Planet Busting vs.. Combat Related Feats

Originally posted by carver9
Colossus was holding back and admitted he didn't want to kill Spiderman. The stuff you are naming have circumstances.

Even holding back, this is a guy who has 1/5th of the power of the Phoenix. And Cytorrak. Was Magik holding back? Etc etc. Like I said, he was beaten, but not smeared into a bloody paste. Had it been a forum fight, in character (so Colossus would still hold back) Spidey would be killed by Magik.

PIS saved him from Magik, and CIS saved him from Piotr.

To Pillow Biter:
Fair enough, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that then. There are far too many examples to use that will disappear from battle boards if we tried that, though (T-Vo being one example. WBH would be another. Hawkman's Claw of Horus, Flash's IMP, Reed's Celestial killing gun etc).

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
True....but the Firelord example is different, as he's not just a brick. He has his own superspeed as well, right? Plus, durability showings far far above being punched by the proportional strength of a spider.

What showings of durability are you talking about that would allow him to tank an ongoing assault at super speed from a character who's strength fluctuates during stressful moments? Are you talking about space cheese fts?

Exactomundo. I am of the camp that both space cheese and combat feats should be taken into account.

You have to ask yourself what it is exactly that you are trying to argue on a battle board.

I'm typically trying to argue for how a fight would likely go down if written by the average writer tomorrow. Or sometimes by an average writer during a certain period in history.

If you start trying to make comics and power sets logical and consistent, and take all the PIS out of them, your results will soon bear little resemblance to what actually usually happens in comics.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even holding back, this is a guy who has 1/5th of the power of the Phoenix. And Cytorrak. Was Magik holding back? Etc etc. Like I said, he was beaten, but not smeared into a bloody paste. Had it been a forum fight, in character (so Colossus would still hold back) Spidey would be killed by Magik.

PIS saved him from Magik, and CIS saved him from Piotr.

To Pillow Biter:
Fair enough, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that then. There are far too many examples to use that will disappear from battle boards if we tried that, though (T-Vo being one example. WBH would be another. Hawkman's Claw of Horus, Flash's IMP, Reed's Celestial killing gun etc).

That's where strength control come into place. Even though Pete was crazy at times, even during his Cyttorak and Phoenix moment, he still had control. And again, it was stated he was holding back. Also, I think you are underestimating Spiderman durability just a bit.

I dont know about Magic, can't tell if she was holding back or not but neither of us can so us talking about her is irrelevant.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Exactomundo. I am of the camp that both space cheese and combat feats should be taken into account.

So you agree that Thor shouldn't be able to hurt Terrax since a weakened Terrax survived in a black hole with no issues for months? You know it doesn't work like that.

Originally posted by carver9
So you agree that Thor shouldn't be able to hurt Terrax since a weakened Terrax survived in a black hole with no issues for months? You know it doesn't work like that.

Firelord also took a punch from an enraged Thor, if you merely want to focus on combat feats...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Firelord also took a punch from an enraged Thor, if you merely want to focus on combat feats...

I don't understand what you are trying to say but what I'm saying is, Spiderman has enough fts to justify him being able to pull off the firelord ft and the way it happened doesn't mean it's PIS. There are better showings than this that you ca use. Batman would be a good example of walking PIS.

Lets not forget that during the time Spiderman pounded on Firelord, he was exhausted.

Originally posted by carver9
Lets not forget that during the time Spiderman pounded on Firelord, he was exhausted.

EDIT :
What I do find stupid is the fact that he was able to hurt Firelord and Masterson Thor at all. Considering he damaged his hands trying to punch Loki and Loki wasn't even fazed by the attack.

Classic Drax is a great example of planet busting/combat feats.

He couldn't harm Thanos at all yet has busted 2 planets(1shared) a ripped a star in half .

Originally posted by zopzop
I don't know about exhausted, but he for sure was holding back. He admitted he could vaporize Spider-Man and the entire city with one nova blast but he said there would be no honor in that.

EDIT :
What I do find stupid is the fact that he was able to hurt Firelord and Masterson Thor at all. Considering he damaged his hands trying to punch Loki and Loki wasn't even fazed by the attack.

