Beyonder tries to take over DC Universe!!!

Originally posted by operator616
^ larger than a multiverse that is constituted of 52 universes, which is infinitely smaller than a multiverse constituted of infinite universes (in case of Marvel)? Sure. Yeah, i read the comic, and this "Cosmic Armor" of his which can "adapt to any threat" got destroyed in the end.

I already explained the 4th wall thingy, im not going to repeat myself again.

Id rank him below Lucifer/Michael.

Beyonder does not win.

Originally posted by CatL18

And I think that in interview, Morrison said that QWEWQ is us.

it was implied in the issue itself (all star superman #10) when we see (inside Earth-Q) an artist drawing a superman comic:

http://i.imgur.com/sKk3554.jpg

But anyway, Morrison can tell us whatever he wants, but that doesn't make it true. In fact, here's an issue of Suicide Squad, depicting Grant Morrison on panel (as the writer) and killing him:

http://i.imgur.com/3gXF3HF.jpg

Here's an instance where he controls what happens in the comic through his screen:

http://i.imgur.com/vLDlnqN.jpg?1

....yet, he got killed.........which isn't true so......

Originally posted by operator616
it was implied in the issue itself (all star superman #10) when we see (inside Earth-Q) an artist drawing a superman comic:

http://i.imgur.com/sKk3554.jpg

But anyway, Morrison can tell us whatever he wants, but that doesn't make it true. In fact, here's an issue of Suicide Squad, depicting Grant Morrison on panel (as the writer) and killing him:

http://i.imgur.com/3gXF3HF.jpg

Here's an instance where he controls what happens in the comic through his screen:

http://i.imgur.com/vLDlnqN.jpg?1

....yet, he got killed.........which isn't true so......

Originally posted by operator616

Well, at least in Scathan's case, the implication was pretty clear to me regarding his power-level.

We see him holding Beyonder + Protege in a hand and being present with LT and friends in the realm of cosmic beings (which encompasses the whole multiverse) outside of all reality. That's quite different from throwing some rocks around. Not to mention that Scathan was introduced less than a year after that FFA issue where it was mentioned the Celestials have trans-infinite power-level. Tom DeFalco being the editor-in-chief for both of those stories (i dunno, perhaps there's some sort of connection).

Statements don't hold much weight for me unless there's plausibility behind it.

But again, to address the "rocks being thrown around,"
vs Beyonder/Protege standing in Scathan's hand,
the stories are separated by nearly 30 years friend, which actually substantiates my point prior.
Also,
if I'm not mistaken that staff contained all evil in creation or whatever but that's besides the point.
It's not the LT becoming more powerful,
it's that as time progresses readers adapt and need more, 'boom, bam, slam.'
This same affect can be seen in movies, music, whathaveyou.

But the LT,
has always been the most powerful entity aside from his master, and that's the bottom line here.
We all know this, you know it, so there's no discussion here.

Originally posted by operator616

I didn't get any implications from Nebulos to suggest that he's that powerful. And i can say with full confidence, that if Nebulos (with his power being equivalent of how he originally portrayed to be) resurfaced and went up against current LT, he'd be blinked out of existence.

Originally posted by operator616

In the What if? issue, Korvac defied LT after he carried out his "ultimate punishment" in the form of a super-nova (Lol).
And after that the LT himself said that he is pretty helpless, so that issue isn't exactly one of LT's shining performances.

His "ultimate judgement" was petty and he used an external source to attack Korvac
instead of his own power directly due to plot. You missed that friend.

If the LT had curbstomped Korvac with a force bolt, like the one he used on THOTI,
then the plot can't run it's course:
(Korvac feeling despair due to universal failure so he UN's the universe)

LT should have never been there imo. It was a dumb conception I'll give ya that.
As for the "lol" at the LT's "ultimate judgement" which was making the local sun go nova:

I rather think the LT was redeemed when we see him use HIS OWN power,
like sealing Korvac's entire universe in an impenetrable barrier no one escapes
basically disconnecting the joint from the mulitiverse.

LT did that as he left, ... so, that means ... with a thought! stoned

See, dumb shit. Silly LT using a freakin puny sun instead of THIS kind of power ey.

Originally posted by CatL18

Morrison said that We are in in a holographic fractal universe, a self referential loop of story and reality.
So,Morrison in higher reality may controls what happens in the comic, and Morrison in lower reality was killed.

