Strange was able to take away his staff when the Tribunal couldn't.
Originally posted by operator616Im aware that he's been called "cosmic judge" in the story (multiple times), but you didn't seem to understand what im saying. I meant to say that, when looking at LT's (unimpressive) pre SW 2 history its nothing compared to his later performances (see ahead). Which is why i asked you whether pre SW 2 LT strike you as powerful as his later appearances (this was a actually a rhetorical question).
"I was created to protect the worlds without end"
All the DimensionS, in time or space ... were given to the LT"
---------------------------------------------
Again, what unimpressive showings are you talking about?
Imo, the LT was never really portrayed before SWI except for the What If.
Nebulos? Well, Nebulos had his stipulated power (to absorb any and all energy/mystical attacks)
No different than Protege's stipulated ability to copy anyone's power.
Before Nebulos, he appeared before Strange and didn't do much, didn't need to do much.
Another time he manifested In-Betweener to confront Strange, which means nothing concerning LT powerwise.
So, I don't get what you mean. It's a lame character which isn't going to get much play,
especially in a time when almost no one gave a shit about these types of subjects in comics.
Anyway, he was portrayed as extreme as times were then.
Originally posted by operator616So tell me, honestly, when you're thinking of LT's feats, what feats do you think of? Does anything pre-SW 2 come to mind? Or rather the time he was stated to exist in all multiverses simultaneously, or the time he held 2 megaverses in his hand, or the time he was established to be the 2nd most powerful entity in Marvel, or the time he was established to be superior to the IG (which was capable of affecting multiple universes, as opposed to how it's portrayed currently), or the time he merged surfer with the universe instantly, etc..?
All those are post-SW 2, non of the things he did before are worth mentioning when it comes to his feats.
All multiverses? Which are all universeS. I'm sure you have the
scan that states the LT did not exist in all universes prior to the FF annual.
Megaverses? There were none back then.
2nd most powerful? So prior he was ... The most powerful. (I win that one)
IG? Was a threat to all universeS imo. But so was Zom:
Zom not only feared the LT, but got thwarted easily by LT.
Surfer becoming infinite? Don't remember LT trying to do this before and failing.
Originally posted by operator616Well, here's the proof, right from the relevant issue:
"the entire continuum of universes -- the multiverse itself"
Doesn't get clearer than this.
Well not from the relevant issue since this 1982 What If has nothing to do with Last Planet Standing.
Also, I thought you jumped on the wagon that says there was No Omniverse back then.
So, how the hell do we expect for All Universes to be the omniverse in 1982
when the idea concerning mainstream or rather canon work was constricted to the Multiverse?
Anyway, let's try some proof after the Omniverse was established as part of continuity.
Stated:
"Omniverse ... unending Alternatives"
-------------------------------------------
Depicted:
"Omniverse ... Infinite number of Alternatives ... variations of Sol III." (616-Earth)
yawn
Originally posted by operator616How do you know LT would've over-powered Korvac with his "universal power", anyway?
LT demonstrated power over that entire universe.
Originally posted by operator616But suppose we throw all that on the plot; LT still hasn't done enough to suggest that he is above multiversal.
The stories prior to his major showings didn't call for him to act on a multiversal or better scale.
Still, Zom was a Multiversal threat and the LT did away with him easily.
Originally posted by operator616So he wanted Doom to take his power? ........yet, he didn't seem too happy about it when he later met Doom in FF.
I see an excuse here, not an argument (no offense intended).
Anyway it was a one shot deal, and no one, I mean no one can repeat that.
Unless Beyonder re-creates the scenario for us.
Which is: (a Doom, from a future he doesn't even exist in, using big G tech amped
with alien tech, while Beyonder helps him, in a reality where the concept of Death has been warped)
That was specifically stated in the Doom scene where he's stomped by Beyonder.
So, yet another stipulation aiding this Doom.
Originally posted by operator616I never brought up anything about "lesser beings" in this debate, that's you responding to the older thread.
In any case, i don't know what "Beyonder didn't give any specifics" have to do with anything. The scan is pretty clear........
You must be joking.
Anyway, I'll post the many times Beyonder stated he was limiting his powers,
to combat your one scan.
Originally posted by operator616But anyway, i can see by now that the discussion is going nowehere, which is why this'll probably be my last response regarding this topic.
Originally posted by Mr MasterLT was winning. And I already addressed LT's bolts being absorbed.
I also mentioned the LT using a huge mountain against Nebulos.
