Ulquiorra's lanza is indeed country level

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Yes, Bawabawa [B]may be many times faster than a peak human, and they may have taken a few hours to reach it.

If Bawabawa can slither at 50 or 100 miles/hr, he can cross a large Island or a small country in the given time. So better not bring up Bawabawa since his speed is unknown and so is the timeframe.

The initial calc: http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?bt=69327 (5.6 km is small city sized)

The latest calc: http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=20129 (39-40 Megatons is city+)

There are many things that contradict Lanza being only town level:

1. Neither Ichigo or Renji or Uryu objected to Nel's statement after they had reached Las Noches. This means they couldn't even see the farthest end.

2. Even if you use peak human speeds for Ichigo and co. (20 km/hr) and consider they ran towards it for 3-4 hours, its over 50 km.

3. Las Noches has a sky and a climate of its own, and its roof was so high that everyone thought it was a real sky and not an artificial roof. So its height can't just be 500m

As for the scaling calc, the mistake he made is that Bawabawa was closer to the observer than Las Noches in the scan he used: http://i35.mangapanda.com/bleach/247/bleach-1589767.jpg

They hadn't reached Las Noches yet and were still riding. So once Bawabawa reaches the wall, he may appear much smaller than he did in the scan. [/B]

Renji ran ahead of Bawabawa to fight the sand guy. That alone makes the entire statement, and therefor your argument, bull shit.

Again, LN is about as big as three sand dunes. Even massively highballing as much as possible, that's only town level. I can repost if you like.

1. Yes, that's because LN is filled with other smaller buildings, obstructing their view. Genius.

2. Why does that matter again? The distance TO LN has NOTHING to do with how big LN itself is. Try again.

3. Yes, there is such a thing as air conditioning. And in Harry Potter, the great hall's ceiling was bewitched to show the sky outside. I guess that's also continent level, huh?

This, again, doesn't matter. The distance to it doesn't make the actual structure any larger or smaller. Retard.

Except no, we see it moving at the same speed it was chasing Nel. Not incredibly fast. Lol the given time of few hours? Does it look like hours passed in the manga? Besides, the fact that Bawa admittesl does this just throws out the previous running as a clear inconsistency, as it would have to be far, far faster and for so much longer in odes for them not to get any closer.

Cha to read. If accepted then cool, City level. It'd still be a fraction of the OPs listing. But this calc is based off a Town sized Noches right?

1. They've never been there before.
2. No timeframe given, plus inconsistent to later showing.
3. The sky that had a liter hole blown out showing the outside? That's not how a sky works.

Yes, being a second away is a real issue.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Renji ran ahead of Bawabawa to fight the sand guy. That alone makes the entire statement, and therefor your argument, bull shit.

Again, LN is about as big as three sand dunes. Even massively highballing as much as possible, that's only town level. I can repost if you like.

1. Yes, that's because LN is filled with other smaller buildings, obstructing their view. Genius.

2. Why does that matter again? The distance TO LN has NOTHING to do with how big LN itself is. Try again.

Apart from it not changing in size.

3. Yes, there is such a thing as air conditioning. And in Harry Potter, the great hall's ceiling was bewitched to show the sky outside. I guess that's also continent level, huh?

that's not the case here. the roof itself looks like the sky

Originally posted by BloodRain
Except no, we see it moving at the same speed it was chasing Nel. Not incredibly fast. Lol the given time of few hours? Does it look like hours passed in the manga? Besides, the fact that Bawa admittesl does this just throws out the previous running as a clear inconsistency, as it would have to be far, far faster and for so much longer in odes for them not to get any closer.

This is the

Cha to read. If accepted then cool, City level. It'd still be a fraction of the OPs listing. But this calc is based off a Town sized Noches right?

1. They've never been there before.
2. No timeframe given, plus inconsistent to later showing.
3. The sky that had a liter hole blown out showing the outside? That's not how a sky works.

Besides, they also have an idea of how large it is after they've travelled all the way towards it.

