Originally posted by Blazing Storm
OBD calcs are full of BS as they rely on pixel-scaling. Author's don;t draw to scale.On topic, Lanza is far above city level and should be hitting Island level (atleast 90 km in length). They should be able to walk 30km per day.
Yeah, I agree with you on the first thing. Just like in DBZ when Vegeta was drawn looking like he was as big as mountains on Namek.
However... You are cracked on the second thing. I already posted a scan showing the sand dude to be nearly as big as the pillars of LN, making it way smaller than town sized. It's at the most multi-building sized. All of LN is at the most small town sized. Island sized? No... no, just no... No matter how much you want to assume the distance they walked or time frame, there's nothing you can say to disprove the scans.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaI've already debunked all these arguments before. I'm unable to post links now because of my post count. Visuals are inconsistent as writers don't draw to scale.
However... You are cracked on the second thing. I already posted a scan showing the sand dude to be nearly as big as the pillars of LN, making it way smaller than town sized. It's at the most multi-building sized. All of LN is at the most small town sized. Island sized? No... no, just no... No matter how much you want to assume the distance they walked or time frame, there's nothing you can say to disprove the scans. [/B]
Las Noches appears only as big as the sand guy because it was several kilometers away, while the sand guy was just a dozen meters in front of them. Its like saying the person in front of me is bigger than a mountain a few kilometers away, and a terrible argument.
FYI, the sand guy later appears inside Las Noches, when Ichigo rushes in to fight Ulquiorra, and his height is nowhere close to the roof. So that argument is outright fallacious.
How the heck can LN be only town sized when:
1. It has a sky and a weather of its own.
2. Its end is not even visible when they are inside, and the human eye can see for 3 miles upto the horizon.
3. It takes 3 days walk to reach a gate from the corner
4. Ichigo and his friends ran for several hours, yet its size didn't change from their perspective.
Originally posted by ZamielYep. You?
Bringer Light, that you?
Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Should be small country level at most (probably the size of Belgium).Average Island level sounds right
Idk a country just seems way too large... Id agree with small island or city
I take back my mountain level classification in my posts earlier because that would make lanza as strong as the lower s class spirit gun used against sensui. This is clearly not the case
Originally posted by chasedownWhat does Sensui or YYH have to do with this? They are two different series, independent of each others' power.
Idk a country just seems way too large... Id agree with small island or cityI take back my mountain level classification in my posts earlier because that would make lanza as strong as the lower s class spirit gun used against sensui. This is clearly not the case
Island level is beyond mountain level.
Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya> No proof
no, just no.
Originally posted by Blazing Storm
What does Sensui or YYH have to do with this? They are two different series, independent of each others' power.Island level is beyond mountain level.
> No proof
Im just saying that would put lanza and a lower s class spirit gun as equal strength which i dont think is true......ma b i mustve got how the power labels were ranked. If thats the case the i think lanza's power is evn smaller
Originally posted by yungz22Whether Yusuke's reigun destroys only a wall, or a mountain, or a planet is irrelevant as it has nothing to do with Ulquiorra's power.
Yusuke's spirit gun busted a mountain so the comaparison he was trying to make is relavent.
They are both different characters from different verses
Originally posted by chasedownThis has nothing to do with YYH but the reigun is a concentrated attack. Sensui's normal shockwaves can destroy mountains, and the reigun should have a lot more potency then them. And the Makai world is much more durable than the human world. So that's small country level IMO.
Im just saying that would put lanza and a lower s class spirit gun as equal strength which i dont think is true......ma b i mustve got how the power labels were ranked. If thats the case the i think lanza's power is evn smaller
Lanza is only Island level.
Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Whether Yusuke's reigun destroys only a wall, or a mountain, or a planet is irrelevant as it has nothing to do with Ulquiorra's power.They are both different characters from different verses
This has nothing to do with YYH but the reigun is a concentrated attack. Sensui's normal shockwaves can destroy mountains, and the reigun should have a lot more potency then them. And the Makai world is much more durable than the human world. So that's small country level IMO.
