Superman vs. Ghost Rider

Originally posted by Epicurus
By stare-freezing him like he did to one of Carrigan's henchmen in his first encounter with those thugs. He didn't physically hold onto that man, but the guy still froze in his place nonetheless. To the point that Carrigan even told his guys, "don't look it in the eyes".

It's during his second encounter with the rearmed Carrigan group. After he's hit with one of the anti-tank missiles, he's revolving midair and seems to be frozen in time when suddenly mid-time freeze he cocks his head sideways. Then a frame later we see him literally blitzing upon one Carrigan's foot soldiers.

I have proven it a bazillion times already by citing Blaze's commentary in the second movie, showing examples from the first and second both, and also pointing out the Nadia example of the Rider affecting a reformed person that still carries residual guilt in their heart(s). If I posted screencaps, you would just accuse me of editing the subtitles. I can't post movie clips, since my youtube account's been DMCA'd. I don't believe that the Rider would have been pulverized, but that's neither here nor there.

By the time Ghost Rider turns his gaze on Superman he'll be eating super speed punches.

And you think that one single feat is enough to compete with Superman? Hell no.

I wouldn't accuse you of anything. But this interpretation of the PS just makes no sense. In the comics the stare forces a person to relive all the evil and suffering they have caused. Superman hasn't done anything evil. Everything he did was to save lives, he didn't kill Zod because he wanted to, he killed him to protect people. Based on your interpretation if Superman was actually evil, and killed Zod for fun, and didn't feel any guilt he wouldn't be affected by the stare. And that is absurd. Clearly the PS works on guilt for the evil you have caused, and Clark hasn't done anything evil.

Originally posted by Robtard
What evil(s) has Superman done that would allow GR to penance him?

Epicurus thinks the PS would fry you into oblivion even you only feel a bit shitty about that time you took 10 buck out of your dad's wallet when you were 13 years old.

Well that's just odd.

Originally posted by Psychotron
By the time Ghost Rider turns his gaze on Superman he'll be eating super speed punches.

And you think that one single feat is enough to compete with Superman? Hell no.

I wouldn't accuse you of anything. But this interpretation of the PS just makes no sense. In the comics the stare forces a person to relive all the evil and suffering they have caused. Superman hasn't done anything evil. Everything he did was to save lives, he didn't kill Zod because he wanted to, he killed him to protect people. Based on your interpretation if Superman was actually evil, and killed Zod for fun, and didn't feel any guilt he wouldn't be affected by the stare. And that is absurd. Clearly the PS works on guilt for the evil you have caused, and Clark hasn't done anything evil.

Epicurus thinks the PS would fry you into oblivion even you only feel a bit shitty about that time you took 10 buck out of your dad's wallet when you were 13 years old.

I believe it's enough for him to survive getting blitzed by Superman.

Take it up with the producers of the movie then. I already provided my bit of proof by paraphrasing Blaze's narrative from the second movie. If you still want to disagree, then that's on you. You shouldn't bring up comic GR, since comic GR has far greater feats to his name, and could damn well prove to be a challenge for even current comic Superman, let alone the latest movie version.

Again, it's practically mentioned in the movies.

Originally posted by Robtard
Well that's just odd.

"See, there's good and bad in all of us. And maybe you're not a murderer, but you did something you wouldn't want the Rider to see. A white lie, an illegal download."

The PS still needs "eye contact" to work and how's Blaze going to do that if Supes blitz him?

I'm going to force myself to re-watch Ghost Rider 2 just to see if that's how the PS worked.

I re-watched it and there where multiple instances in the film when GR looks at people without sucking their souls out. He also got KOed and sent to the hospital by a grenade.

Superman pops his head like a zit.

Originally posted by Psychotron
I re-watched it and there where multiple instances in the film when GR looks at people without sucking their souls out. He also got KOed and sent to the hospital by a grenade.

Superman pops his head like a zit.

Lol, pretty much everyone whom he looked in the eyes got frozen to the spot, to the point that the next moment he touched them they got burnt to a crisp.

Anyways, did you hear Blaze's narrative regarding how the Rider's power works in the beginning of the movie?

Originally posted by Epicurus
Blaze was sent to the hospital. The Rider also tanked anti-tank missiles.