2. Ichigo could run for almost a day on a treadmill without collapsing: http://oi39.tinypic.com/k4ufys.jpg.

Here he got tired and was sweating a lot after running that distance: http://i40.mangapanda.com/bleach/245/bleach-1589675.jpg

Meaning he had been atleast running for a few hours, to get tired

3. If the artificial sky was so low, they would have easily realised it was just the artificial roof and not the real sky.

Yes, being a second away is a real issue.

The time it took to reach the wall still unknown, and it could have been a significant distance from the wall

Further reasons why Nel's statement should be considered:
1. She is well aware when she is in trouble so she is not dumb in any way

She is even smarter than any kid her age for knowing she is in trouble and figuring out aizen and espada's personalities

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QzYZU90CbcI/TlVLp3sBYOI/AAAAAAAAFPo/s4q4UKg5E3A/006.jpg?imgmax=2000

2. She is very knowledgable when it comes to heuco mondo and LN

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iIbMHVVkhMA/TlVKEpX3GtI/AAAAAAAAE6s/o-CivPEFlac/008.jpg?imgmax=2000

3. She didnt know about the preverion espada so she doesn't bullshit ichigo

If she doesnt know she doesnt say anything

This means that her 3 days statement is not a lie.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RCQagegUq-E/TlVND3DBGBI/AAAAAAAAAJM/HK7Tl6x2WNQ/011.jpg?imgmax=2000

4. Ichigo and his friends never objected to her statement, and this includes a genius like Ishida, who is generally very observant.

Even he knew that LN being 3 days long isn't a stretch at all.

Except based on what we know and not a random guess, yeah. Not that fast. So what's to suggest they took a day riding?

5km is half of small City size.

Because lets take the random child seriously.

Not necessarily. Point is it wasn't like our sky, if it was real.

Because they go from A to B while Ulq is discussing what they're doing.

None of that disputes that she just says things, like the days thing which is evidently wrong.

Now, let's mash your views together:
Ichigo can run for nearly a day, so running for nearly a day.
Bawa is slower than Renji, who wasn't blitzing. So he's slower than Ichigo.
Meaning they'd have to be traveling for over a day to be in the same 'not getting closer' position.
Which means Bawa would need to travel several times that to get there, which points to nearly a week.
(Even though Ichigo literally treats Nel like someone he's shared a cab with, because it was not that long)

Ignoring the whole Ichigo Ulq fight where the outer dome is shown.

But okay. Benefit of the doubt. Tell me how big it is, an actual size down to the km. Use all the sources put together and gather an answer for your argument. Just avoid those obviously inconsistent points.

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Because Renji is superhuman.

The size of the sand dunes and the buildings is unknown. this is a spiritual world and unlike any desert in the real world, so the physics doesn't apply here

No it does. LN appeared huge even from that distance.

Apart from it not changing in size.

Because they use magic, duh.

that's not the case here. the roof itself looks like the sky

So you're saying Renji is faster than Ichigo, who was by association, slower than Bawabawa?

So physics only apply when they determine things like a meteor being on fire, the space it takes for souls to reside, and how high clouds are, right? So in other words, you only use "real" physics when you think they benefit you. Way to discredit your entire argument at once. clapping

You just said it yourself, the size didn't change. That clearly points to some kind of desert mirage or something, discrediting the entire argument. Not to mention that IT DOESN'T MATTER. THE DISTANCE FROM WHERE THEY STARTED TO THE STRUCTURE ITSELF MEANS LESS THAN NOTHING. YOU'RE ENTIRE ARGUMENT IS BASELESS, AND NON-EXISTENT.

Duh.

Why does it matter what the ceiling looks like? That was the reason for pointing out Harry Potter, retard.

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
> Town sized
> Doesn't change in size despite them running for hours.

U wot m8??

And no one knows their speed or how much time they took

It was calced to be city level+ and thats assuming that author's draw everything to scale, WHICH THEY DON'T!

Hey wait, let me scale the planet's in DBZ in a similar way...http://lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-general/planet-namek-size-calc-legit-333524/

> Town level Frieza confirmed!