So, not sure what yur teaching me here.As for Nebulos winning:
"Winning" with his back turned hauling ass in the opposite direction. 😬
I never said that Nebulos was winning, i clearly stated countless times that LT was struggling with Nebulos.
Nope, LT wasn't winning, by his own admission, every attack of his was getting absorbed by the staff until he summoned the flames to destroy Nebulos' planet...........that translates to winning?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Before absorbing the mystic/energies it gave Strange the ability to travel across countless universeS in a blink,
it also absorbed any attack Mordo threw at em.
(also, Strange harnessed it partially)
Okay. But LT struggled against that staff, and by the end of the fight, it had the power to destroy a universe, which indicates that Nebulos hadn't used even the majority of its power while fighting LT.
Originally posted by Mr MasterLT was winning. And I already addressed LT's bolts being absorbed.
I also mentioned the LT using a huge mountain against Nebulos.
So, not sure what yur teaching me here.As for Nebulos winning:
"Winning" with his back turned hauling ass in the opposite direction. 😬
I never said that Nebulos was winning, i clearly stated countless times that LT was struggling with Nebulos.
No, LT wasn't winning, by his own admission, every attack of his was getting absorbed by the staff until he summoned the flames to destroy Nebulos' planet...........that translates to winning?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Before absorbing the mystic/energies it gave Strange the ability to travel across countless universeS in a blink,
it also absorbed any attack Mordo threw at em.
(also, Strange harnessed it partially)
Okay. But LT struggled against that staff, and by the end of the fight, it had the power to destroy a universe, which indicates that Nebulos hadn't used even the majority of its power while fighting LT.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Perhaps. It's interesting though.Strange labelled the "numberless Dimensions"
:
as he travelled across the voids of space-time, as ... [b]The UniverseWhen Mordo got shotted into the "Everlasting Nothingness" (void after all creation)
He passed Endless galaxies to the ends of infinite space-time, then into the nothing beyond.Writer tells us "All Worlds of the created Cosmos are left behind" ...
Anyway ... even if that weren't the case and Nebulos meant 616:
Nebulos was able to convert Strange into energy and send him to 616 in an instant using a partial amount of the Staff's power:
I don't see why he couldn't send a spell in the same fashion using all the Staff's power.
Nebulos taking out his own reality makes no sense and accomplishes nothing for him,
especially since he seemed alone in that reality and Nebulos' tone was to hurt The Cosmos,
not only himself and LT/Strange.Don't see how Strange's PIS abilities mean anything here.
In any case, Nebulos isn't a physical combatant.
His deal is to absorb attacks and then use them against you.We've gotten to see more of the LT and what he can do. He's the same LT of always.
"I was created to protect the worlds without end"
All the DimensionS, in time or space ... were given to the LT"
---------------------------------------------
Again, what unimpressive showings are you talking about?
Imo, the LT was never really portrayed before SWI except for the What If.
Nebulos? Well, Nebulos had his stipulated power (to absorb any and all energy/mystical attacks)
No different than Protege's stipulated ability to copy anyone's power.
Before Nebulos, he appeared before Strange and didn't do much, didn't need to do much.
Another time he manifested In-Betweener to confront Strange, which means nothing concerning LT powerwise.Anyway, he was portrayed as extreme as times were then. [/B]
And the very next page has Mordro saying "the earth......then the whole universe"......obviously referring to a single universe:
http://i.imgur.com/h7h5WDA.jpg
And if anything, your 2nd scan proves this, because it tells us "all the worlds of the cosmos", and we see planets right there on panel (not that there isn't any more examples, because there is, but you get the point, i hope).
I already acknowledged that LT functioned on a multiversal scale even before SW 2.
I am talking about him struggling against Nebulos and his staff, because it contained some earth's mystic (which was definitely a huge power up relative to the power it contained without it, otherwise, Nebulos wouldn't have bothered to go through all the trouble), which were enough to give LT some serious trouble, he was completely helpless against it.
There's also the What if.....but meh, we threw that on the plot, remember?
Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm happy the LT got more play as the years went on. I love cosmics so yippee on that.All multiverses? Which are all universeS. I'm sure you have the
scan that states the LT did not exist in all universes prior to the FF annual.Megaverses? There were none back then.
2nd most powerful? So prior he was ... The most powerful. (I win that one)
IG? Was a threat to all universeS imo. But so was Zom:
Zom not only feared the LT, but got thwarted easily by LT.
