Mandrakk(Dax Novu) vs Thanos with IG

Originally posted by operator616

@Mr Master: .... i can actually agree that it wasn't a pocket universe (though i can still provide the proof if needed), because it doesn't really matter to me (it was still an independent universe and that's the main point).

Incomplete IG/Magus merged Two entire UniverseS in an instant. Simple.

Originally posted by operator616

But to explain my reasoning behind it (just so you don't think that to me, handbooks > dozens of on panel statements): Fact is, a "pocket universe" is basically a universe, which is why calling it a "universe" doesn't contradict the fact that it's a pocket one. One source which specifies the kind of universe it is (a pocket one), was enough for me to take it as a pocket. (but like i said: it doesn't matter).

But the info is useful for the onlookers I guess.

Originally posted by operator616

Though i am curious......you are sticking to Thanos' one statement in the SS tie-in to prove that he was supreme in all realities, yet you're disregarding the tons of scans (which i can bring up) which have him (and IG in general) as universal (if anything, the whole event seemed universal rather than multiversal, so that should be proof enough). Here's just 1 random example that i recalled from Warlock & the infinity watch #10, proves that the IG makes one supreme in one universe/actuality:

http://i.imgur.com/Zd9iRhV.jpg?1

So.......each IG makes one supreme/God of one actuality.

In a conversation between Thanos and his doppelganger during Infinity War,
the doppelganger suggests going to Another Universe to get
Another IG and therefore become "God" of that Universe.

Thanos tells em,
"unfortunately I have sentimental attachments to This (616) Reality"

------------------------------------------------

Interesting,
with an Alternate IG Thanos suggests he wouldn't control 616,
yet,
the with the 616 IG Thanos confidently states:

"The Supreme Being of THIS" (616) "and All UniverseS" (alternates with other IGs)

Originally posted by operator616

Ill stop with one example, and i dont wanna fill the whole page contradicting thanos' claim that it makes one supreme across all realities. That's just to give us the general idea here. And i am pretty sure that you yourself know that there are other examples.

Now.....im not saying that the IG is universal (i believe it's multi-universal, potentially more), but rather there's more than enough proof to suggest its power is not supreme in all realities.

Originally posted by operator616

I never disagreed that Magus was hundred universes/dimensions away, that was stated on panel, and it's a fact.

That was with his Incomplete IG, which was just a taste of Godhood (complete IG)

===================

Thanos with the 616 IG popping out of the 616 Universe
into an Alternate Universe representing the Pre-historic era,
and then he pops into another Alternate Universe
where the Earth has reached its death.

--------------------------------------------------

In this scene, Thanos is literally Omni-Present:

--------------------------------------------------

Here ... Thanos said he'd been to the "edge of Reality and back"

... and ...

"The birth of a million tomorrows dwells within my hands & heart,
I have nothing to fear"

============================

Considering Thanos could pop into any point in Time he wished,
no past or future Timeline was out of his reach.
Considering Magus/Incomplete IG was able to manipulate multiple entire UniverseS,
while outside 616.

That, coupled with Thanos' comment above plus this below:

"Supreme being of This and All UniverseS"

-------------------------------------------

Imo, clearly this cements the truth about the 616 IG being beyond universal as fact,
and Thanos' comment given weight by what he did on panel right above.

=======================

Here's Thanos back in the Infinity Gauntlet arc, performing his ultimate feat. (aside from stomping all)

=======================

Thanos doesn't know what to do to please Death.

He wiped out half of all life in the Universe, and offered the Universe itself,
and it was not enough.

Oh, the Universe isn't enough biatch?

So ... he decides to take up a notch.

[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12720466_IG_omni_feat1.jpg]

---------------------------------------------------

Thanos let's off an omni-directional "Psychic Wave of Power"
that devastates Reality as it billows outward:

---------------------------------------------------

The "Wave" had already devastated a quarter of the Galaxy and it wasn't even at 2% strength:

[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12720471_IG_omni_feat3.jpg]

---------------------------------------------------

The Wave continues to do its thing:

[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12720472_IG_omni_feat4.jpg]

---------------------------------------------------

Here's undeniable proof,
that Thanos' Wave of devastation boom bashed not only Asgard (located OUTSIDE 616)

But it also ...