Except that Las Noches isn't your ordinary desert and was never shown to have extremely windy conditions

And if they watched the anime there is actually a vast cavern of almost as much space under the sand to. As they fight their way up from the bottom of the sand caves where the lost Shinigami was fighting in the filler anime episodes. The sand itself is immensely old and deep.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Except based on what we know and not a random guess, yeah. Not that fast. So what's to suggest they took a day riding?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So you're saying Renji is faster than Ichigo, who was by association, slower than Bawabawa?

Ichigo's shunpo speed >> Renji's shunpo speed >>> Ichigo's normal running speed

So physics only apply when they determine things like a meteor being on fire, the space it takes for souls to reside, and how high clouds are, right? So in other words, you only use "real" physics when you think they benefit you. Way to discredit your entire argument at once.

Unlike Seireitei and Naruto world.

You just said it yourself, the size didn't change. That clearly points to some kind of desert mirage or something, discrediting the entire argument.

Not to mention that IT DOESN'T MATTER. THE DISTANCE FROM WHERE THEY STARTED TO THE STRUCTURE ITSELF MEANS LESS THAN NOTHING.

Calm down.

Why does it matter what the ceiling looks like? That was the reason for pointing out Harry Potter, retard.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
And if they watched the anime there is actually a vast cavern of almost as much space under the sand to. As they fight their way up from the bottom of the sand caves where the lost Shinigami was fighting in the filler anime episodes. The sand itself is immensely old and deep.

Btw if we go by the Fade to Black movie, which was supervised by Kubo, it was stated that Seireitei is 200 spirit miles (800 km) long. And I believe Las Noches should be comparable to it in size

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Yeah. I generally prefer not to use fillers as they are non canon, unless supervised by kubo himself.

Btw if we go by the Fade to Black movie, which was supervised by Kubo, it was stated that Seireitei is 200 spirit miles (800 km) long. And I believe Las Noches should be comparable to it in size

Why do you believe it should be comparable in size?

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
No. Renji was using shunpo while Ichigo was just running.

Ichigo's shunpo speed >> Renji's shunpo speed >>> Ichigo's normal running speed

Except that Las Noches isn't your normal desert, and has a completely different atmosphere and wind conditions....things that are unknown.

Unlike Seireitei and Naruto world.

Lmao. Las Noches being a mirage was already debunked in the manga itself.

It means a lot because Las Noches appears huge from that distance. If Las Noches was just town or city sized, it would appear extremely small from hundreds of kilometers away.

Calm down.

Are you dense? If the ceiling was that close, they would have immediately realised it was a false ceiling

No he wasn't. Renji was running, just as they were. There's nothing to suggest otherwise.

Show me a scan that says that.

Yes, but it's possible that there was an illusion covering it, or something. Even if there wasn't, they weren't running hundreds of kilometers. They ran for an undefined time at human running speed. Then Bawabawa carried them much faster the rest of the way in a few minutes. That makes the most accurate calc of the distance about 15-16 miles, and that's high-balled. Bawabawa was just much faster. Not to mention the fact that LN looked the same size until they were right next to it.

How stupid can a human be?

They DID know that it was a fake sky, they were in a building for christ sake. Either way, what does it matter if they 1. Don't care enough to check, or 2. Can't see that the clouds were just painted on? The roof was just painted to look like that, idiot.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
http://i16.mangapanda.com/bleach/247/bleach-1589797.jpg

No he wasn't. Renji was running, just as they were. There's nothing to suggest otherwise.

They had already reached Las noches in the scan you provided, moron. The sand guy was long gone, and Bawabawa was stationary at that time.

Show me a scan that says that.

Yes, but it's possible that there was an illusion covering it, or something. Even if there wasn't, they weren't running hundreds of kilometers. They ran for an undefined time at human running speed. Then Bawabawa carried them much faster the rest of the way in a few minutes. That makes the most accurate calc of the distance about 15-16 miles, and that's high-balled. Bawabawa was just much faster. Not to mention the fact that LN looked the same size until they were right next to it.