I'm not into who wins here, but I wanna have fun so ...
if 4th wall antics are used, then, Beyonder remembers She-Hulk!
... and She-Hulk is the 4th wall master!

So, Beyonder creates (kidnaps/forces) a 4th wall bodyguard: She-Hulk.

------------------------------------------------

She Hulk, she jumps in out of the pages which are the PM,
she can effortlessly tear away any creation on the PM,
she controls the stories that appear on the PM,
and commands how she'll be displayed on the PM.

------------------------------------------------

...bah, She-Hulk stomps the guys who put the "pages" into motion!

The "Pages" which are the PM.

(Executive Editor, Defalco, and Editor/Writer and legend, Gruenwald)

--------------------------------------------------------------

Then again, 4th wall queen She-Hulk can just kill TOAA as well:

(John Byrne no less)

--------------------------------------------------------------

Almighty She-Hulk! 😛

Beyonder, easily. This isn't even a contest.

Originally posted by Galan007
Beyonder does not win.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I love PR Beyonder, but I think Primal Monitor and World's Funnest Mxy have the juice to stop him. IMO Beyonder would pwn everyone else though (including GEB, CA Supes, Lucifer, etc.)

👆

Originally posted by CatL18
I think 52 universes has pararell dimensions, divergent time line, microverse,etc.so, It is actually constituted of infinite universe.
And I already explained mandrakk attacked Superman from 4th wall. It is not ordinary attack. But if 4th wall breaking is not accepted, You are right.

Well, all i can say at this point, is go re-read the story; because it was made pretty clear that it was 52. Mandrakk even said "do you feel the blood of 52 universes" indicating that he was feeding on 52 universes.

But yes, there are (many, in fact) realms/dimensions apart from the 52 universes in DC (at the time).

Originally posted by Mr Master
He wasn't exactly "holding" them, they were just standing there. But aside from that,
Scathan did nothing except for stopping Protege, and that's all we need to gauge his power.

Statements don't hold much weight for me unless there's plausibility behind it.

But again, to address the "rocks being thrown around,"
vs Beyonder/Protege standing in Scathan's hand,
the stories are separated by nearly 30 years friend, which actually substantiates my point prior.
Also,
if I'm not mistaken that staff contained all evil in creation or whatever but that's besides the point.
It's not the LT becoming more powerful,
it's that as time progresses readers adapt and need more, 'boom, bam, slam.'
This same affect can be seen in movies, music, whathaveyou.

But the LT,
has always been the most powerful entity aside from his master, and that's the bottom line here.
We all know this, you know it, so there's no discussion here.

Ok, Scathan never did anything aside from stomping Protege, but the implied power was there from the beginning, imo. He was shown as an equal to the LT, Eternity and Hawkgod.........

Yeah, i already agreed with you that Celestials > Cube beings doesn't make sense, i was saying that Scathan's performance is the only one that supports that statement (which helps his case here), though unfortunately, the same thing cannot be said about the other Celestials.

I understand what you're saying but that's part of the point; just because it was an old story, it doesn't mean that we should cut them some slack, we should gauge their power level relative to how cosmic characters are portrayed now. LT was a multiversal power back then, then he became a megaversal+ power, that's a big power gap.

Actually, back then, LT wasn't established to be the 2nd most powerful entity in Marvel (im sure you know this as well).

Originally posted by Mr Master

Interesting.

His "ultimate judgement" was petty and he used an external source to attack Korvac
instead of his own power directly due to plot. You missed that friend.

If the LT had curbstomped Korvac with a force bolt, like the one he used on THOTI,
then the plot can't run it's course:
(Korvac feeling despair due to universal failure so he UN's the universe)

LT should have never been there imo. It was a dumb conception I'll give ya that.
As for the "lol" at the LT's "ultimate judgement" which was making the local sun go nova:

I rather think the LT was redeemed when we see him use HIS OWN power,
like sealing Korvac's entire universe in an impenetrable barrier no one escapes
basically disconnecting the joint from the mulitiverse.

LT did that as he left, ... so, that means ... with a thought! stoned

See, dumb shit. Silly LT using a freakin puny sun instead of THIS kind of power ey.

So you throw LT's unimpressive moments on plot reasons? I mean, how could you expect me to argue if you keep throwing every low showing (same case with the Beyonder) on the plot? .....

Anyway, yes, that feat -- along with him operating on a multiversal scale (even before SW 2) -- was the reason i said he's probably Lucifer level; but it's not equivalent to the entity which exists in all the countless multiverseS simultaneously, and holds 2 megaverses in its hand, imo.