Lanza is only Island level.
well when deciding the strength of a character to determine how powerful a technique is so that the result we find can be used in future crossover battles. Id say a comparison to a mountain busting technique is pretty relavant. Just to get any idea of its strength.
When was it determined that matter in both makai world and human world was different in durability. Its just a world where demons live. Matter should work the same. unless it where proven to be like the sereitei world where matter was made of reishi.
Originally posted by yungz22Yeah, but why can't Ulquiorra be as strong as characters in YYH? We shouldn't downgrade a feat just because it puts a certain verse on par with another.
well when deciding the strength of a character to determine how powerful a technique is so that the result we find can be used in future crossover battles. Id say a comparison to a mountain busting technique is pretty relavant. Just to get any idea of its strength.
Btw even Sensui's shockwave (the air pressure of his punch) could smash a mountain.
When was it determined that matter in both makai world and human world was different in durability. Its just a world where demons live. Matter should work the same. unless it where proven to be like the sereitei world where matter was made of reishi.Sensui couldn't use even 1/5th of his power in the real world, was creating tremors across the city, and was causing the cave to crumble apart.
In the makai, he could easily go full power without any worries and still doesn't
Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras managed to destroy roughly 40 cityblocks worth of surface area, and Lanza del Relámpago is even more powerful and of a wider area-of-effectCero Oscuras is city+ level, while Lanza is Island level.
Pre-SS arc Ichigo already had Multi-city block feats.
Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Yeah, but why can't Ulquiorra be as strong as characters in YYH? We shouldn't downgrade a feat just because it puts a certain verse on par with another.Btw even Sensui's shockwave (the air pressure of his punch) could smash a mountain.
Sensui couldn't use even 1/5th of his power in the real world, was creating tremors across the city, and was causing the cave to crumble apart.
In the makai, he could easily go full power without any worries and still doesn't
Cero Oscuras is city+ level, while Lanza is Island level.
Pre-SS arc Ichigo already had Multi-city block feats.
Are you retarded?
Ichigo has no feats that put him even CLOSE to city level before he trained in the Dangai world.
Since you're using powerscaling to determine the potency and AOE of Yusuke's soul gun, I can do the same to determine Ulquiorra's lanza.
See this? This is Aizen's most powerful demonstrated attack. Comparing the AOE of this and Ulquiorra's lanza, you saying lanza is island level is suggesting that Ulquiorra can destroy more than Aizen can. That's completely ABSURD. Aizen is MUCH more powerful than Ichigo, and even his strongest attack made an explosion nowhere near the size of Karakura town. Now to assume Ulquiorra's power, we would have to scale it with Aizen's. Aizen was still confident that he could beat Ichigo when he was in bankai hollow form, the form that decimated Ichigo. Therefor we can accurately say that Aizen, at least while transformed with the Hogyoku, could easily beat Ulquiorra. Ulquiorra's lanza is therefor much weaker than Aizen's cero(thing). I don't know how you can say that it's island level when a much stronger character is incapable of even a much smaller feat.
Nit-picking statements and scaling to figure out how big LN is proves nothing. Aizen couldn't even come close to town busting. Ichigo could, but only with final getsuga tensho. No one in ALL of bleach has come to island busting level or country busting level yet, even currently in the manga. Unless they have feats that suggest so, they can NOT.
👆
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Are you retarded?Ichigo has no feats that put him even CLOSE to city level before he trained in the Dangai world.
Since you're using powerscaling to determine the potency and AOE of Yusuke's soul gun, I can do the same to determine Ulquiorra's lanza.