Surfer becoming infinite? Don't remember LT trying to do this before and failing.
Im sure you also have the scan that says that LT exists in all multiverses before SW 2.
Which is the point, since there was none , then LT couldn't have even had those kind of feats, which is why he was weaker.
Nope, prior, God was the most powerful, state in a Dr Strange comic (mid 70s), no less:
http://i.imgur.com/M3Pe4hS.jpg?1
I also have more examples, from different titles referencing "God" around the same time period, in the mid-70s. (i definitely win that one). Let me know.
Are you basing this off the SS v3 #44 (i think it was)......that statement that says Thanos is supreme in all realities? I have my own reasons for not believing that IG is a threat to all realities (but im not going to go into details cause that's irrelevant to the discussion).
I sure do remember LT struggling against Nebulos, though.
Zom himself wasn't a multiversal threat. It was the side effect of releasing Zom which threatened the "worlds beyond worlds":
http://i.imgur.com/hKrV8GV.jpg?1
Again:
http://i.imgur.com/9JCkxnM.jpg?1
You also must've missed the part where LT says that the threat was to a million galaxies (so much for a multiversal threat):
http://i.imgur.com/S5VnFfK.jpg?1
Originally posted by Mr Master
So, you believe this one isolated incident accounts for all 50+ issues of SWII?You must be joking.
Anyway, I'll post the many times Beyonder stated he was limiting his powers,
to combat your one scan.Anyway, I can see by now that the discussion is going nowehere,
which is why this'll probably be my last response regarding this topic.
No, i already know that it was stated multiple times that Beyonder was liming himself (heck, i recall an instance where he was beaten by some thugs), but it sure does disprove your statement that Beyonder was limiting himself the entire time, no?
Personally, i believe that he wasn't limiting himself while interacting with the abstract beings. That's just my opinion, though.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Anyway, I can see by now that the discussion is going nowehere,
which is why this'll probably be my last response regarding this topic.
Why are you acting like a parot?
But seriously, as long as new points are brought up (and not the same circles again and again, you'll notice i ignored some parts of your posts for that very reason), ill respond, otherwise (which would lead to a boring discussion), ill stop.
Couldn't get the edit in time, and i missed this part.......
Originally posted by Mr Master😐
Well not from the relevant issue since this 1982 What If has nothing to do with Last Planet Standing.
Also, I thought you jumped on the wagon that says there was No Omniverse back then.
So, how the hell do we expect for All Universes to be the omniverse in 1982
when the idea concerning mainstream or rather canon work was constricted to the Multiverse?Anyway, let's try some proof after the Omniverse was established as part of continuity.
If you were paying attention you'd notice that i was referring to the what if issue and not LPS, in my previous post, you said you found no evidence of it, which is why i responded with a scan from the relevant issue (which is specifically stated was the what if issue, previously).
I said that scan doesn't prove that LT was omniversal not that the omniverse didn't exist.
Originally posted by operator616I never said that Nebulos was winning, i clearly stated countless times that LT was struggling with Nebulos.
Nope, LT wasn't winning, by his own admission, every attack of his was getting absorbed by the staff until he summoned the flames to destroy Nebulos' planet...........that translates to winning?
Originally posted by operator616Okay. But LT struggled against that staff, and by the end of the fight, it had the power to destroy a universe, which indicates that Nebulos hadn't used even the majority of its power while fighting LT.
Once where Nebulos snuck in a whatever beam at LT,
and once they did a tug of war over the Staff:
Then came LT's burning comedy at the mountain, which never touched Nebulos directly ... That's it.
Originally posted by operator616And the very next page has Mordro saying "the earth......then the whole universe"......obviously referring to a single universe:
Strange labelled the "numberless Dimensions"
as he travelled across the voids of space-time, as ... The Universe:
But I will concede that the writing in this arc is all over the place.
I don't think I wanna entertain this 1967 joint anymore.
Originally posted by operator616And if anything, your 2nd scan proves this, because it tells us "all the worlds of the cosmos", and we see planets right there on panel
So there's nothing beyond this one universe?
Which leads to only one universe in Marvel in this story.
I disagree, but ok.
Originally posted by operator616I already acknowledged that LT functioned on a multiversal scale even before SW 2.
Originally posted by operator616I am talking about him struggling against Nebulos and his staff, because it contained some earth's mystic (which was definitely a huge power up relative to the power it contained without it, otherwise, Nebulos wouldn't have bothered to go through all the trouble), which were enough to give LT some serious trouble, he was completely helpless against it.