He was holding back. I also think it was stated that he wasn't 100% during the end of the battle but I could be wrong.

Yeah, Spiderman has some up and down showings when it comes to his strength. That's why I am looking at everything as a whole.

Originally posted by zopzop
I don't know about exhausted, but he for sure was holding back. He admitted he could vaporize Spider-Man and the entire city with one nova blast but he said there would be no honor in that.

EDIT :
What I do find stupid is the fact that he was able to hurt Firelord and Masterson Thor at all. Considering he damaged his hands trying to punch Loki and Loki wasn't even fazed by the attack.

He hurt his hands against Tombstone as well.

Essentially, Spiderman hung with Firelord and Colossus etc because they were holding back. Because the plot called for it.

Would you give Spidey dynamic strength, carver?

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Classic Drax is a great example of planet busting/combat feats.

He couldn't harm Thanos at all yet has busted 2 planets(1shared) a ripped a star in half .

And an enraged Drax was unable to KO Firelord. He got pretty damn close though. But couldn't seal the deal.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He hurt his hands against Tombstone as well.

Essentially, Spiderman hung with Firelord and Colossus etc because they were holding back. Because the plot called for it.

Would you give Spidey dynamic strength, carver?

Yeah, his strength showings are up and down.

Yeah, they did hold back...I never argued against that. I just said using that showing isn't a good example.

No...I think he is like every other character. During stressful moments, they can do the unknown. Spiderman, Thor, and Superman are known for this. When they are stressed, they can do the impossible. Spiderman has supported 10 to 20 floor buildings before, thrown tanks, tossed trains with his finger tip, and damaged/dropped Heralds. People can clearly make arguments that he is outside of the 20 ton class (the fts are there).

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I often-times read post that proclaim character "A" should be able to stomp character "B" simply because "A" has destoyed a planet and "B" has not (even though they are within the same tier/peer group). This line of reasoning imo needs to be verified.

Which is more valid? Planet destroying (Planetoids, moons, giant asteroids, etc) or actual combat feats?

planet busting is a RIDICULOUS way to decide who wins. it COMPLETELY and utterly goes against forum rules regarding IN CHARACTER. it is truly meaningless. if it's a 'good guy' they will very likely NEVER destroy a planet as it is ooc. that by NO MEANS means they can NOT do so. i've rarely seen it happen around here, thank goodness, but anyone who says someone who broke a planet wins because they broke a planet and their opponent hasn't, but said opponent has fought and won against others in that tier is....an idiot. i recommend placing them on ignore. we use characters, NOT power sets in this forum. it's embarrassing how many people forget that little fact on a daily basis.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't understand what you are trying to say but what I'm saying is, Spiderman has enough fts to justify him being able to pull off the firelord ft and the way it happened doesn't mean it's PIS.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
jawdrop

You've encouraged him.

I hold you directly responsible.

Originally posted by h1a8
Most combat feats are PIS. There is no gold standard for the most part. Thing has went toe to toe with Namor as almost peers but Namor has went toe to toe with Hulk, Thor, etc.

Characters power levels fluctuate in comics depending on the story and plot. Hulk matching Gladiator doesn't mean he has the strength to push or destroy a planet. This is because Gladiator didn't have planet pushing or destroying power when he fought Hulk. The same goes with other characters. Characters who can move and react at speeds greater than light have problems with beings who are not even bullet fast. And that is very consistent thing in comics, a gold standard.

So for the most part, the power levels in a forum fight can be different than the ones in a particular comic. This is because we don't allow PIS.

I disagree. The statement that "most" combat Feats are PIS is pretty far off base.

Some are. Not all. Certainly not most. That is a self defeating concept. Give it some thought.

And non-combat Feats can be just as varied. Some (again, not all) Splash Page non-combat Feats are likewise PIS.

The water flows both ways on this one.

The kicker is to use good judgment and look for "repetition" of said Feats.

Repetition. THAT is the Gold Standard. 😎

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Both are valid with enough logic and common sense.

This sums things up nicely.