See this? This is Aizen's most powerful demonstrated attack. Comparing the AOE of this and Ulquiorra's lanza, you saying lanza is island level is suggesting that Ulquiorra can destroy more than Aizen can. That's completely [B]ABSURD
. Aizen is MUCH more powerful than Ichigo, and even his strongest attack made an explosion nowhere near the size of Karakura town. Now to assume Ulquiorra's power, we would have to scale it with Aizen's. Aizen was still confident that he could beat Ichigo when he was in bankai hollow form, the form that decimated Ichigo. Therefor we can accurately say that Aizen, at least while transformed with the Hogyoku, could easily beat Ulquiorra. Ulquiorra's lanza is therefor much weaker than Aizen's cero(thing). I don't know how you can say that it's island level when a much stronger character is incapable of even a much smaller feat.Nit-picking statements and scaling to figure out how big LN is proves nothing. Aizen couldn't even come close to town busting. Ichigo could, but only with final getsuga tensho. No one in ALL of bleach has come to island busting level or country busting level yet, even currently in the manga. Unless they have feats that suggest so, they can NOT.
👆 [/B]
I def feel like aizen could blow up a city maybe even island level. With the hogyoku thats not impossible. im kinda wishy washy with this topic because i definitely feel like ulq could destroy a city just not an island because its as you said hes clearly not stronger than aizen.
i feel like ulq should have been the number 1 espada as he showed way more power than stark did.
Seems like this needs some serious debunking...
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaWhat? Its retarded to think Lanza is anything below city level.
Are you retarded?
Ichigo has no feats that put him even CLOSE to city level before he trained in the Dangai world.Lol, your downplay is terrible.
- Fodders in Bleach (like pre-SS arc Ichigo and Shikai Ikkaku) are multi city block+. Lol at Espada level characters and especially top tiers not being town level
- Lanza dwarfed Las Noches which is larger than a city
- Shikai Ichigo during the Ginjo fight destroyed a city sized dimension
- Yamamoto's Ennetsu Jigoku would have destroyed an area exponentially larger than a city, as stated by Aizen.
- Hitsugaya can freeze anything within a 24 kilometer diameter (city sized)
Lol at Ichigo not being town level other than dangai.
Since you're using powerscaling to determine the potency and AOE of Yusuke's soul gun, I can do the same to determine Ulquiorra's lanza.What powerscaling did I use for Yusuke? Did you even read my argument?
See this? This is Aizen's most powerful demonstrated attack. Comparing the AOE of this and Ulquiorra's lanza, you saying lanza is island level is suggesting that Ulquiorra can destroy more than Aizen can. That's completely ABSURD.AoE =/= attack potency. Try again
Aizen's blast may appear smaller, but the potency behind the blast is far more than Lanza's.
Aizen is MUCH more powerful than Ichigo, and even his strongest attack made an explosion nowhere near the size of Karakura town.Super Buu is much stronger than Frieza, but his attacks don't even destroy the earth.
By your logic, Frieza shouldn't be a planet buster.
Now to assume Ulquiorra's power, we would have to scale it with Aizen's.Wrong. You need to do the vice versa.
Just like you scale Buu's power from Frieza, you need to scale Aizen's power from Ulquiorra's
Aizen was still confident that he could beat Ichigo when he was in bankai hollow form, the form that decimated Ichigo. Therefor we can accurately say that Aizen, at least while transformed with the Hogyoku, could easily beat Ulquiorra. Ulquiorra's lanza is therefor much weaker than Aizen's cero(thing). I don't know how you can say that it's island level when a much stronger character is incapable of even a much smaller feat.Yes, Ulquiorra's Lanza maybe weaker than Fragor (potency wise), but that doesn't prevent it from being Island level.
If Lanza is Island level, Fragor is Island+ or higher in terms of attack potency even if the blast radius is small.
Nit-picking statements and scaling to figure out how big LN is proves nothing. Aizen couldn't even come close to town busting. Ichigo could, but only with final getsuga tensho.Those are not simply statements and scaling. Its called exposition, which Kubo has put in the manga to portray the characters' DC.
Author's word > your opinion.
No one in ALL of bleach has come to island busting level or country busting level yet, even currently in the manga. Unless they have feats that suggest so, they can NOT.👆Bullshit.
Yamamoto's bankai can destroy Soul society which is atleast continent sized with its mere presence, stated twice in the manga.