They ran for several hours considering Ichigo got tired and started sweating...the same Ichigo who can go on a treadmill for almost a day.

At the very least 3 hours at peak human speeds, so 3 hours x 15 mph = 45 miles. Las Noches is larger than it since this distance was insignificant to change its size.

Btw since you yourself feel its 15-16 miles, it makes Lanza a city+ buster. So your claims of town level Gremmy and Kenpachi on the other thread are contradicted right there.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Why do you believe it should be comparable in size?

@BS:
Ah so it makes sense that Bawa could travel for 3 hours and get there when Ichigo was apparently running for nearly a day making no progress? Just how fast do you think Bawa is? If the superhuman Ichigo only runs at 10m/s and was on the treadmill for 10 hours for the day. That's 360km traveling while making no progress. That must mean that Bawa had to travel far more than that to reach it. So yes. Either Bawa moves as fast as Ichigo, as our only evidence suggests, and took days to reach, or Bawa is dozens of times faster than Ichigo. Which is unsupported. Basically, you have no way to use this for scale.

More like hill.

Oh no, not fools at all. Just a foolish child. Let us no forget we have a reliable character stating that it takes a 10 day walk to get the next Seireitei gate. Know what that means? Let's take a 1.4m/s average walking speed and assuming they sleep for 8 hours, even though being in a rush would change that drastically. That's 160 hours which would make the distance to the next gate 806.4km away. That's also a quarter of the circumference. That'd mean the diameter of Seireitei would be just over a thousand km :l That would make it larger than Madagascar and many European countries. We know the size of Seireitei from all given facts, one of them by merely from having eyes, to know that statement is complete bs. Use that to compare to your 3 day statement.

Now let's stack up the evidence. We have a majorly inconsistent running scene which makes either Bawabawa massively faster than Ichigo, massively, or they were traveling for days on end, assuming no sleep.
-Anyone can see the bs from these obviously inconsistencies.

And Nel's statement directly in line with Yoruichi's days one, the latter already proven to be absolutely wrong.
-A clear call into question to any of these days/distance lines.

So there we go. Two pieces of evidence that have been defeated by the manga itself.

Ummmm you guys know that the Soul Society and Huecho Mundo houses an equal number of souls as the modern Earth as the premise of the entire series. Why would the Seireti or Los Noches not be humongous? This arguement is just plain stupid. The places are huge. It takes a quarter of the arcannar arc to just REACH Los Noches. The worm travels without them having to walk for a clearly undefined amount of time and their battle with the sand guy makes them have to hoof it underground and finally reach a tower that leads to huecho Mundo from the underground. Why is it so hard to admit that the places would be very large. There are countless skyscrapper like towers reaching into the atmosphere that is so high that the sky is actually a structure which they did not even know about until near the end of the arc. Why would the place NOT be extraordinarily large?

The perspective of art versus size is totally unreliable. Perspective is always skewed by distance in a 2-dimensional plane and the artists tools to be detailed. Perspective is an actual topic if you read or watch the series when they are travelling to Los Noches. They complain about the distance never changing after traveling for hours-days both on foot and by Bawa. Its so long that they lose track of time itself which is a topic mentioned in both sources.

Just stop with the squalling about the size of the clearly defined very very large cities and get a real argument.

Look at Seireitei. A hundred years would send 5 trillion souls there. Even excluding those that die there or get resurrected it would still need to contain welll over a hundred times what all of Earth has. Does it look like it's that large? Hell, does it even look like it can contain the population of Earth?

Anyhow Seireitei is only the capital of Soul Society. There's still the massive Rukongai district outside of the gates. There's likely more around that.

And that sky is meaningless as there was a large chunk in it showing its not the same as a real sky. Being large isn't what gives a blue sky.

The time/distance is contradicted by the manga.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Look at Seireitei. A hundred years would send 5 trillion souls there. Even excluding those that die there or get resurrected it would still need to contain welll over a hundred times what all of Earth has. Does it look like it's that large? Hell, does it even look like it can contain the population of Earth?