"brought about Inter-Dimensional changes"
and "shifted the Space-Time Continuum."

===================================

So, there we are, they depicted more destruction
but that should be enuff.

In a later issue off-Tie-In, we learned just how much damage Thanos' Actuality Ripple caused:

Thanos omni-directional psychic wave of power (astral ripple)
that billowed outward of 616 and devastated reality till the ends of the Omniverse,
then proceeded to pass BEYOND the Omniverse and into the Beyond Realm,
where it still continued to devastate reality even OUTSIDE the infinities of creation.

The Beyond Realm.

What is Beyond All of Eternity?
What is the final ascension?
What is Beyond everything?

Where can this place be where All of Eternity "dwindles into insignificance?"

The Beyond Realm. swank

++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Goddess's will was stronger than both Warlock and Magus.
But, it doesn't matter about who was wielding "The Cosmic Egg."

The statement was made with certainty by Starlin!

Also ... Starlin had the Goddess out to conquer "All Realities" with the 30 CCUs!

Yet Starlin was clear:

"Experience has shown that the CCUs are Nearly all powerful but Not quite!

The Infinity Gems are a FAR More Potent Force."

++++++++++++++++++++++++

As for the IG making one "God" ...

Jim Stalin the Writer/Creator of the IG series claimed Thanos was "God"

Interviewed in "Marvel Age".

Marvel Age is a Marvel title specifically designed to get the intricate details
to stories by the Writers themselves of said stories.

Jim Starlin himself adds:

"I've done the good side of God and the bad side of God,
I've gone as far as I can with the Infinity Gauntlet"

***********

Remember, the LT can't interfere with the natural order of things.

So if TOAA (Starlin in this instance) decided to make Thanos God, then it is so. 🙂

++++++++++++++++++++++++

In the Quasar interpretation,
it seems the Ultimate Nullifier's energies engulfed the Magus' stronghold:

This means first the Magus withstood the UN attack, before wiping his ass with it.

Originally posted by operator616

Well aware of that scene (GOTG v1 #33),

and nowhere does it mention that it's Warlock vs Magus.

I found the extra proof to cement my claim:

------------------------------------------------

But when Magus and Warlock struggled over the Incomplete IG, it was a battle across countless universeS:

The effects across countless universeS was still resinating across Time/Space,
Dr Strange noted after leaving Alternate Reality 691: (over 1000 years in the Future)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the extra evidence:

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The Incomplete Infinity Gauntlet missing the reality gem was
devastating Reality when Magus and Adam clashed for control of it.

After Eternity//Infinity joined the battle,
Galactus and company couldn't outrace the ripple effect caused by this.
In fact, the farther the blast radiated, it picked up in velocity.

Imo, this is definitely the reason behind the Time ripples 1000+ Years later.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Now imagine if his intentions would have been of a destructive nature.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Ripples have also been shown produced by the gems in Black September Infinity as a result of a side effect (forcible seperation). Those waves were warping multiple realities.

Originally posted by CatL18
It doesn't mean Thanos wins.

🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
I'd rather not play guessing games. /shrug

Well we saw what only a "psychic" wave was able to accomplish. Safe to say if Thanos really put out using other abilities other or in conjunction with the psychic one he displayed, it would be more potent.

Originally posted by operator616
Currently? Yes. the one Thanos originally wielded, was more.

Apart from statements in IG, we didn't see any feats. Though later on in Warlock and the Infinity Watch #4, we learn that Thanos performed a trans-universal feat, with it (managed to affect the realm of the Beyonders which is far away from Earth-616).

Avengers/Ultraforce, yes that was Nemesis (the being from which the infinity gems came), though perhaps not in the sense you're thinking of. We also learn later in Black September Infinity, that the Nemesis Waves were capable of threatening all realities. And in All new Exiles Infinity, the part of Nemesis energy is shown to have multi-universal effects as well.

Id pick Thanos with the IG (at its peak power) over pretty much anyone. The IG in its prime was only this close from GOD himself.

Originally posted by Galan007

I am aware. Hence 'multi-universal'.