Originally posted by chasedownThat's not a good way to judge Aizen's power. For example, DBZ characters don't destroy planets or cities everytime they fire a blast. And its the same case here with Aizen.
looking at the blast from far away it wasnt in Karakura town but im sure if the blast was in karakura it would definitely destoroyed.
The blast looking small doesn't mean its potency is anything below Island level.
Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Seems like this needs some serious debunking...What? Its retarded to think Lanza is anything below city level.
Lol, your downplay is terrible.
- Fodders in Bleach (like pre-SS arc Ichigo and Shikai Ikkaku) are multi city block+. Lol at Espada level characters and especially top tiers not being town level
- Lanza dwarfed Las Noches which is larger than a city
- Shikai Ichigo during the Ginjo fight destroyed a city sized dimension
- Yamamoto's Ennetsu Jigoku would have destroyed an area exponentially larger than a city, as stated by Aizen.
- Hitsugaya can freeze anything within a 24 kilometer diameter (city sized)Lol at Ichigo not being town level other than dangai.
What powerscaling did I use for Yusuke? Did you even read my argument?
AoE =/= attack potency. Try again
Aizen's blast may appear smaller, but the potency behind the blast is far more than Lanza's.
Super Buu is much stronger than Frieza, but his attacks don't even destroy the earth.
By your logic, Frieza shouldn't be a planet buster.
Wrong. You need to do the vice versa.
Just like you scale Buu's power from Frieza, you need to scale Aizen's power from Ulquiorra's
Yes, Ulquiorra's Lanza maybe weaker than Fragor (potency wise), but that doesn't prevent it from being Island level.
If Lanza is Island level, Fragor is Island+ or higher in terms of attack potency even if the blast radius is small.
Those are not simply statements and scaling. Its called exposition, which Kubo has put in the manga to portray the characters' DC.
Author's word > your opinion.
Bullshit.
Yamamoto's bankai can destroy Soul society which is atleast continent sized with its mere presence, stated twice in the manga.
That's not a good way to judge Aizen's power. For example, DBZ characters don't destroy planets or cities everytime they fire a blast. And its the same case here with Aizen.
The blast looking small doesn't mean its potency is anything below Island level.
A for effort with the attempt at a debunk, but let me point a few things out, princess.
"What? Its retarded to think Lanza is anything below city level."
Considering the fact that you have no basis on which to back that assumption up, yes.
"Lol, your downplay is terrible.
- Fodders in Bleach (like pre-SS arc Ichigo and Shikai Ikkaku) are multi city block+. Lol at Espada level characters and especially top tiers not being town level
- Lanza dwarfed Las Noches which is larger than a city
- Shikai Ichigo during the Ginjo fight destroyed a city sized dimension
- Yamamoto's Ennetsu Jigoku would have destroyed an area exponentially larger than a city, as stated by Aizen.
- Hitsugaya can freeze anything within a 24 kilometer diameter (city sized)
Lol at Ichigo not being town level other than dangai."
Lol, your Bleach wanking is terrible.
- Fodders in Bleach like Shikai Ikkaku have absolutely zero statements or feats that point to them being capable of even small building busting. It's cute that you think it's okay to make baseless assumptions and statements about characters when the only "proof" you have is your own twisted, biased opinion.
- Las Noches has never been stated to be anywhere near city sized. The fact that Ichigo's cero also dwarfed LN when it wasn't even as large as released Yammy is enough to disprove this. 👆
- That never happened. He destroyed an illusion barrier in bankai.
- Aizen said Yamamoto's attack would destroy the barrier covering the city and potentially cause humans to be subjugated to harm in the vicinity.
- First off, it's 3 RI, or approximately 12 km, not 24, you douche bag Bleach wanker. Secondly, Hitsugaya uses the entire sky as a medium for his freezing. Causing snow to rain down for 12 km is NOT city busting, but merely having a technique that can cover a 12 km diameter. That's like saying that a collection of rain clouds can city bust. Literally.
