Originally posted by Igniz
So that makes Clyde omniversal
I have actually proof that Clyde functions on an omniversal scale. Also, generally speaking (don't wanna fill you with all the details), omniverse = countless multiverses.
Originally posted by SquallX
I don't see why not.
He copied half of the power. Also, it was an alternate version (though to be fair, later in the series Hourman confirmed that present-Amazo could copy his "power hour"😉.
While the Worlgog is powerful (capable of feats such as reshaping/create the multiverse/universe and stopping the big bang with an incomplete copy of the worlgog), it' can't over-power the Beyonder.
Originally posted by Mr MasterAbsolutely, I agree. But just sayin Nebulos didn't really have any back ground reference either,
he came out of nowhere like Scathan in a way.Imo, and I'll leave it at that, it's the time and obscure title it was centered in.
And the same thing applies to LT. Remember that LT made his 1st appearances in those Strange Tales issues (a few issues prior to Nebulos but you get the point) as well.
But seriously, all LT did before SW 2 was, struggle against Nebulos, Flee from Korvac's universe (and separate it from the multiverse, which is the only impressive thing he did), summon the inbetweener and prevent Strange from cheating again by channeling order/chaos.
Looking at this limited history, does this LT strike you like the all-powerful cosmic judge that we know him right now?
Originally posted by Mr Master
I see where you're coming from but I kinda disagree here.
To me, it was Marvel that grew, not the LT. The LT has always been around the same spot.
It's not like Marvel was a megaverse and the LT was multiversal within this megaverse, you feel me?
Then again, he mentioned once something akin to the omniverse in the What If 82'
maybe Gruenwald tried to sneak that in for us. ... meh, just a theoretical maybe.
Yes, and i actually agree partially with what you're saying (that Marvel grew), but Marvel growing was the reason LT grew in power as well. If Marvel hadn't grown into multiple (and later, into countless) multiverses, LT wouldn't have had that statement in FF annual that he exists simultaneously in all multiverses, and he wouldn't have held the "megaversal" brothers in 1 hand. That's what differentiates LT from the other high end multiversal beings. He as megaversal feats/statements.
I honestly don't see how LT saying "by the omniversal constant" proves that he functions on an omniversal scale, especially considering that in that same issue he said that he safeguards the continuum of universes, which is the multiverse.
Originally posted by Mr MasterWell, perhaps not literally, but are you referring to something more detailed?
Didn't get what you're asking me here.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Damn opr, LT can separate an entire universe in a crazy barrier (under his own power)
but decides to attack Koravc with the local puny sun?Korvac ... who the LT knew had already destroyed/absorbed
Celestials, Shaper, other cosmics, you know the rest.I mean come on friend. That's some serious plot hinderance if I ever saw one.
Alright, though he was still helpless against Korvac, and he fled.
Originally posted by Mr Master
As for Beyonder, remember opr, Beyonder explained away any low showing that came his way,
Imo, this right here even makes his self imposed limitations irrelevant,
because it tells us that he was always in control, he set it all up, it was all his own doing basically:(this also takes place near the end of SWII#9, which supersedes every statement prior)
This actually takes place at the beginning of SW 2 #9 (but that's beside the point). And i already disagreed with you that this statement of Beyonder's, takes away his low showings. Yes, it does look like the Beyonder orchestrated everything, but it doesn't make sense for him to willingly let his power get usurped by Doom, for instance.
Originally posted by Mr Master
But on a deeper level, it's also one of the more memorable parts from a readers perspective,
how Beyonder contemplates his own self, being "omnipotent" and all.
How omnipotence can be a jarring experience in Shooter's mind. I luv this moment.
👆
Originally posted by Mr Master
besides that we know he was limiting himself.
See, just because i didn't reply to that other thread, doesn't mean i agree with your points. I already posted that scan from Dazzler to show that he wasn't limiting himself the entire time:
http://i.imgur.com/93OcQuc.jpg?1
this shouldn't be ignored
Originally posted by Mr Master
Well, I can't say you're wrong for saying that cause it's as much an opinion as my stance. We both have our reasons.So I'll respect the way you see it.
