Planet Busting vs.. Combat Related Feats

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Wow. Respectfully, a lot of you don't seem to 'get' comics.

You can't try to filter the PIS out of comics. Comics ARE PIS. The relative rankings of characters are much more important and ingrained in comic 'reality' than what characters 'should' be capable of based on their powers and feats.

Remember, without PIS, most of the physically-based characters would be very low on the food chain. But comics has always been about extolling physical characters whose powers resemble augmented human abilities.

Essentially, feats are virtually 100% irrelevant with respect to their objective or empirically measured magnitude. Writers don't really care much about the implications of their space cheese and other big feats. The only time a feat tells you much is when one character is able to do something that another character cannot. And only then when it is happening under the same writer in the same arc.

Relative showings, combat results, comparative comments, etc. tell you where characters stand. Feats don't matter.

Actually, many of us 'get' far more than you may realize.
Comic book debate is a game. We are aware of this. We make up rules for it. House rules, if you will. And we play.

These "rules" include coming up with a way to turn a chaotic medium into an acceptable (enough) weighing mechanism for our game to work.
Threads like this help us to define our Rules.
Terms like PIS, CIS... even the term "Feat" (in the context we use it), are truly more of a "Rule Book" for our verbal competitions, than an actual critique of comic book literature as a quantifiable science.

Granted- there are threads designed to tackle the actual "value" (or lack there of) of comic book showings.
But you are far more likely to find those in "General Discussion" Threads, rather than Vs. Forum threads.

Though, as always, exceptions do apply.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Hmmm....I really dont see the relevance. Ive seen characters who can punch a planetyo death get beaten consistently by inferior opponents who can't/couldn't replicate the feat.

They can't replicate the feat because they're not strong/durable/whatever enough to, or because they're not a character that really has much if any "hard" feats?

Outside of fights(and sometimes narration), what have Kurse or Mangog ever done to be stronger than Thor?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I often-times read post that proclaim character "A" should be able to stomp character "B" simply because "A" has destoyed a planet and "B" has not (even though they are within the same tier/peer group). This line of reasoning imo needs to be verified.

Which is more valid? Planet destroying (Planetoids, moons, giant asteroids, etc) or actual combat feats?

In any event, planet-busting vs. combat feats doesn't strike me as meaningful distinction. The reason being... almost all planet-busting occurs during combat. Surfer busted planets when fighting Korvac, Morg and Ravenous. Hulk busted a planet when fighting Red She-Hulk. Thor busted a planet when fighting Gorr. Beta Ray Bill busted a planet when fighting Stardust. Thanos and Drax busted a planet when fighting. Etc.

The presence of collateral damage is meaningful. Its absence isn't.

truuuu

Originally posted by ODG
Your question doesn't seem to have anything to do with your initial trepidation over the comparison between character's careers (or lack thereof) of planet-busting.

In any event, planet-busting vs. combat feats doesn't strike me as meaningful distinction. The reason being... almost all planet-busting occurs during combat. Surfer busted planets when fighting Korvac, Morg and Ravenous. Hulk busted a planet when fighting Red She-Hulk. Thor busted a planet when fighting Gorr. Beta Ray Bill busted a planet when fighting Stardust. Thanos and Drax busted a planet when fighting. Etc.

The presence of collateral damage is meaningful. Its absence isn't.

Those weren't the issues I was referring to....

Untruuuu

Originally posted by leonidas
planet busting is a RIDICULOUS way to decide who wins. it COMPLETELY and utterly goes against forum rules regarding IN CHARACTER. it is truly meaningless. if it's a 'good guy' they will very likely NEVER destroy a planet as it is ooc. that by NO MEANS means they can NOT do so. i've rarely seen it happen around here, thank goodness, but anyone who says someone who broke a planet wins because they broke a planet and their opponent hasn't, but said opponent has fought and won against others in that tier is....an idiot. i recommend placing them on ignore. we use characters, NOT power sets in this forum. it's embarrassing how many people forget that little fact on a daily basis.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Untruuuu

😂

Originally posted by jaxthejester
I disagree. The statement that "most" combat Feats are PIS is pretty far off base.

Some are. Not all. Certainly not most. That is a self defeating concept. Give it some thought.

And non-combat Feats can be just as varied. Some (again, not all) Splash Page non-combat Feats are likewise PIS.

The water flows both ways on this one.

The kicker is to use good judgment and look for "repetition" of said Feats.

Repetition. THAT is the Gold Standard. 😎

I agree with you. I just see a lot of inconsistent combat showings though. There are some repetitive combat feats that still contradict other repetitive combat feats. For example, Thing has been written mostly as a peer to Namor in all of their battles. Yet Namor hangs well with Hercules, Hulk, etc. Thing doesn't do so well against them.

My main point was not really power levels but rather becoming dumb when fighting certain characters. Most speedsters become dumb as hell when fighting someone popular. Look at Glads and Surfer's career. WTF

Originally posted by JBL
What does good guys not going around destroying planets have to do with this thread???? People can and HAVE used strength, striking power and speed feats to judge a battle. If someone can hit hard enough to destroy a planet or bench the earths weight, they sure as hell can be used by the characters respective fans to gauge a battle. What do you think speed, strength, weapons and the such fall under??? POWERSET.... Every time a battle takes place, POWERSETS gets used ( how can you fight without using your powerset ). THATS WHAT AT YOUR BEST MEANS.... YOU WILL USE EVERYTHING AT YOUR DISPOSAL TO WIN AND YOUR HIGHEST SHOWINGS COME INTO PLAY. And as for your ( idiot comment ) Reported.