Anyhow Seireitei is only the capital of Soul Society. There's still the massive Rukongai district outside of the gates. There's likely more around that.

And that sky is meaningless as there was a large chunk in it showing its not the same as a real sky. Being large isn't what gives a blue sky.

The time/distance is contradicted by the manga.

/wrists People who die in the SS are reborn through reincarnation in the world of the living (Earth world). Or if they are evil go to Huecho Mundo. There are 320 districts in just the Rukongai which is the outlying district where it is not protected by the law very well. Remember the souls in the SS do not need to eat so there are no farm lands unless they are soul reapers who do eat.

"The Human World and Soul Society are parallel to each other and are two sides of the same coin. Families separated by death are rarely reunited in the Soul Society unless they arrive in Soul Society together. People live nestled together like a family of strangers.[4] One never gets hungry (if she or he doesn't have spiritual powers) and aging is slowed to a great extent, with lifespans of 2000 or more years not being unheard of, though such ages are limited to Shinigami or other Soul Society dwellers with high spiritual power. Children can be born as they are in the Human World. People can also be killed as regular Humans are, though they are capable of surviving wounds that would normally be considered fatal. A soul that dies in Soul Society is reincarnated on Earth as a new Human with no past memories."

http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_Society

The ceiling reaches so high into the sky it appears as a sky. When they smash through the ceiling of Los Noches to fight Ulqiuarra they see the true sky for the first time. It just shows how MASSIVE los noches is.

Arguing a difference between the manga and the anime is like extraordinarily common. Just take it for granted that the city is extremely huge.

Cool, that still leaves more people than Earth. If 5 trillion souls died in 100 years, how many would have been reincarnated given souls can live for over a thousand years and the risk of starvation is gone? No matter how you look at it, there is no way that Seireitei, or even the outer district could house that amount. Leading to the idea that theres more in soul society.

But the walled capital itself is not that large.

The sky is only blue because of the sunlight. There is none inside, so no matter how high it is a blue sky wouldn't form.

What are you talking about? I'm comparing the manga quotes to the manga itself which contradict both the tri running towards it and the 3 days comment.

Pro-tip BR: Focus on the damage done to the top of the dome.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Cool, that still leaves more people than Earth. If 5 trillion souls died in 100 years, how many would have been reincarnated given souls can live for over a thousand years and the risk of starvation is gone? No matter how you look at it, there is no way that Seireitei, or even the outer district could house that amount. Leading to the idea that theres more in soul society.

But the walled capital itself is not that large.

The sky is only blue because of the sunlight. There is none inside, so no matter how high it is a blue sky wouldn't form.

What are you talking about? I'm comparing the manga quotes to the manga itself which contradict both the tri running towards it and the 3 days comment.

Why would 5 trillion people die in 100 year span? That is an absurd number considering the average nominal population doubling rate occurs every 20 years and there are 6.5 billion on the planet. If a massive number of humans died that is a problem that is talked about actually in the series. The quincy were wiping out hollows from existence which threatened to destroy the balance and the world which is an ongoing conflict addressed. When a hollow dies it is reborn in the real world or sent to hell if they are super evil so the supply of human souls is at balance, when the quincy kill hollows they are removed from the cycle and provide no reincarnated living human souls. If a bunch of living people died then SS and Huecho Mundo would be overflowed with dead and that would mess up the balance.

By only your notations of size versus drawings. The only reason you doubt its size is from your own interpretations of size of a far away picture in 2 dimensions. Los Noches is only a fortress within Huecho Mundo and does not house every soul; just a crap ton of them on the surface and underground in caverns. The Soul Society is the world where the living souls end up, we don't know how large the whole place they exist is. Apparently it goes up very high to because there is a soul palace. All we know is about the Sieretei which houses the military of the SS that governs the overall center of the civilized portion of the SS and it seems to be the center of the country size city that we cannot see the edge of from many of the pictures.

You obviously did not see or read the part where they break through the ceiling and are above Los Noches 😬

Start it at 27 Min 53 seconds if it doesn't
euqpuA9ojr8?t=27m53s