It's cool, i respect your opinion as well, but i strongly disagree with some of the points you're making.
Originally posted by operator616False, a universal being doesn't have infinite power because a universal is not infinite in any sense.
Yeah, going by this logic, Puma while empowered by the power of the multiverse could have killed the Beyonder, Doom stole Beyonder's powers with one of Galactus' technological devices, Beyonder didn't have complete control over time/history, so yeah, nitpicking that one single instance from the Lucifer series to downplay the Presence isn't going to work well for you.Besides, Yahweh from Lucifer (who said that there are forces external to him) is confirmed to be [B]God
(Vertigo Encyclopedia):http://i.imgur.com/j3ZSe8d.jpg?1
Note: God in Lucifer is mostly dissociated from the one in mainstream DC. I mean, we see him depart creation at the end of the series, but in mainstream, he was still functional. Not to mention that Elaine becoming the new "God" was completely ignored.
Tell me........who could be greater than God? Only the writers could. We even see him hold the whole creation in one hand in Lucifer #68:
http://i.imgur.com/MPRqO8x.jpg?1
Not saying it wouldn't count, it's just that the user didn't mention that he/she is using WF version.
Technically speaking, every "universal" being has "infinite power", which is why there are levels of infinity. Beyonder is at the top of that level. [/B]
Originally posted by h1a8
Any 5th dimensional being or higher would wreck Beyonder.
Beyonder is just a 4th dimensional being.
Right. here's secret wars 2 #2 saying The Beyonder (in his true form) is infinite-dimensional
http://i.imgur.com/8DMeA5V.jpg
Originally posted by h1a8
False, a universal being doesn't have infinite power because a universal is not infinite in any sense.
A universe is generally regarded as being infinitely large, which is why every "universal" being has "infinite power". And that's where the levels of infinity comes into play.
Originally posted by operator616He can't function in his true form, though, as his true form is simply blank nothingness(with a degree of self-awareness.)
Right. here's secret wars 2 #2 saying The Beyonder (in his true form) is infinite-dimensional
As a physical being, Beyonder was 3 dimensional(because he had to be.)
Originally posted by operator616But universes aren't infinite at all. Remember the big bang theory? The universe is expanding as we speak. It is finite in size and has a finite and constant amount of energy.
Right. here's secret wars 2 #2 saying The Beyonder (in his true form) is infinite-dimensionalhttp://i.imgur.com/8DMeA5V.jpg
A universe is generally regarded as being infinitely large, which is why every "universal" being has "infinite power". And that's where the levels of infinity comes into play.
Refer to Galan above about infinite dimension thing (which sounds like hyperbole since there isn't even infinite dimensions).
Also, is that even pre-ret Beyonder?
Originally posted by Epicurus
Yeah...that is some grade-A horsecrap. Nobody on this list(and I mean nobody) is going to trash him. At all.
So please educate us on what Beyonder would do to those guys taking him seriously?
Primal Monitor- Is the entirety of the DC verse. It is the canvas that the DCU is paninted on.
The Presence- An Omnipotent being
The Great Evil Beast- The Dark side of the Precense
Mandrakk- Was feeding on the Bleed. Dwarf The DCU. Was eating everything in it's path.
Cosmic Armor Superman-A walking plot device. To beat this guy, you need to have a more powerful story.
Mxy- Even in KC, Mxy was destroying the DC Omniverse. He claimed he was sick and tired of all the fighting, all the retcons, he just wanted an end to all of it.
Spectre with full back up from the Presence- Presence won't let him lose.
Batmite- Just as powerful as Mxy
Original Ion-Almost became an Omnipotent being. He was powerful enough to became Omnipresent, and i believe Omniscience.
So yeah, tell me how Beyonder stops them when there not ****ing around with him.
^ Win or lose (I don't care)
Beyonder isn't getting trashed by any single opponent from the list.
At best, "supreme being" stalemates him. (when Beyonder isn't ****ing around)
Originally posted by Galan007He can't function in his true form, though, as his true form is simply blank nothingness(with a degree of self-awareness.)