There are characters with powers, not walking powersets that you get to use as if you were in their shoes.

Please use the distinction correctly and abide by the rules.

Originally posted by -Pr-
There are characters with powers, not walking powersets that you get to use as if you were in their shoes.

Please use the distinction correctly and abide by the rules.

only if the combat feat is above planetery busting.

Originally posted by jaxthejester
Actually, many of us 'get' far more than you may realize.
Comic book debate is a game. We are aware of this. We make up rules for it. House rules, if you will. And we play.

These "rules" include coming up with a way to turn a chaotic medium into an acceptable (enough) weighing mechanism for our game to work.
Threads like this help us to define our Rules.
Terms like PIS, CIS... even the term "Feat" (in the context we use it), are truly more of a "Rule Book" for our verbal competitions, than an actual critique of comic book literature as a quantifiable science.

Granted- there are threads designed to tackle the actual "value" (or lack there of) of comic book showings.
But you are far more likely to find those in "General Discussion" Threads, rather than Vs. Forum threads.

Though, as always, exceptions do apply.

That is a legitimate way to go about things, if that is what one is interested in. But in that case I think one should take this line of logic to its natural end. When you do that, you end up with entrenched rules similar to those on CBR Rumbles. People often make fun of CBR debates for bearing little relationship to the actual comics, but I respect them for doing exactly what it is you are suggesting.

But right now I find this board to be a bit confused, and muddling around in the middle between having a rule book to enable a more objectively debatable "comic book debating GAME" (CBR) and a board that is more interested in discussing how fights actually happen in comics (Herochat, Alvaro).

Originally posted by JBL
Their powers are their powerset. Anytime a character uses his/her powers we see what they are capable of. If superman never uses his powerset in battle, then we would not know about freeze breath, heat vision, super strength or super speed. All of that is used in combat and ALL feats consists of a certain ability or abilities ( powerset ) used.

That's not what I'm talking about.

Powers and how they are used still depends on the character of the person using it. Just because a character can do something, doesn't mean they necessarily will.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
That is a legitimate way to go about things, if that is what one is interested in. But in that case I think one should take this line of logic to its natural end. When you do that, you end up with entrenched rules similar to those on CBR Rumbles. People often make fun of CBR debates for bearing little relationship to the actual comics, but I respect them for doing exactly what it is you are suggesting.

But right now I find this board to be a bit confused, and muddling around in the middle between having a rule book to enable a more objectively debatable "comic book debating GAME" (CBR) and a board that is more interested in discussing how fights actually happen in comics (Herochat, Alvaro).

It's not so much confusion as it is an attempt to be fair and realistic.

Combat feats>>>>>space cheese.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Combat feats>>>>>space cheese.

Originally posted by JBL
What does good guys not going around destroying planets have to do with this thread???? People can and HAVE used strength, striking power and speed feats to judge a battle. If someone can hit hard enough to destroy a planet or bench the earths weight, they sure as hell can be used by the characters respective fans to gauge a battle. What do you think speed, strength, weapons and the such fall under??? POWERSET.... Every time a battle takes place, POWERSETS gets used ( how can you fight without using your powerset ). THATS WHAT AT YOUR BEST MEANS.... YOU WILL USE EVERYTHING AT YOUR DISPOSAL TO WIN AND YOUR HIGHEST SHOWINGS COME INTO PLAY. And as for your ( idiot comment ) Reported.

Superman/Marvel/Ultraman lifted a book with infinite pages sneer

Originally posted by -Pr-

It's not so much confusion as it is an attempt to be fair and realistic. [/B]

I don't really follow the logic here. It isn't about fair, it is about deciding what kind of debate we want to have: how fights SHOULD go or how they typically happen. Not sure there is really a middle ground.

Originally posted by JBL
What does good guys not going around destroying planets have to do with this thread???? People can and HAVE used strength, striking power and speed feats to judge a battle. If someone can hit hard enough to destroy a planet or bench the earths weight, they sure as hell can be used by the characters respective fans to gauge a battle. What do you think speed, strength, weapons and the such fall under??? POWERSET.... Every time a battle takes place, POWERSETS gets used ( how can you fight without using your powerset ). THATS WHAT AT YOUR BEST MEANS.... YOU WILL USE EVERYTHING AT YOUR DISPOSAL TO WIN AND YOUR HIGHEST SHOWINGS COME INTO PLAY. And as for your ( idiot comment ) Reported.

😆

who the hell are you again.....? i mean besides someone who is obviously defensive as sh!t. if this comment reflected on you personally, that's kind of funny. the 'someone' in my post was a generic Someone, not anyone in particular. but hey, if it hit the mark with you because this is how you debate, yay me. 👆

showing someone at their highest is ALSO not the way we debate around here (no offense but you seem rather clueless on how this forum works). THAT is called.......HIGHBALLING. so, powersets and highballing are BAD. if that's the way you think things should work, well, luckily there are other forums on the interwebs. go pander your idiocy there.

using planet busting feats is teh stupid, and very rarely indicates anything of worth. it's an unfair comparison because not all characters have or would break a planet based on CHARACTER (the rule has been explained, ignore or challenge it again and YOU'LL be reported....) if you don't like it, or can't get your head around the concept, then.....gtfo of the kmc. whoever you are. 🙂

This sequence puts the question to rest IMO. Drax destroys two planets back to back and rips a star apart. Yet Captain Mar-Vell who isn't even class 100 takes his attacks to the chin and doesn't even budges after he knocked Drax out.

Also he took two of drax's punches to the chin and didn't even move

Drax owned planets and stars though

mmm

Mar-Vell is skyfather level.