Beyonder at his prime?

So just Beyonder at his best in post retcon?

^^ I think we all just assumed pre-retcon.

Originally posted by operator616

Ok, Scathan never did anything aside from stomping Protege, but the implied power was there from the beginning, imo. He was shown as an equal to the LT, Eternity and Hawkgod..........

Imo, and I'll leave it at that, it's the time and obscure title it was centered in.

Originally posted by operator616

Yeah, i already agreed with you that Celestials > Cube beings doesn't make sense, i was saying that Scathan's performance is the only one that supports that statement (which helps his case here), though unfortunately, the same thing cannot be said about the other Celestials.

Originally posted by operator616

I understand what you're saying but that's part of the point; just because it was an old story, it doesn't mean that we should cut them some slack, we should gauge their power level relative to how cosmic characters are portrayed now. LT was a multiversal power back then, then he became a megaversal+ power, that's a big power gap.

Originally posted by operator616

Actually, back then, LT wasn't established to be the 2nd most powerful entity in Marvel (im sure you know this as well).

Originally posted by operator616

So you throw LT's unimpressive moments on plot reasons? I mean, how could you expect me to argue if you keep throwing every low showing (same case with the Beyonder) on the plot? .....

Korvac ... who the LT knew had already destroyed/absorbed
Celestials, Shaper, other cosmics, you know the rest.

I mean come on friend. That's some serious plot hinderance if I ever saw one.

As for Beyonder, remember opr, Beyonder explained away any low showing that came his way,
besides that we know he was limiting himself.
Imo, this right here even makes his self imposed limitations irrelevant,
because it tells us that he was always in control, he set it all up, it was all his own doing basically:

(this also takes place near the end of SWII#9, which supersedes every statement prior)

But on a deeper level, it's also one of the more memorable parts from a readers perspective,
how Beyonder contemplates his own self, being "omnipotent" and all.
How omnipotence can be a jarring experience in Shooter's mind. I luv this moment.

Originally posted by operator616

Anyway, yes, that feat -- along with him operating on a multiversal scale (even before SW 2) -- was the reason i said he's probably Lucifer level; but it's not equivalent to the entity which exists in all the countless multiverseS simultaneously, and holds 2 megaverses in its hand, imo.

So I'll respect the way you see it.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I love PR Beyonder, but I think Primal Monitor and World's Funnest Mxy have the juice to stop him. IMO Beyonder would pwn everyone else though (including GEB, CA Supes, Lucifer, etc.)

/thread

I don't think He succeeds

Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
[b]I don't think He succeeds [/B]

Because Primal Monitor and WF Mxy are undoubtedly at least on PR Beyonder's level, if not higher, and note I LOVE PR Beyonder, but yeah. PM and WF Mxy operate at a similar or higher power level.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
the fact his constant bias is bordering on trolling , why try and refute something that gets overlooking due to insane bias

I want to amend my position. WF Mxy utterly stomps here. He didn't just wipe out the DC comics multiverse, he was going into the DCAU and other DC properties. He really got as close to wiping out the omniverse as one could possibly get. Beyonder at his most powerful, even pre-retcon, was only limited to the comics multiverse. PM as well was only limited to the comics multiverse. Therefore, IMO at least, I rank WF Mxy as being above both of them, as well as being the most powerful non-author-avatar character in the history of comics.

Hate-fueled shitstorm in 3....2....

Originally posted by Lestov16
I want to amend my position. WF Mxy utterly stomps here. He didn't just wipe out the DC comics multiverse, he was going into the DCAU and other DC properties. He really got as close to wiping out the [b]omniverse as one could possibly get. Beyonder at his most powerful, even pre-retcon, was only limited to the comics multiverse. PM as well was only limited to the comics multiverse. Therefore, IMO at least, I rank WF Mxy as being above both of them, as well as being the most powerful non-author-avatar character in the history of comics. [/B]

Originally posted by Lestov16
I want to amend my position. WF Mxy utterly stomps here. He didn't just wipe out the DC comics multiverse, he was going into the DCAU and other DC properties. He really got as close to wiping out the [b]omniverse as one could possibly get. Beyonder at his most powerful, even pre-retcon, was only limited to the comics multiverse. PM as well was only limited to the comics multiverse. Therefore, IMO at least, I rank WF Mxy as being above both of them, as well as being the most powerful non-author-avatar character in the history of comics. [/B]

👆