Lol, pretty much everyone whom he looked in the eyes got frozen to the spot, to the point that the next moment he touched them they got burnt to a crisp.

Anyways, did you hear Blaze's narrative regarding how the Rider's power works in the beginning of the movie?

Blaze was the Ghost Rider when he was hit by the grenade. I know he survived those anti-tank missiles so his durability is inconsistent.

No, there were two instances of Carrigan looking at him without being frozen, another when a thug unloaded an uzi right in his face, and another with Roarke. Clearly the Penance stare doesn't work just by looking at someone.

I did. Did you hear that part about the Ghost Rider only praying on the wicked? Nadia wasn't innocent, and it makes perfect sense for GR to try to kill a woman who ran with a guy like Carrigan and mothered the Devil's son. Not to mention she still makes her living through theft. Superman may have caused destruction, but he did so to save lives, so he isn't evil.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Blaze was the Ghost Rider when he was hit by the grenade. I know he survived those anti-tank missiles so his durability is inconsistent.

No, there were two instances of Carrigan looking at him without being frozen, another when a thug unloaded an uzi right in his face, and another with Roarke. Clearly the Penance stare doesn't work just by looking at someone.

I did. Did you hear that part about the Ghost Rider only praying on the wicked? Nadia wasn't innocent, and it makes perfect sense for GR to try to kill a woman who ran with a guy like Carrigan and mothered the Devil's son. Not to mention she still makes her living through theft. Superman may have caused destruction, but he did so to save lives, so he isn't evil.

I know the instance where he mocks Carrigan by saying "Sorry, does that hurt", and Carrigan indeed couldn't move his hands or feet. The only reason he survived is when the Rider threw him away upon realizing that Nadia had taken off with Danny. Which other instance are you talking about? Carrigan also warned his men not to look the Rider in the eyes during their first encounter with him.

I did. Lol, you do realize that going by Blaze's commentary, if you pull off the slightest bit of crap you are seen as wicked in the eyes of the Rider? There is a reason why Blaze went from wanting to use the Rider's power at the end of the first film to keeping it suppressed and wanting it removed in the second. Superman clearly feels residual guilt from the deaths of Zod and Pa Kent. Which means that Superman is vulnerable to the Stare.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Nope, I mean to say that stuff which normally doesn't hurt the Rider seems to affect Blaze after he's turned back to human. Not to mention that Blaze upon transitioning back to human often times isn't even in his right mind and goes unconscious due to the stress of the transformation as we saw in Movie 1 where he's rescued by the previous Ghost Rider.

I know the instance where he mocks Carrigan by saying "Sorry, does that hurt", and Carrigan indeed couldn't move his hands or feet. The only reason he survived is when the Rider threw him away upon realizing that Nadia had taken off with Danny. Which other instance are you talking about? Carrigan also warned his men not to look the Rider in the eyes during their first encounter with him.

I did. Lol, you do realize that going by Blaze's commentary, if you pull off the slightest bit of crap you are seen as wicked in the eyes of the Rider? There is a reason why Blaze went from wanting to use the Rider's power at the end of the first film to keeping it suppressed and wanting it removed in the second. Superman clearly feels residual guilt from the deaths of Zod and Pa Kent. Which means that Superman is vulnerable to the Stare.

That doesn't change the fact that he was KOed by a grenade.

No there's a part where GR is on top of Carrigan right before he launches the missile, and the other is when he's become a demon when they're fighting on the hood of the SUV right before he says "I was never afraid of you" and the Rider finally uses the stare on him. So clearly it take more than eye contact.

Going by Blaze's commentary you have to have actually done something wrong for your own benefit. Not just to feel guilty about something. Downloading a movie or telling white lies are bad things you do for your own gain, however small it may be. Superman didn't do anything like that. He fought his hardest to protect the Earth, and maybe some people died but that's not Superman's fault.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Blaze's narrative from the 2nd movie:

"See, there's good and bad in all of us. And maybe you're not a murderer, but you did something you wouldn't want the Rider to see. A white lie, an illegal download."

Stands to reason that's in regards to the spirit of vengeance being able to judge anyone.

Now do you really think GR will burn someone's soul cos of a minor infraction? Considering the people we do see him PS to death are hardcore criminals.