Originally posted by operator616There's also the What if.....but meh, we threw that on the plot, remember?
Originally posted by operator616
Im sure you also have the scan that says that LT exists in all multiverses before SW 2.
Which is the point, since there was none , then LT couldn't have even had those kind of feats, which is why he was weaker.
Originally posted by operator616
Nope, prior, God was the most powerful, state in a Dr Strange comic (mid 70s), no less:
http://i.imgur.com/M3Pe4hS.jpg?1
I also have more examples, from different titles referencing "God" around the same time period, in the mid-70s. (i definitely win that one). Let me know.
O...K ... I only said he was #1 cause you said he wasn't established as #2.
In fact earlier in this debate I included that the LT is the most
powerful save for an implication of a one "God" above him.
So ... pay attention friend like you enjoy advising.
Originally posted by operator616
Are you basing this off the SS v3 #44 (i think it was)......that statement that says Thanos is supreme in all realities? I have my own reasons for not believing that IG is a threat to all realities (but im not going to go into details cause that's irrelevant to the discussion).
Originally posted by operator616
I sure do remember LT struggling against Nebulos, though.
[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17436956_LTvsNeb.jpg]
[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17436957_LTvsNeb2.jpg]
I disagree, but ok.
Originally posted by operator616
Zom himself wasn't a multiversal threat. It was the side effect of releasing Zom which threatened the "worlds beyond worlds":
http://i.imgur.com/hKrV8GV.jpg?1
Again:
http://i.imgur.com/9JCkxnM.jpg?1
I also forgot to give you your credit on the Sorcerer Supreme#21 discourse we had,
after taking a second look, I noticed you were right, so Strange was
talking about separate infinities withIN the Multiverse which made it
trans-infinite. Therefore LT was still operating within the Multiverse.
The "Clusters" are groups containing infinite universes of a type,
then there are other "groups" (Clusters) with an infinite # of other
types of universes, yet all in the Multiverse.
So you got that, and when the debate shows up somewhere again, I'll support it,
that's Mr M. And don't forget to reciprocate when you see yourself in my shoes.
(there's been a couple of debates we've had where you could've obliged)
Originally posted by operator616
You also must've missed the part where LT says that the threat was to a million galaxies (so much for a multiversal threat):
http://i.imgur.com/S5VnFfK.jpg?1
In that very same page:
It was literally stated that "Each self-contained Cosmos" (universe) was affected:
"Infinity was rent asunder" for a short time after Zom's released:
Later in the book:
We learn that the evil mystics combined could upset the Cosmos:
[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17436282_really2.jpg]
Actually, the freakin infinite Multiverse as depicted here with replicated 616 EarthS:
Again, it is the "Worlds beyond Worlds"
[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17436288_really4.jpg]
I found ... another wtf moment, again the "million galaxies" are mentioned:
[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17436291_really5.jpg]
dur
Back in those days they had that juicy 'chocolate Tie' and that stinky 'Indiga' in fat joints,
I'm guessing someone was lifted during this creation.
Originally posted by operator616
No, i already know that it was stated multiple times that Beyonder was liming himself (heck, i recall an instance where he was beaten by some thugs), but it sure does disprove your statement that Beyonder was limiting himself the entire time, no?Personally, i believe that he wasn't limiting himself while interacting with the abstract beings. That's just my opinion, though.
Originally posted by operator616
Why are you acting like a parot?
Originally posted by operator616
But seriously, as long as new points are brought up (and not the same circles again and again, you'll notice i ignored some parts of your posts for that very reason), ill respond, otherwise (which would lead to a boring discussion), ill stop.
So that's not humor, that's being an ass in response to sanctimonious babble.
Originally posted by operator616
If you were paying attention you'd notice that i was referring to the what if issue and not LPS, in my previous post, you said you found no evidence of it, which is why i responded with a scan from the relevant issue (which is specifically stated was the what if issue, previously).I said that scan doesn't prove that LT was omniversal not that the omniverse didn't exist.
So, you shouldn't have been using anything Before there was an omniverse obviously.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
After annihilating you in the Saint of Killers VS Thanos thread, I can understand your fear and confusion.It will pass, someday.
What can WF MXY do that the Beyonder can surpass?
It already did, with your concurrent psychotic relapses from time to time ever since that thread, you adorable little chihuahua.🙂
That question is sloppily phrased. It makes you sound like a Beyonder-fan instead of a Mxy-fan.
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