That's cool, it's your opinion, but I do have a question.
Now 'multi' is more than one, if you had to guess, how many you think?

When the Incomplete IG operated in "Countless UniverseS?"

Originally posted by Sundipped

Well we saw what only a "psychic" wave was able to accomplish. Safe to say if Thanos really put out using other abilities or in conjunction with the psychic one he displayed, it would be more potent.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Current IG IS the IG Thanos wielded.

... Current IG is all powerful but it's scale of influence restricted to its native reality.

---------------------------------------------

Incomplete IG: (a few feats in my mind)

1)simultaneous omnipresence across many universes,
2)merged Two entire universeS (one being 616) from over 100 universeS away,
3)tanked and owned the UN with a thought,
4)jumping around the Time-stream (alternate Timelines) with a thought,

And the Incomplete IG was just a "taste of Godhood"

... "just a taste" ... while what Thanos had (complete IG) gave him a mouth full of Godhood:

Originally posted by Galan007
I'd rather not play guessing games. /shrug

I am aware. Hence 'multi-universal'.

Originally posted by Mr Master
'multi-universal' ... you say, the complete IG was.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Now imagine if his intentions would have been of a destructive nature.
Ripples have also been shown produced by the gems in Black September Infinity as a result of a side effect (forcible seperation). Those waves were warping multiple realities.

Later in All New Exiles Infinity, the part of Nemesis' energy was ending reality and had multi-universal effects as well:

http://i.imgur.com/x2GhSZB.jpg

..........

http://i.imgur.com/bUIcmEN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lnqvmxa.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cool, so we both understand it was an entire duplicate 616 universe.
The fact that it was independent doesn't add anything imo.

Incomplete IG/Magus merged Two entire UniverseS in an instant. Simple.

👆 Yup. Never said otherwise.

IG (minus reality gem) Magus merged 2 independent universes in an instant. Simple.

Originally posted by Mr Master

I been knowing the difference between Pockets and full blown Universes for many years now.

But the info is useful for the onlookers I guess.

I know that you're aware of their meaning. Which is why i wasn't explaining the meaning, but rather explaining my reasoning behind my claims of it being a pocket universe. Go re-read my post carefully to understand.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Actually nah.

In a conversation between Thanos and his doppelganger during Infinity War,
the doppelganger suggests going to Another Universe to get
Another IG and therefore become "God" of that Universe.

Thanos tells em,
"unfortunately I have sentimental attachments to This (616) Reality"

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15944490/Thanos_Not_Supreme_IG.jpg.html
------------------------------------------------

Interesting,
with an Alternate IG Thanos suggests he wouldn't control 616,
yet,
the with the 616 IG Thanos confidently states:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15944492/Thanos_Supreme_IG.jpg.html

"The Supreme Being of THIS" (616) "and All UniverseS" (alternates with other IGs)
)

Warlock & the infinity Watch #10 is part of Infinity War........

Anyway, not sure what you're teaching me here, because im the one who presented this scan, and i read it just fine myself.

I agree, it's interesting how Thanos' claim in SS v3 #44 is contradicted by the scene i posted.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Well then, you should know that means he performed a multi-universal feat,
from over 100 universeS away.

That was with his Incomplete IG, which was just a taste of Godhood (complete IG)

I already know. Which is why i wasn't arguing about it. You're free to quote me when i said otherwise.

Originally posted by Mr Master
===================

Thanos with the 616 IG popping out of the 616 Universe
into an Alternate Universe representing the Pre-historic era,
and then he pops into another Alternate Universe
where the Earth has reached its death.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12429414/IG_Time.jpg.html

In this scene, Thanos is literally Omni-Present:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12429415/IG_Space.jpg.html

============================

Considering Thanos could pop into any point in Time he wished,
no past or future Timeline was out of his reach.
Considering Magus/Incomplete IG was able to manipulate multiple entire UniverseS,
while outside 616.

Ah......Thanos utilizing the time gem; im sure Starlin intended Thanos to be hopping across alternate universes........

Though tell me something; the current IG has a time gem as well, and does this prevent it from being limited to its native reality? No it doesn't (New Avengers v3 #2):

http://i.imgur.com/XY8zcOK.jpg?1

It's been confirmed several times, you know......