If so, the film would have been spent with the Ghost Rider stopping to stare at everyone to death for stealing candy as a kid, lying to your teacher, jaywalking etc

GR can't even catch up with supes. supes could just speed blitz him to death.

Originally posted by Robtard
Stands to reason that's in regards to the spirit of vengeance being able to judge anyone.

Now do you really think GR will burn someone's soul cos of a minor infraction? Considering the people we do see him PS to death are hardcore criminals.

If so, the film would have been spent with the Ghost Rider stopping to stare at everyone to death for stealing candy as a kid, lying to your teacher, jaywalking etc

He didn't because Blaze was spending most of his time largely repressing the Rider's essence instead of letting it out. Do you remember how enthusiastic he was about using its power to fight evil in the ending of the previous movie? And in the second one, we seen him moving outside of America altogether, living isolated, and keeping the power under his control, and wanting to get rid of it altogether? The few times we see him unleash the Rider's power, it is largely directed at something involving Danny, which is why the Rider doesn't stop along the highway to deep-fry random wrong-doers.

It stands to reason at least one point or another, the Rider went too far, which is where Blaze realized that it wasn't a comic book superhero but a demon that could hurt people if not kept in check.

Originally posted by Psychotron
That doesn't change the fact that he was KOed by a grenade.

No there's a part where GR is on top of Carrigan right before he launches the missile, and the other is when he's become a demon when they're fighting on the hood of the SUV right before he says "I was never afraid of you" and the Rider finally uses the stare on him. So clearly it take more than eye contact.

Going by Blaze's commentary you have to have actually done something wrong for your own benefit. Not just to feel guilty about something. Downloading a movie or telling white lies are bad things you do for your own gain, however small it may be. Superman didn't do anything like that. He fought his hardest to protect the Earth, and maybe some people died but that's not Superman's fault.

The first one I'll have to rewatch. The second part is inadmissible, since Carrigan got an upgrade via Rourke. We've already seen the Rider only use Hellfire on demons, as shown in the previous movie and with Rourke himself. Not the stare, hellfire.

Superman not saving Pa Kent or having been forced to kill Zod counts as bad in the Rider's eyes, since Superman can't forgive himself for such small transgressions.

Originally posted by Epicurus
It was never shown that he was KO'd on-screen.

The first one I'll have to rewatch. The second part is inadmissible, since Carrigan got an upgrade via Rourke. We've already seen the Rider only use Hellfire on demons, as shown in the previous movie and with Rourke himself. Not the stare, hellfire.

Superman not saving Pa Kent or having been forced to kill Zod counts as bad in the Rider's eyes, since Superman can't forgive himself for such small transgressions.

Oh come on. He was hit by the grenade and woke up in a hospital. What did you think happened? Ghost Ride didn't feel like chasing the bad guys and decided to call it a night?

That's not true. He did kill Carrigan via the Penance stare but it obviously takes more than direct eye contact.

It doesn't matter what Superman can or cannot forgive himself for. The fact is that neither of those actions were evil. I can't forgive myself for that one time I missed out on banging the hottest chick in my high-school but that doesn't mean GR is going to barbeque my ass for it.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Oh come on. He was hit by the grenade and woke up in a hospital. What did you think happened? Ghost Ride didn't feel like chasing the bad guys and decided to call it a night?

That's not true. He did kill Carrigan via the Penance stare but it obviously takes more than direct eye contact.

It doesn't matter what Superman can or cannot forgive himself for. The fact is that neither of those actions were evil. I can't forgive myself for that one time I missed out on banging the hottest chick in my high-school but that doesn't mean GR is going to barbeque my ass for it.

No, he burnt his face using hellfire. Not the Stare. Reason being we saw a significant portion of Carrigan's face burnt off:

And what happens to victims of the PS(irrespective of whether they're humans or soul-possessing demons like amped Blackheart):

So you see, that was just hellfire. Not the Penance Stare.

It doesn't matter whether they were evil. If you feel bad enough about it, then you're fair game in the Rider's eyes. Why else do you think that Blaze went from wanting to use the Rider's power for good to wanting to get rid of it altogether? The Rider has an insatiable hunger for punishing the guilty, as Moreau explained regarding the manner in which Zarathos was corrupted by the Devil.