Lol at someone who has demonstrated to be incapable of even destroying a single hill to be a town buster. 👆
"What powerscaling did I use for Yusuke? Did you even read my argument?"
You power scaled by saying Yusuke could mountain bust even though he never has demonstrated being able to, iirc.
"AoE =/= attack potency. Try again
Aizen's blast may appear smaller, but the potency behind the blast is far more than Lanza's."
Obviously, but he still hasn't shown anything capable of town busting. If he had used a weaker attack to town bust, then that attack could easily town+ bust. However, he has not, meaning that he is incapable of town busting with even his strongest demonstrated attack. 👆
"Super Buu is much stronger than Frieza, but his attacks don't even destroy the earth.
By your logic, Frieza shouldn't be a planet buster."
No, by my logic, Frieza destroyed planets casually because he wanted to for whatever reason. Super Buu didn't because he wanted a challenge. He wanted someone who could fight him on par, without getting utterly shat on. Even Frieza wanted to fight SSJ Goku, and said he didn't destroy Namek for that SOLE reason, even though he set it to blow after five minutes to ensure Goku's death.
By your logic, someone who wanted to do as much damage possible couldn't town bust, even though someone much weaker could "island bust"... Hmm... Do you see the problem here?
"Wrong. You need to do the vice versa.
Just like you scale Buu's power from Frieza, you need to scale Aizen's power from Ulquiorra's"
Wrong. You need to do the opposite.
Since Ulquiorra has no real definable feats, you need to scale his power down from Aizen's. Aizen's power is very clear. He can mountain bust with his strongest attack. This instantly proves that LN is nowhere near town sized, and lanza is nowhere near island level, unless you're also suggesting that Ulquiorra is MUCH more powerful than Aizen. What you're saying is that Aizen's most potent explosive cero has less AOE than Ulquiorra's most potent lanza(which is basically his more powerful version of a cero that can also be used as a sword). That is ridiculous.
"Those are not simply statements and scaling. Its called exposition, which Kubo has put in the manga to portray the characters' DC.
Author's word > your opinion."
A few vague statements related to distance =/= exposition.
They said it would take three days to get to Las Noche's. They didn't say how far it was, how fast they were walking or how long they rested in between walking. Therefor, assuming the size of the structure they were headed to is completely baseless and stupid. LN was big enough to hold ten complexes, not ten cities. The complexes could have been any size. The size of LN was never even hinted at. Another way to estimate though, is the fact that Chad could bust a huge hole in one of the walls and still be visible in size contrast.
" Bullshit.
Yamamoto's bankai can destroy Soul society which is atleast continent sized with its mere presence, stated twice in the manga."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
pile
Soul society? Continent sized? LOL. If it was continent sized, then why was a single hill the bulk of the entire area? Sokyoku hill was huge even compared to all of SS. If SS was continent sized, that would make Sokyoku hill as large as several mountain ranges. Even Mayuri's bankai was almost a quarter of the size of the hill, and it wasn't even that much bigger than Uryu. The Sokyoku's nearly DWARFED the hill, and Ichigo was as big as it's beak.
lol, continent sized... 😖hifty:
"That's not a good way to judge Aizen's power. For example, DBZ characters don't destroy planets or cities everytime they fire a blast. And its the same case here with Aizen.
The blast looking small doesn't mean its potency is anything below Island level."
The blast being small means Ulquiorra's blast was smaller. This is because they were both as potent as the characters could make them. You can argue the potency all you want, but the fact of the matter is that you have no way of knowing the potency of the attack. In DBZ, they casually shoot blasts that only destroy small portions of the ground, but when they want to, a blast just as small can destroy entire planets just because it's not as condensed. Aizen shot his strongest attack at Ichigo, and it didn't even compare to town busting. Ulquiorra's much weaker, so his lanza has nowhere near the same level of destructive capacity that Aizen's does. You might as well say that Ichigo's getsuga is more potent just because it has a smaller AOE. The rule of thumb is "whoever can destroy more is stronger", not "Whoever has smaller explosions can destroy the most within said explosion". 👆