So going by your logic, current IG should be not limited to one universe, because well, there's always the time gem which can make you pop across alternate universes.

Yeah, Thanos' beyond universal feat is very impressive, but it only proves that he can affect multiple realities, not that it cements his one statement which has been contradicted dozens of times (saying that he is universal). I already posted the scan in which he says in the same issue that he's supreme within one reality.

And im not even saying that the IG isn't capable of such a feat, just that your interpretation of the scene is incorrect, imo.

Not sure how Thanos/space gem, being in multiple places at once is impressive.

....Also, i take it that according to you, all realities = omniverse?

Originally posted by Mr Master

So, there we are, they depicted more destruction
but that should be enuff.

In a later issue off-Tie-In, we learned just how much damage Thanos' Actuality Ripple caused:

Thanos omni-directional psychic wave of power (astral ripple)
that billowed outward of 616 and devastated reality till the ends of the Omniverse,
then proceeded to pass BEYOND the Omniverse and into the Beyond Realm,
where it still continued to devastate reality even OUTSIDE the infinities of creation.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12437792/IG_beyond_Universe_2.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12437793/IG_beyond_Universe_3.jpg.html

The Beyond Realm.

What is Beyond All of Eternity?
What is the final ascension?
What is Beyond everything?

Where can this place be where All of Eternity "dwindles into insignificance?"

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17500774/BY5-1.jpg.html

The Beyond Realm.

So, the realm of the Beyonders are beyond the omniverse now. Okay, let's look at the evidence.

First off, when you claim that the Beyonders' universe is beyond the omniverse you're also acknowledging that Kubik and Kosmos are capable of getting there by themselves (much like Thanos' IG power reached the universe).

Then again, a 2006 handbook says that the Kubik/Kosmos tour was across the multiverse:

http://i.imgur.com/pxn6PVB.jpg?1

.......and one of the universes Kubik/Kosmos visited during their little tour in Fantastic Four Annual #23, was the realm of the Beyonders. So we know that Beyonders' universe, must be located within the mainstream multiverse. Which also makes sense, because i find it hard to believe that Kubik/Kosmos can travel outside the omniverse. Though it is most certainly far away from Earth-616, possibly at the very ends of the multiverse, considering that their universe bare no similarities to 616 and its alternates.

It's a handbook, but it's better than nothing, no? Because claiming that the realm of Beyonders is beyond the omnniverse is literally based on nothing (no offense, but......that's the truth)

Also, we have High Evolutionary visit the museum of the Beyonders in their own universe (going outside the omniverse itself, apparently, even though evidently, there was still stars/planets just like any regular universe), HE/Beyonders handbooks:

http://i.imgur.com/Jog7wfA.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/I9Uu3Wp.jpg?1

on panel, from Avengers Annual #17:

http://i.imgur.com/g1EtjeS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2QSyBK4.jpg

Seems also like normal space, certainly not beyond the omniverse, imo.

So tell me, do you acknowledge that HE, Kubik and Kosmos can travel beyond the omniverse???

Also, i know that there isn't an issue saying that the Beyonders realm is beyond the omniverse, so puttiing that aside........are you really basing this off the fact that Eternity dwindles into insignificance?
So that means you think that Eternity is the embodiment of the omniverse according to you? Which is......just wrong (isn't debatable), and you know it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Goddess's will was stronger than both Warlock and Magus.
But, it doesn't matter about who was wielding "The Cosmic Egg."

The statement was made with certainty by Starlin!

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14914085/IG_over_CCU.jpg.html

Also ... Starlin had the Goddess out to conquer "All Realities" with the 30 CCUs!

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14775598/Goddess1.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14775599/Goddess2.jpg.html

Yet Starlin was clear:

"Experience has shown that the CCUs are Nearly all powerful [b]but Not quite!

The Infinity Gems are a FAR More Potent Force."

[/B]

Hmm.........

i remember in that same arc, in Warlock chronicles #3 (Written by Starlin as well), it's stated that a cosmic cube is as all powerful as the infinity gems used in unison:

http://i.imgur.com/4VETzD6.jpg

..........just saying 🙂

In any case, it sure does support your argument, but not enough, imo. Because there are far more evidence saying that Thanos was supreme across one reality.