Originally posted by Epicurus
He was also stabbed by a knife in the previous movie, and later woke up in a church afterwards. You can't claim that he KO'd since we weren't actually shown him getting KO'd onscreen.

No, he burnt his face using hellfire. Not the Stare. Reason being we saw a significant portion of Carrigan's face burnt off:

And what happens to victims of the PS(irrespective of whether they're humans or soul-possessing demons like amped Blackheart):

So you see, that was just hellfire. Not the Penance Stare.

It doesn't matter whether they were evil. If you feel bad enough about it, then you're fair game in the Rider's eyes. Why else do you think that Blaze went from wanting to use the Rider's power for good to wanting to get rid of it altogether? The Rider has an insatiable hunger for punishing the guilty, as Moreau explained regarding the manner in which Zarathos was corrupted by the Devil.

Now you're just being pathetic. Are you really trying to argue that Ghost Rider wasn't KOed by the grenade even though we see him wake up in a hospital in the next shot?

No, it was the stare. We see the Rider grab his head, look at him, and kill him while the Penance stare sound effects are going on. His face ended up looking like that after he was already dead, and the Rider tossed him on the road. It was due to decay, it wasn't burned. We see a lingering show where his face is normal, and then decays to what you posted. Makes sense since his powers were all about decay. The eyes of the victims of the PS don't light up in the second movie as it doesn't burn their souls but instead the Rider consumes them.

I don't think you understand what the word guilty means. It has nothing to do with whether you feel bad about something or not. You must commit some kind of crime or evil act in order to be guilty. Superman didn't do anything like that, just the opposite he saved the World. Blaze explicitly says the Rider only goes after the wicked.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Now you're just being pathetic. Are you really trying to argue that Ghost Rider wasn't KOed by the grenade even though we see him wake up in a hospital in the next shot?

Originally posted by Psychotron

No, it was the stare. We see the Rider grab his head, look at him, and kill him while the Penance stare sound effects are going on. His face ended up looking like that after he was already dead, and the Rider tossed him on the road. It was due to decay, it wasn't burned. We see a lingering show where his face is normal, and then decays to what you posted. Makes sense since his powers were all about decay. The eyes of the victims of the PS don't light up in the second movie as it doesn't burn their souls but instead the Rider consumes them.

Originally posted by Psychotron

I don't think you understand what the word guilty means. It has nothing to do with whether you feel bad about something or not. You must commit some kind of crime or evil act in order to be guilty. Superman didn't do anything like that, just the opposite he saved the World. Blaze explicitly says the Rider only goes after the wicked.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Considering that we didn't see his KO onscreen, and how such scenes of him waking up later to find himself in bandages can be misleading in the previous movie, yes I am.

No it wasn't. Screencaps were posted showcasing the difference between damage caused by hellfire and by the Stare. Lol, are you actually relying on similar sound effects to claim that it was the Stare attack? The suck their souls part is just rhetorical hyperbole imo, but even if you want to entertain that argument, it's never mentioned to be the PS in that movie, so it isn't. Therefore we go according to the PS of the previous movie.

I do so in the context of how it is applicable to the Rider's victims. Which is something that you clearly don't understand, or at least refuse to for some reason. I've already provided Blaze's narrative as to how a victim becomes vulnerable to the Rider's power, I have also explained why the Rider despite this condition doesn't go about randomly frying people for the sin of stealing a baseball or cheating on their mid-term. You wanting to ignore that piece of evidence is on you, not me.

This is retarded. Absolutely 100% retarded. You should throw your PC out the window for writing so completely stupid. We saw the KO, it was when he was hit by 2 grenades, failed to get up, and the bad guys kidnapped the spawn of the Devil. There's your KO.

That's bullshit. The eyes of the victims of the Penance stare don't show anything in Spirit of Vengeance and you know it. Here's proof:
http://i.imgur.com/QjhuzTg.jpg

You must have some problem with reading comprehension. The Rider goes berserk when there's someone who has done something wrong around him, yes, but Superman has done nothing wrong. We've never seen Superman cheat on his midterms, we've never seen him download movies, we've never seen him do anything wrong. Ghost Rider has nothing to punish him for, he doesn't fit even his insane definition of wickedness.