Originally posted by Mr Master

As for the IG making one "God" ...

Jim Stalin the Writer/Creator of the IG series claimed Thanos was "God"

[B]Interviewed in "Marvel Age".

Marvel Age is a Marvel title specifically designed to get the intricate details
to stories by the Writers themselves of said stories.

Jim Starlin himself adds:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14839179/igmakegod2zt8.jpg.html

"I've done the good side of God and the bad side of God,
I've gone as far as I can with the Infinity Gauntlet"

***********

Remember, the LT can't interfere with the natural order of things.

So if TOAA (Starlin in this instance) decided to make Thanos God, then it is so. 🙂

[/B]

.........Thanos was called God many times, as you know. So that Marvel Age interview isn't teaching us something new.

On another note though here's a Marvel age issue which says: Thanos was the supreme being in the universe:

http://i.imgur.com/dshi1ej.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/XGAtVqW.jpg?1

"Dominate a dimension"..........??

That's from Marvel Age #99, after Starlin's silver surfer run (or at least issue #44) prior to IG (where Thanos' "supreme in all universes" claim happened).........interesting, no?

So yeah, i agree that Thanos is "God".......on a universal scale, capable of affecting multiple realities.
Of course, anyone who read the arc could go on and post a dozen of scans confirming that. Let's see; it's stated dozens of times on panel, confirmed in the handbooks, encyclopedias, indexes, interviews, guides, you name it........yet, we have to stick to Thanos' one claim?

Well sorry, but i hope you can see why i don't agree with you.

And like i said before, if anything the fact that it was a universal event as opposed to a multiversal one, should be proof enough. The "Beyond universal" feat that Thanos had was (as you know) from Warlock & the infinity watch #4, which wasn't even a tie-in......Warlock & The Infinity Watch began after IG.

Also, not sure how the UN showing, is multiversal?

Originally posted by Mr Master
I found the extra proof to cement my claim:

Imo, this is definitely the reason behind the Time ripples 1000+ Years later.

Perhaps. Though there's no confirmation. But in any case, affecting the future doesn't prove that it's fully multiversal in scope. Recently in ultimate comics ultimatum, Kang (invisible woman of this reality), was going to save that alt. Earth's future with the Infinity Gems (which are limited to their native reality):

http://i.imgur.com/zj9GP6m.jpg

So.....

Originally posted by abhilegend
Current IG IS the IG Thanos wielded.

IG Thanos had confirmed multi-universal feat, so IG's current standing is completely irrelevant.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Incomplete Infinity Gauntlet missing the reality gem was
devastating Reality when Magus and Adam clashed for control of it.

After Eternity//Infinity joined the battle,
Galactus and company couldn't outrace the ripple effect caused by this.
In fact, the farther the blast radiated, it picked up in velocity.

That's eerie similar to a post that I made in that massive IG vs Dawn of Time Anti Monitor thread a while back.

Originally posted by Sundipped
^^
Also, the Gauntlet missing the reality gem was devastating the reality [B]indirectly when Magus and Adam clashed for control of it.

Galactus and company couldn't outrace the ripple effect caused by this. In fact, the farther the blast radiated, it picked up in velocity.

[/B]

What a coincidence. mmm

Originally posted by operator616
Hmm.........

i remember in that same arc, in Warlock chronicles #3 (Written by Starlin as well), it's stated that a cosmic cube is as all powerful as the infinity gems used in unison:

http://i.imgur.com/4VETzD6.jpg

..........just saying 🙂

To be fair, that scan states that the cubes do in fact have limitations. It takes billions of souls bound together to overcome these limitations which are due to having force of will. So in essence, one needs prep with CCs to reach the unrestricted might of the IG in its totality.

Originally posted by operator616
Later in All New Exiles Infinity, the part of Nemesis' energy was ending reality and had multi-universal effects as well:

http://i.imgur.com/x2GhSZB.jpg

..........

http://i.imgur.com/bUIcmEN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lnqvmxa.jpg

👆

Originally posted by Galan007

Yep. As in more than one, but less than infinite.

So ... how can the complete IG be anything less?